Reply With Quote
I was at the game tonight. Just got home.
Un- ing-believable.
I am sick to my stomach. Completely sick to my stomach.
Ump blew the last call of the game and cost him a perfect game...
Last edited by sribb43; 06-02-2010 at 08:07 PM.
I was at the game tonight. Just got home.
Un- ing-believable.
I am sick to my stomach. Completely sick to my stomach.
So many people about the reffing in the NBA--really should watch how horrible the call was. Jim Joyce should be reprimanded and review should be expanded. That was a horrible, horrible, horrible call.
SAFE!!!!!
Poor guy.
that is some mother ing bull . I'm pissed.
Don Denkinger is sitting on his couch going, "Holy , that was a bad call!"
just saw this on SC. unbelievable
Unbelievable!
Way to age yourself.
Of course, I'm doing that by understanding the reference.
Last play of the game. I know it's a long shot but it doesn't seem that crazy in this case to reverse the call. Nothing that happened after that play should count. It sets an interesting precedent, but if it's only on plays that would have been the final play of the game, how often would that really be an issue?
Bingo. MLB needs to grow a pair and do exactly that. It was the LAST ING OUT, overrule the call and declare it a perfect game. NOTHING changes about the outcome or COULD change by overturning the incredibly bad call.
By it being the last out MLB should totally reverse the call and give it to him. But it still sucks for him and the fans because celebrating with your teammates and the fans are part of an accomplishment like that.
If they reverse it now, though, it'll be forever unfairly tainted.
As it is, he's now in the even rarer company of Harvey Haddix and Ernie Shore.
(Howya like them apples, King?)
I had to look those up. From Haddix's wiki entry.
After the game, Haddix received many letters of congratulations and support, as well as one from a Texas A&M fraternity which read, in its entirety on university stationery, "Dear Harvey, Tough ." "It made me mad," recounted Haddix, "until I realized they were right. That's exactly what it was."[1][7][8][9]
I didn't know that. I also didn't know this:
In 1993, Milwaukee's Bob Buhl revealed that the Braves pitchers had been stealing the signs from Pittsburgh catcher Smoky Burgess, who was exposing his hand signals due to a high crouch. From their bullpen, Braves pitchers repeatedly repositioned a towel to signal for a fastball or a breaking ball, the only two pitches Haddix used in the game. Despite this assistance, the usually solid Milwaukee offense managed just the one hit.[1][10] All but one Milwaukee hitter, Aaron, took the signals.[1]
Poor guy. I started a poll on this site almost two years ago on this topic:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107941
Obviously turnout wasn't great. A similar poll on ESPN earlier today (with many more than 4 votes) had 80% of people saying that baseball should add replay for outs.
Terrible call.. though I give the ump credit for admitting that it was such a bad call.
Reversing the call wouldn't -- I think -- be completely unprecedented. In the George Brett Pine Tar game (1983), the umpire ruled Brett out after he hit a go-ahead home run with 2 out in the 9th, finding that he had too much pine tar on his bat. The Royals protested that decision and the AL President reversed the call, making Brett's home run stand and ordering that the rest of the game be played from that point until its conclusion.
There are obvious differences between the situations: Brett was called out on a missed interpretation of a black letter rule and Galarraga got hurt by a judgment call that was incorrect (though the rules do state expressly that a batter is out of a player with the ball touches the base with the ball before the batter does). But I think it would be relatively easy to apply the Brett precedent here. Call the 9th hitter out and rule that nothing that happened after that counts. Actually, that decision does the most good: it gives Galarraga the history that he earned; it absolves Joyce of a terrible call; it saves Trevor Crowe an out. Really, the only cost is John Donald's hit, which wasn't earned anyway.
The stupidity of MLB will never allow this to happen. But I think there is precedent to support a reversal.
True, technically they can reverse the call in the same way they did the Pine Tar game. Unfortunately, that would unfairly take some of the luster off of it.
Supposed someone was chasing DiMaggio's hitting streak, and in game 56 hit a ball that was ruled an error, then after the game the scorer ruled it a hit. Even if the change was the correct call, nobody would feel particularly good about it.
(Actually, I read an article where the official scorer reviewed to play to see if it could be ruled an error on Galarraga, preserving the no-hitting.)
The Pine Tar game is different in that the only reason it is memorable is because of the reversal. Plus, we all know the only reason they reversed the pine tar game was because of Brett's priceless reaction:
Oh, I agree, and I think they won't change the call. I'm not sure that taking the luster off the game is the reason they won't though. I think that the incorrect call will stand mostly because there is a real slippery slope from there. If Galarraga has Donald at 2-2 in the 9th and throws a pitch that is clearly strike 3, but it's called ball 3 and the next pitch is a ball as well, do we reverse? Of course not. If Donald hits a liner to center that Jackson appears to trap, but actually caught, do we reverse? I doubt it. If Donald scores after the incorrect call, there's absolutely no way that the call would be changed.
I think a more direct analogy would be to suppose that Donald had hit in 56 straight games going into last night and Joyce called him safe at the end of the game -- with the tension between a perfect game for Galarraga and a historic hitting streak for Donald, do you change an incorrect call? If we're just talking about historic cir stances making it okay to change an obviously-incorrect call, which of those cir stances is "more historical?" 20 pitchers have thrown perfect games but only 2 (in my hypothetical) would have hit in 56 games and only 1 could have hit in 57 games.
I didn't think of that, but it's a brilliant effort by the scorer.
Well, we'd still have Brett's reaction to entertain us forever if the call had stood; and, curiously, while many remember the events that led to his being called out and his objection, few remember the resumption of the game a few weeks later -- Don Mattingly playing second base and Ron Guidry playing center field?
It loses some luster but it's still preferable to the current situation. This kind of stuff has a lot of people questioning their passion for sports.
If any good has come out of it, it's that Galaraga's composure in the aftermath has been nothing short of inspiring.
All absolutely correct.
That's sort of where I was going. And to be honest, I'm okay with post-hoc machinations for otherwise "meaningless" games like the Pine Tar game. But I like the games with historical significance to be "clean" as much as possible.I think a more direct analogy would be to suppose that Donald had hit in 56 straight games going into last night and Joyce called him safe at the end of the game -- with the tension between a perfect game for Galarraga and a historic hitting streak for Donald, do you change an incorrect call? If we're just talking about historic cir stances making it okay to change an obviously-incorrect call, which of those cir stances is "more historical?" 20 pitchers have thrown perfect games but only 2 (in my hypothetical) would have hit in 56 games and only 1 could have hit in 57 games.
However, a valid reason for overruling the umps in the Pine Tar game vs. Galaraga's game is that the former affected the outcome of the game, while the latter only affected an individual accomplishment. By strict hierarchical "integrity of the game" standards, it's more important to get the win-loss part right.Well, we'd still have Brett's reaction to entertain us forever if the call had stood; and, curiously, while many remember the events that led to his being called out and his objection, few remember the resumption of the game a few weeks later -- Don Mattingly playing second base and Ron Guidry playing center field?
The other thing I forgot about the resumption of the game (but was shwon in the video) was that Billy Martin, brilliant as ever, immediately appealed that Brett hadn't touched all the bases. And the umpires, who were a different crew, produced a signed sworn statement by the original crew stating that yes, he had. Out-friggin-standing! (You should really appreciate that, FWD.)
Now some non-conjectural potential for reversing Joyce?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5246454
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
