I hope Michael Schiavo...

[The Ressurrected One]

...and the Florida Judiciary are having trouble sleeping.

After 10 years, brain-damaged Buffalo-area fireman makes astounding recovery

Herbert, who will turn 44 Saturday, was fighting a house fire Dec. 29, 1995, when the roof collapsed, burying him under debris. After going without air for several minutes, Herbert was comatose for 2 1/2 months and has undergone therapy ever since.

News accounts in the days and years after his injury describe Herbert as blind and with little memory, if any. Video shows him receiving physical therapy but apparently unable to communicate and with little awareness of his surroundings.

Same type of injury -- oxygen deprivation -- as Terry Schiavo. Same prognosis.

As the President said of Ms. Schiavo, "When in doubt, choose life."

Thank God Mr. Herbert's family decided not to starve him to death. I hope we've all learned a lesson.

[travis2]

I hope we've all learned a lesson.

Yeah. Kill 'em quick before anyone has the chance to about it.

[The Ressurrected One]

Yeah. Kill 'em quick before anyone has the chance to about it.

Okay, not what I was going for...but, point taken.

[DrRich]

Funny how this happens just weeks after Terri's death. Could it be someone (from Above) telling people you screwed up?

[travis2]

Okay, not what I was going for...but, point taken.

Should have ended with [/sarcasm]. Just to be clear.

[Useruser666]

So everyone who is barely conscious should be kept alive even though only a super slim percentage of them will ever improve in condition? And those that have told their family that they didn't want to be kept in such way should have those wishes ignored?

[The Ressurrected One]

Then, the "Therapist" had this, this morning:

Judge Greer Orders Brain-Damaged Firefighter To Move To Florida

Feeding tube to be inserted upon arrival, says court

Miami--Acting on the testimony of medical officials in New York, Pinellas County court judge, George Greer, has ordered brain-injured firefighter, George Herbert and his family, to move to Florida immediately.

"The court finds the testimony of Dr. Jamil Amhed to be especially compelling," said judge Greer in his written opinion. "His references to Mr. Herbert's 'almost being in a persistent vegetative coma state,' require the immediate enactment of an unfortunate and prolonged legal battle. The court orders Mr. Herbert to become the recipient of liquidated food through a feeding tube, until this court later deems it appropriate to deprive him of said nourishment."

Herbert was injured in a house fire in 1995, and has not spoken a word. Saturday, he awoke, asked for his wife, and engaged them heartily for the next 14 hours, until he fell asleep. Since then he has lapsed in and out of varying degrees of lucidity. Democratic activists say that despite Mr. Herbert's conversational bent in recent days, that his animations and dialogue are really a cry for help.

“Judge Greer’s foresight is simply amazing,” said California senator, Barbara Boxer. “By getting this man his needed nourishment through a feeding tube, it brings the whole unfortunate situation into focus. That tube needs to be there for the sake of everyone—the family, the judges. When the time comes to remove it, we won’t have to do the legal backtracking of having it installed, only to immediately take it right back out—like taping off a house before you paint.”

[The Ressurrected One]

So everyone who is barely conscious should be kept alive even though only a super slim percentage of them will ever improve in condition? And those that have told their family that they didn't want to be kept in such way should have those wishes ignored?

Yep...unless it's in writing or was said in front of more than one person.

Particularly if the person, to whom you've allegedly expressed this wish, has abandoned you for another woman, started another family, and fought tooth and nail to have you killed in spite of the remainder of your family's desire to continue caring for you.

Yeah...even though.

[Useruser666]

Sorry, I don't believe in that.

[The Ressurrected One]

Sorry, I don't believe in that.

In what?

[Useruser666]

That statement. I would change the le of this thread to, "I hope people stay out of the personal business of others who they know nothing about."

[The Ressurrected One]

That statement. I would change the le of this thread to, "I hope people stay out of the personal business of others who they know nothing about."

So, if I want to kill my unruly, undisciplined, ADHD, bipolar child; it's nobody's business but my own?

[Useruser666]

Uh, that is not the same as the Shiavo case.

[The Ressurrected One]

Uh, that is not the same as the Shiavo case.

No, but it is in line with your "leave-my-ass-alone-and-let-me-do-whatever-I-want" sentiment.

So, where do you draw the line?

Me, I say if there's any doubt, choose life. And, in Terry Schiavo's case, there was a butt-load of doubt over whether or not her wishes were being followed.

Further, in light of the remarkable recovery of Mr. Herbert, it seems a crying shame that we so easily allowed Terry Schiavo to be put to death.

[jalbre6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/condi....ap/index.html

"Certain medications had shown promise in Dr. Jamil Ahmed's more recently brain-damaged patients, drugs normally used to treat Parkinson's disease, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and depression. He gave them to Herbert."

"The drug combination, he said, was meant to stimulate neurotransmitters, which brain cells use to communicate with one another."

Does this mean that since Herbert's wife was willing to try an experimental drug therapy that all of a sudden Schaivo didn't exhaust every avenue?

[The Ressurrected One]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/condi....ap/index.html

"Certain medications had shown promise in Dr. Jamil Ahmed's more recently brain-damaged patients, drugs normally used to treat Parkinson's disease, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and depression. He gave them to Herbert."

"The drug combination, he said, was meant to stimulate neurotransmitters, which brain cells use to communicate with one another."

Does this mean that since Herbert's wife was willing to try an experimental drug therapy that all of a sudden Schaivo didn't exhaust every avenue?

Yep. That's exactly what it means...

[Useruser666]

No, but it is in line with your "leave-my-ass-alone-and-let-me-do-whatever-I-want" sentiment.

So, where do you draw the line?

Me, I say if there's any doubt, choose life. And, in Terry Schiavo's case, there was a butt-load of doubt over whether or not her wishes were being followed.

Further, in light of the remarkable recovery of Mr. Herbert, it seems a crying shame that we so easily allowed Terry Schiavo to be put to death.

An ADHD child is not being kept alive by feeding tubes or respitory equipment. I have seen a loved one on a feeding tube. They were conscious and weren't in the position Shiavo was. If you were in the husband's position, and by the law had every right to decide her fate, should it not then be up to him?

What if you have a living will that says you don't want to be kept alive, yet when put in a position such as Shiavo's, your family protests to keep you alive? What to do then?

I didn't see this case as man trying to kill his wife to go have some affair with another woman, or cash in a will. She had been given more than a reasonable amount of time to recover. He went through the proper legal channels to forfill her wishes. Things like this should never become over blown media affairs. The case was judged properly before it was weighed in the court of public opinion.

[The Ressurrected One]

An ADHD child is not being kept alive by feeding tubes or respitory equipment. I have seen a loved one on a feeding tube. They were conscious and weren't in the position Shiavo was. If you were in the husband's position, and by the law had every right to decide her fate, should it not then be up to him?

Okay first of all, what is "respitory" equipment? And, second, the feeding tube was the only medical intervention being used with Ms. Schiavo -- and, it is hardly considered an "extraordinary" measure to sustain life. As you said, you have seen a conscious relative with such an apparatus.

What if you have a living will that says you don't want to be kept alive, yet when put in a position such as Shiavo's, your family protests to keep you alive? What to do then?

I think the relevant point here is that Ms. Schiavo didn't have a living will. Should she be punished for that oversight on her husband's sayso alone?

I didn't see this case as man trying to kill his wife to go have some affair with another woman, or cash in a will. She had been given more than a reasonable amount of time to recover. He went through the proper legal channels to forfill her wishes. Things like this should never become over blown media affairs. The case was judged properly before it was weighed in the court of public opinion.

A) ...reasonable time...? Define.

B) ...legal channels...? We agree what he did was legal. The whole discussion is about whether is was moral, ethical, or should be legal.

C) ...forfill her wishes...? Prove that.

D) ...Things like this should never become over blown media affairs...? Well, if her mother and father had been allowed to assume care for Ms. Schiavo, it wouldn't have.

[exstatic]

Left is a normal brain. Right is Schiavo's. Anything dark is just spinal fluid. The aggressive drug therapy used on the firefighter was to stimulate neuron connections. I think there actually have to be neurons present for this to happen.

[The Ressurrected One]

Left is a normal brain. Right is Schiavo's. Anything dark is just spinal fluid. The aggressive drug therapy used on the firefighter was to stimulate neuron connections. I think there actually have to be neurons present for this to happen.

Since you're not a physician and I'm not inclined to take your word for it...I'd like to see the firefighters brain as well.

[Useruser666]

Okay first of all, what is "respitory" equipment? And, second, the feeding tube was the only medical intervention being used with Ms. Schiavo -- and, it is hardly considered an "extraordinary" measure to sustain life. As you said, you have seen a conscious relative with such an apparatus.

I think the relevant point here is that Ms. Schiavo didn't have a living will. Should she be punished for that oversight on her husband's sayso alone?

A) ...reasonable time...? Define.

B) ...legal channels...? We agree what he did was legal. The whole discussion is about whether is was moral, ethical, or should be legal.

C) ...forfill her wishes...? Prove that.

D) ...Things like this should never become over blown media affairs...? Well, if her mother and father had been allowed to assume care for Ms. Schiavo, it wouldn't have.

A resonable amount of time passed since there were plenty of doctors that came forward and declared Shiavo would not recover.

If you don't think a husband should be able to forfill his braindead wife's wishes then contact your congressman. If the husband says that she indicated that's what she wanted, then it's NONE of your business to say otherwise. He was the guardian of her at that point in time, and he should make the decisions.

The mother and father didn't have the right to assume care for Terry. It should be decided in a court of public opinion. It is a private family matter to be resolved by her husband, her guardian. He knew that's not what she would have wanted, and fought for her wishes to be carried out. If the court had ruled that the parents were the guardians, then their wishes would have been carried out. It's as simple as that.

[SPARKY]

Left v Right
Right v Left
Left
Right

[MannyIsGod]

Left v Right

Right v Left
Left
Right

A ingMen

[samikeyp]

Who are we to tell her husband that is not what his wife wanted? Sorry, I don't think that is fair. When you get married, you assume responsiblity for your spouse. My wife and I discussed this at length and we would not want to continue in that state. I think those wishes should be respected. No one knows what is better for my wife than I and vice versa. I would do what is best for her in accordance to her wishes and doomed be he who tried to tell me otherwise.

One thing we all forgot in this post....Best wishes to that man and his family now that he is back with them.

[MannyIsGod]

One thing we all forgot in this post....Best wishes to that man and his family now that he is back with them.

Yes, once again death has been used for political gain.