So... eventually, robots/automation will take up more and more jobs

[MiamiHeat]

then what?

The obvious path every company will take will be to reduce costs of operation.

Invest in robot/automation/computers = fire the 3 workers that did those jobs before.


Eventually, as technology progresses, more and more jobs will be lost to technology.

So, what will we do? The current model cannot stand forever. It's obsolete.

Any ideas?

[boutons_deux]

in an economy where manufacturing is declining and outsourced to Asia, and where the economy has been predominantly a service economy for decades, es like you don't have much of future.

jobs are just another input for capitalists, just another input to be minimized, "cost reduced", no matter what the human and societal cost is.

Productivity is up a bunch right now, with neo-feudal employees, wage slaves, complaining about being forced (intimidated) to work longer and harder for the same pay. 8 millions jobs still lost, and millions of those jobs aren't coming back, and certainly not at the same salary level. Not a situation where an employee can rebel at the crack of the employer's whip.

It's basically just another tactic how corps and capitalists over everybody else while empowering and enriching themselves.

[Stringer_Bell]

I'd rather pay American Robots for honest work than Illegal Immigrants.

By then, the GOP is in charge and can keep the companies taxes low while the companies don't have to worry about medical insurance for its robots or offering settlements for accidents on the job. THIS WILL BE AWESOME!!!

[angrydude]

the amount of people employed by manufacturing isn't what you should be looking at.

The amount we export is.

If we aren't exporting more, and all those people lost their jobs, then we'd have a problem. Except that wouldn't happen as it those owners would be pretty friggin stupid to invest all that capital into their company for no return on their investment.

The goal is to produce more stuff so we can be richer. Not so we can all have jobs in manufacturing.

All those people can go get jobs in retail stores selling the stuff. Stuff will be cheaper so they won't have to make as much to enjoy the same amount of stuff.

[Homeland Security]

then what?

The obvious path every company will take will be to reduce costs of operation.

Invest in robot/automation/computers = fire the 3 workers that did those jobs before.


Eventually, as technology progresses, more and more jobs will be lost to technology.

So, what will we do? The current model cannot stand forever. It's obsolete.

Any ideas?

Kill the excess humans.

[MiamiHeat]

We aren't talking just about manufacturing jobs here.

Technology will continue to replace jobs in EVERY field. Nothing will be safe.

Medical staffs in operating rooms? No need for 10 people in the room when a robotic arm/computer setup will reduce the amount of humans to 5.

For instance, the other day I noticed the garbage truck early in the morning. There used to be 2 men hanging onto the back of the truck, who would get off at every stop and pick up the garbage cans.

now? There is a truck with a robotic arm, controlled by the driver. What used to be a job for 3-4 men, is now a job for 1 man with an upgraded truck.


This isn't just about manufacturing jobs.... it's every field...

We're on a collision course to mass unemployment....

[Wild Cobra]

then what?

The obvious path every company will take will be to reduce costs of operation.

Invest in robot/automation/computers = fire the 3 workers that did those jobs before.


Eventually, as technology progresses, more and more jobs will be lost to technology.

So, what will we do? The current model cannot stand forever. It's obsolete.

Any ideas?

It's true, but not harmful. The same reduction in the price of goods allows for the buying power of people to increase. A bigger economy is generated, creating more jobs of different types out there. The problems lie in the way government gets involved. They base CPI indexes, etc. on figures that are decreasing in price. Rather than the public seeing benefit from such things, we don't. Employers use these CPI figures for COLA raises and we ell end up getting behind.

I have been involved this field for years. I am a technician that maintains and repairs automation equipment. I never counted, but I will assume the equipment that there is one technician and twelve technicians for every 100 or more jobs in the past before our product was automated. That doesn't count the computer programmers, design engineers, etc. getting paid for making such things. The number or low skilled jobs are dramatically reduced, and the high skill jobs are increased.

The problem isn't reducing one type of job. It's that the federal, state, and local governments keep taking more and more of the economic grease in taxes.

[Wild Cobra]

We aren't talking just about manufacturing jobs here.

Technology will continue to replace jobs in EVERY field. Nothing will be safe.

Medical staffs in operating rooms? No need for 10 people in the room when a robotic arm/computer setup will reduce the amount of humans to 5.

For instance, the other day I noticed the garbage truck early in the morning. There used to be 2 men hanging onto the back of the truck, who would get off at every stop and pick up the garbage cans.

now? There is a truck with a robotic arm, controlled by the driver. What used to be a job for 3-4 men, is now a job for 1 man with an upgraded truck.


This isn't just about manufacturing jobs.... it's every field...

We're on a collision course to mass unemployment....

And rather ran garbage collection costs skyrocketing, you have more money to spend elsewhere supporting other jobs. If your garbage rates go up $10 a month, that's $10 a month less you have to spend elsewhere, supporting other jobs.

[MiamiHeat]

And rather ran garbage collection costs skyrocketing, you have more money to spend elsewhere supporting other jobs. If your garbage rates go up $10 a month, that's $10 a month less you have to spend elsewhere, supporting other jobs.

and the places I go and spend those $10 will become more and more streamlined with technology until they can operate at a bare minimum of human workers. in every field, not just lower rung, manual labor.

just because I have an extra $10 to spend doesn't mean businesses are going to hire humans.

it still does not solve the problem

[Wild Cobra]

and the places I go and spend those $10 will become more and more streamlined with technology until they can operate at a bare minimum of human workers. in every field, not just lower rung, manual labor.

just because I have an extra $10 to spend doesn't mean businesses are going to hire humans.

it still does not solve the problem

Well, the economy isn't a zero sum game anyway. We have more problems with outsourcing taking jobs than we do automation. At least automation creates higher paying jobs. Been an automation tech since 1994. Seen quite a bit. Not only is more product made cheaper, but many things we have today simply wouldn't exist without it.

Are you Amish by chance?

[MiamiHeat]

Well, the economy isn't a zero sum game anyway. We have more problems with outsourcing taking jobs than we do automation. At least automation creates higher paying jobs. Been an automation tech since 1994. Seen quite a bit. Not only is more product made cheaper, but many things we have today simply wouldn't exist without it.

Are you Amish by chance?

I am in favor of automation/computerization etc

what I am on about is what are we going to do about unemployment when technology seeps into every industry imaginable and puts a lot of people out of work

what do you think the US should do? the current model will not work long-term. there just won't be enough jobs to go around

[NFGIII]

in an economy where manufacturing is declining and outsourced to Asia, and where the economy has been predominantly a service economy for decades, es like you don't have much of future.

jobs are just another input for capitalists, just another input to be minimized, "cost reduced", no matter what the human and societal cost is.

Productivity is up a bunch right now, with neo-feudal employees, wage slaves, complaining about being forced (intimidated) to work longer and harder for the same pay. 8 millions jobs still lost, and millions of those jobs aren't coming back, and certainly not at the same salary level. Not a situation where an employee can rebel at the crack of the employer's whip.

It's basically just another tactic how corps and capitalists over everybody else while empowering and enriching themselves.

Proletariats of the world unite!



And so in capitalist society we have a democracy that is curtailed, wretched, false, a democracy only for the rich, for the minority. The dictatorship of the proletariat, the period of transition to communism, will for the first time create democracy for the people, for the majority, along with the necessary suppression of the exploiters, of the minority.

Lenin, State and Revolution (1917)

We aren't talking just about manufacturing jobs here.

Technology will continue to replace jobs in EVERY field. Nothing will be safe.

Medical staffs in operating rooms? No need for 10 people in the room when a robotic arm/computer setup will reduce the amount of humans to 5.

For instance, the other day I noticed the garbage truck early in the morning. There used to be 2 men hanging onto the back of the truck, who would get off at every stop and pick up the garbage cans.

now? There is a truck with a robotic arm, controlled by the driver. What used to be a job for 3-4 men, is now a job for 1 man with an upgraded truck.


This isn't just about manufacturing jobs.... it's every field...

We're on a collision course to mass unemployment....

We're also on a collison course with change on a massive scale and at break neck speed. But the course of human history it littered with this. It's just now the doubling of human knowledge is every 18 months and that will probably change, too. The job of everyone is to adapt to it and move forward. Unfortunately that is easier said than done. Many are going to be left behind and that is sad. It seems that the human psych dosen't incorporate this kind of rapid change very well. We need to take baby steps. I expect social upheveal in the next several generations to be pretty violent, especially if global warming plays out taxing the planet's resources and causing shortages worldwide. But that remains to be seen. But what is happening is the shifting of resources and labor to best ultilize it's efficiency. And all based on bottom line profits. Capitalism is the most widely chosen economic model but is seems that it needs some tweaking in order to adapt to the changing climate, too.

Personally I would like to see a bigger share of the wealth spread around. Not neccessarily through government edit but somehow through an evolutionary change in perspective about our roles in society and how we are all intertwined. (Yes, I know i dream at times) Similar to the environment. We destroy our ecosystem in the lust for material wealth and prosperity and ultimately we screw ourselves. WIth what I see as a shrinking middle class and the disparity of wealth between rich and poor these two are metaphoricaly freight trains approaching each other from opposite directions. Unless diverted a massive collison is eminent. When is the question.

[Nbadan]

Perhaps we will eventually have to evolve to that 'Star Trek' society where there is no currency and people are not preoccupied with material wealth....

[The Cougar]

Perhaps we will eventually have to evolve to that 'Star Trek' society where there is no currency and people are not preoccupied with material wealth....

wait wait Its human nature, cause even if 99.9999% of the world becomes all kumbaya, it just take that tiny percentage to it all up. Ironically 99.9999% of the earth population is poor

[NFGIII]

Perhaps we will eventually have to evolve to that 'Star Trek' society where there is no currency and people are not preoccupied with material wealth....

Bring on the replicators. I've been told I need some new threads.

And with the price of produce going up that will come in handy.

But on a serious note as society evolves so does it's technology. Eventually we will be able to feed and cloth most of our people if not find another "New World(s)" out there. Always have hope in the future.

[EmptyMan]

Perhaps we will eventually have to evolve to that 'Star Trek' society where there is no currency and people are not preoccupied with material wealth....

Yeah, Picard was an asshole when he would try and force neighboring planets to join the Federation and then when they refused he would mock them for their materialism and violence.

[Blake]

then what?

The obvious path every company will take will be to reduce costs of operation.

Invest in robot/automation/computers = fire the 3 workers that did those jobs before.


Eventually, as technology progresses, more and more jobs will be lost to technology.

So, what will we do? The current model cannot stand forever. It's obsolete.

Any ideas?

[Blake]

Yeah, Picard was an asshole when he would try and force neighboring planets to join the Federation and then when they refused he would mock them for their materialism and violence.

[panic giraffe]

let the robots do the menial .

and we can do the that requires a human, like create and design new robots.

art is something a robot cannot do.

also, by allowing the robots to the the menial work, we can explore vast regions that we haven't been able to since we were too busy with that . eventually though, we will have to turn into a society living aboard huge space ships traveling and consuming everything in sight and then on to the next. eventually we'll run out of resources here.

[Wild Cobra]

I am in favor of automation/computerization etc

what I am on about is what are we going to do about unemployment when technology seeps into every industry imaginable and puts a lot of people out of work

what do you think the US should do? the current model will not work long-term. there just won't be enough jobs to go around

The current model doesn't work because we have too many outsourced jobs. Too many low wage immigrants flooding the job market as well.

Almost everything in the economy can, and should be thought of as "supply and demand." Automation should make us richer, wanting more and more goods with our new-found wealth. Instead, the supply of goods is coming from elsewhere, and they are getting our wealth. It doesn't matter what we do if we don't stop the serious outsourcing imbalance we have in trade. Automation is not the problem Someone is just diverting attention from the real problems.

[Wild Cobra]

Bring on the replicators.

[ElNono]

The current model doesn't work because we have too many outsourced jobs. Too many low wage immigrants flooding the job market as well.

Almost everything in the economy can, and should be thought of as "supply and demand." Automation should make us richer, wanting more and more goods with our new-found wealth. Instead, the supply of goods is coming from elsewhere, and they are getting our wealth. It doesn't matter what we do if we don't stop the serious outsourcing imbalance we have in trade. Automation is not the problem Someone is just diverting attention from the real problems.

So you want a protectionist economy? What happened with the Free Market?

[Wild Cobra]

So you want a protectionist economy? What happened with the Free Market?

I see you haven't absorbed the things I write.

No. I want a fair playing field in this global economy. We are at a serious disadvantage with the tax laws we play by.

[ElNono]

I see you haven't absorbed the things I write.

No. I want a fair playing field in this global economy. We are at a serious disadvantage with the tax laws we play by.

I read you perfectly. A fair playing field would involve removing subsidies to things like agriculture, and potentially putting vital resources in the hands of other countries. Is that what you really want?
Unless you can force other countries to pay more money to their employees or subject them to the same standards of quality, market monopolies, and every other thing we have (which we can't), you're not going to have a fair playing field. Taxing is a very tiny part of a fairly large equation.

[The Reckoning]

Eventually, as technology progresses, more and more jobs will be lost to technology.

So, what will we do? The current model cannot stand forever. It's obsolete.

Any ideas?

privatize the space industry. with a seemingly infinite amount of resources comes a greater demand for jobs. engineers, architects, consumer services, business, geologists, urban planning, etc. will be in such high demand that menial labor will be a non-issue with using robots. as long as we can keep population in check, we'll be okay.

it'll be interesting when corporations control colonies and what-not, but ill leave the governator to fight them.