What happened to all the talk about how it was a huge mistake to let Turkoglu leave and bring VC in? I haven't heard about it in awhile, I'm just curious where it went. Can the Turkoglu lovers on this site fill me in on what happened to Turkoglu > VC?
I always liked the mismatch he brought to the Magic as the gimmick. Carter was the better player, but was more likely to settle for jumpers than Hedo, and less likely to be the mismatch or gimmick, which I figured Orlando's offense was predicated upon. Carter has fit in nicely. Hedo, without Howard, Nelson and Lewis, is not nearly as effective a player...
VC was in a half-season long slump. Not surprising since they call him half-man half-season. Lucky for the Magic the half of the season he decided to play was the second half.
For all the talk about VC's shot selection, he's shooting 42.5% this year, better than Turk's % last year. Idk why people act like Turk is some high efficiency player who never forces up jumpers.
People don't seem to realize Orlando's gimmick would have lost in the 2nd round if KG was healthy. Boston had no athleticism up front to match up with it so it happened to work. If not for that injury Orlando loses in the 2nd round and trades for VC because they need to.
I understand why people said it..I argued against the pro-Turkoglu guys all Summer, but I understand why..people that don't watch these teams get their "information" from the media and opinion of the general public..
Vince is my favorite non-Spur, I defend him in most arguments, but I understand why they said it..the media portrays him as a guy that quit on his team, a ballhog, and a guy that doesn't know how to play winning basketball..he got this bull reputation because of the Toronto media, the Raptors organization and the obsessive and annoying Raptor fanbase..so it's not surprising at all to see the fans believing this about him..
I continued to argue even when VC was struggling earlier..I said it was due to chemistry and SVG not knowing how to work around his game, but they continued to argue that he's a ballhog that doesn't pass and takes the ball away from his teammates..another misconception about him..he also went through the worst slump of his career, where he was battling injuries to his ankles and his shoulder..if it wasn't for that horrible month, his efficiency would be A LOT higher..it doesn't matter though, he's been amazingly efficient in February and March, hopefully it continues..
Vince and Nelson had trouble playing together because they both need the ball in their hands(this is something Turk didn't have to deal with, since Nelson missed most of the season when it mattered), but they've built chemistry and they play well together now..
SVG didn't know how to use VC..Lawrence Frank came in and it looks like he made an impact with his analysis and experience with Vince's game..
Turkoglu has always been overrated, I've been saying it forever, I don't know why people think so highly of him..he thrived in Orlando's system and it masked his many weaknesses as a player..also, since people always underrate Dwight Howard, it had an effect on overrating Turkoglu when Orlando made the Finals last year..
Now VC is playing great basketball, he's at the point where they actually want him to shoot more often, he's been a top 5-7 clutch player in the NBA this season IIRC(he's always been a great clutch shooter anyways), he's been their leader and has had an influence on Dwight's improvement(according to Dwight)..
Turkoglu is a POS that has very little impact on games and parties instead of playing..
Funny how misconceptions and media bias work..
It took him half a season to find his nitch. Now that he has, the Magic are running on all cylinders.
People fell in love with Turkoglu because he was able to exploit his 7 inch height advantage over Delonte West in the ECF, for some reason that made him a franchise player in people's minds.
When carter drives to the basket hes a lot more effective & makes the Magic even harder to guard. If he does that a lot in the playoffs then Orl gonna be a scary team. They been playing like the best team in the league lately IMO
Vince was driving a lot to get out of his slump and get into a rhythm in games..he hasn't been driving as much lately due to injuries, and I don't expect him to start again until the playoffs, which is the smart strategy..
Orlando is just an extremely scary team..as a VC fan, so somebody that wants Orlando to win it all since the Spurs won't, I'm not worried about Vince, I'm worried about Rashard "$$$" Lewis..
Another case of DOK being racist, imho.
I always thought it was funny that people cited Orlando's "matchup problems" as the reason they beat the Cavs.
Failing to consider of course, that the Cavs were the ones who created the matchup problem for themselves in the first goddamn place by putting a point guard on a ball-handling small forward, while their own first team defense small forward roamed around on a 6'2 streetballer.
And then their fans had the nerve to complain about matchups.
Psssh, Turk>VC easily. Turk was so clutch while Carter has been a weak, jump-shooting phony pretty much this whole year. Dwight Howard makes everyone look good, that's the only reason Vince looks better.
If you can't tell, not serious.... Turkoglu is teh suck.
Yeah, Turk was clutch as , he came through against the Lakers even when they had a legitimate SF to guard him.
And without KG's injury they don't make it out of the 2nd round.
Without Larry Hughes, the 2007 Cavs never make the finals. Should they have held onto him?
Sigh, I guess I wasn't hateful enough. Fake-trolling is not my strong suit (see white-text under previous post). Anyway, good to see other team fans taking note. It was pretty tiresome all off-season and throughout the year hearing how important Turk was and how we would be so much worse without him. While he was instrumental to our success, he was replaceable and not as clutch as people make him out to be. For all his praise during the Cavs series, he only shot 39%. Carter should do just fine.
A few things: Turkoglu was the right fit for that Magic team last year with his passing and the way it opened up the floor for their shooters, in addition to the fact that he was a pretty clutch shooter himself in crunch-time situations. Based on who they played in the playoffs and the way he stepped up with Jameer's injury, you can't tell me that they would've gotten to the Finals without him. Chemistry is a precious thing in basketball, and you tinker with it cautiously and at your own peril.
Now having said that, it was the right decision in retrospect to let him go rather than to give a 31-year-old coming off his best season in a contract year 4/55 or whatever it was he got, since you couldn't expect him to do that again, especially when you consider that his performance has been up and down his whole career.
Carter is the better player, and Otis Smith did a good job of getting him as a replacement, but he's also a guy who's clutch/anti-clutch. He's got a crazy # of game-winning shots in his career, but he's also a guy with a history of quitting on his teams, half-assing it and tipping off the opposing team's bench to what plays his team is running, so he's not exactly a guy I would necessarily want to trust for a deep playoff run. Most of the Turk > VC arguments center around the fact that VC has been a piece of for a large portion of his career. Without that angle, I can't think of an argument for Hedo over Carter.
Fortunately for Orlando, they're so deep and talented that they don't need him to be The Man in the playoffs, they just need him to be able to take advantage of the space and freedom that comes with having so many other good shooters and scorers on the floor.
-Carter never quit on his team, misconeption and false editing by TNT, which John Thompson later admitted..
-That "tip off" to the other team turned out to be bull , obviously..
The "half-assing" part is true, that's Vince's main flaw along with his shot selection, but Turkoglu was often accused of "half-assing" by Magic fans as well..
I wasn't basing it off whatever interview you're citing, I'm talking about how he played like dog his last few months in Toronto and then magically turned back into Vince Carter right after he got to New Jersey.
The Seattle SuperSonics didn't seem to think so.-That "tip off" to the other team turned out to be bull , obviously..
Na, the point of it is to draw a reaction. Well done, you successfully trolled (I'm being serious).
I iz teh gReatEst!
Of course they needed him to go to the finals, they also needed a season ending injury to KG and a re ed coaching decision to have Lebron guard Alston and Delonte West guard Turk. It's not like they made the finals because they were a powerhouse to be a reckoned with. Their front office knew that finals birth was somewhat fluky so they made improvements.
Umm..if you think Vince Carter is going to help the Magic get back to the finals then more power to you
If you think the Magic would have beaten a healthy Celtics team in the 2nd round last year, or if you think they'd be able to get past this current Cavs team with Turkoglu instead of Carter then you have frontal lobe damage
My point is that in the stretch run he was their second-best player last year. I don't disagree with the decision to let him walk, but chemistry is a precious thing in basketball. Sometimes a lesser player is a better fit for a team - I think the Lakers would be just fine with Dirk/Kobe, but Gasol's low-post game is a better fit for them.
My point is they needed a bunch of lucky to happen for a "stretch run". The Celtics without KG and the Cavs were both two putrid teams at defending the pick and roll, so bad that Orlando got to basically pick and roll their way to the finals. The Carter trade was a gamble they needed to make, since they'll have to play legit defenses down the stretch and will need a guy like VC who can close games
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