Still want to build hundreds of new nuclear reactors?

[RandomGuy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/327178

Cyber security experts say they have identified the world's first known cyber super weapon designed specifically to destroy a real-world target – a factory, a refinery, or just maybe a nuclear power plant.

Could some proponent of nuclear power please address the implications of this?

One of my main concerns with nuclear power is that reactors make very high priority targets. You could have an extremely safe reactor, but when the computer systems get overrun and are functioning in a way that is specifically designed to cause harm, that is a serious concern.

[boutons_deux]

Computer security is always expensive and a hassle, so don't expect infrastructure orgs, like PG&E, etc, to cut their profits by implementing strong security or maintain their infrastructure as 5 nine's, until, like PG&E or BP or Exxon, something like catastrophic happens, like people getting killed.

It's cheaper for the orgs to pay their liability insurance and run with their pants down until they trip. And usually it's not these orgs' employees or mgmt that gets inconvenienced or killed. Dead and maimed people are just capitalism's cost of doing business.

As withWall St having the funds to overpay and suck up so much young intellectual talent to maintain Wall St frauds and gaming the system, criminals motivate their security crackers with much better pay than your garden-variety corporate chair-warming Chief Security Officer and his salary-squished team. aka, asymmetric warfare.

[Wild Cobra]

One would hope that such systems have no online access.

[RandomGuy]

One would hope that such systems have no online access.

The Iranian reactors presumedly targeted had no online access.

That attack was carried out by a simple memory module inserted into a computer system by a contractor.

What happens when you get a disaffected big bad gub'mint hater like Timothy McVeigh being given such a program by a very determined terrorist group with years to prepare?

The problem with nukes is that the price for catastrophic failure is... really catastrophic.

[Wild Cobra]

The Iranian reactors presumedly targeted had no online access.

That attack was carried out by a simple memory module inserted into a computer system by a contractor.

What happens when you get a disaffected big bad gub'mint hater like Timothy McVeigh being given such a program by a very determined terrorist group with years to prepare?

The problem with nukes is that the price for catastrophic failure is... really catastrophic.

Where I work, they are having issues with people using USB drives, plugging in IPODS to charge etc. Out IT section simply disabled the accessible USB ports.

[word]

Still want to build hundreds of new nuclear reactors?

Yes

[Parker2112]

the internet is under attack this is just another version of the scare tactics used by our govt for decades now. Commies, Red Giants, Terrorists, Drug Wars, all an excuse to capture control. You're fed fear to justify the already-determined aims of big govt.

The internet is under attack.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_735365.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_625856.html

dont be scared. The important thing is that we stop living our lives in fear. Fear =control.

[Winehole23]

The other day you were telling us we shouldn't trust the tap water but now you'd have us all calm down.

[Winehole23]

Do you like to spread fear, Parker?

[MannyIsGod]

The other day you were telling us we shouldn't trust the tap water but now you'd have us all calm down.

[DarrinS]

What group of people might want to attack a nuclear reactor?

[clambake]

What group of people might want to attack a nuclear reactor?

the group of people that control your life.

[ElNono]

Actually, this is a very specific threat, and by the looks of the tech used, it was specifically targeting software created by Siemens to do industrial control. That it massively spread in Iran when the worm itself limited the infections, points to specific targeting.

Ultimately it's Siemens that needs to be concerned and provide beefed up security that the OS it's running on does not.

[ElNono]

Actually, the attack was not specifically against Nuclear Reactors, but any facility that used the Siemens control software (which may or may not include Nuclear Reactors). There's really no evidence that the Siemens software would be able to, say, cause any facility to blow up. I would expect actual hardware safewards against conditions like that.

Considering the limited targeting and the type of bugs exploited, I agree this is most likely a state-sponsored worm. The question really is which state would be behind this.

[Parker2112]

The other day you were telling us we shouldn't trust the tap water but now you'd have us all calm down.

What an elementary conclusion. Draw the parallels. What do these two stories have in common? What is my common objection in both? Excessive government control. 1 through science, 1 through fear. 1 commonly used by the left, 1 commonly used by the right. Both effective at usurping the freedoms we would otherwise enjoy. Freedom to decide how and with what we medicate ourselves, and a free internet.

[Parker2112]

[Wild Cobra]

Where's the Red Queen?

[Parker2112]

Where's the Red Queen?

indulge in some of that local hydroponic and she will surely come.

[Parker2112]

Where's the Red Queen?

you should be on the side of the free btw...

[Wild Cobra]

indulge in some of that local hydroponic and she will surely come.

Don't need hydroponics here in Oregon. Just some good volcanic soil.

[SnakeBoy]

The problem with nukes is that the price for catastrophic failure is... really catastrophic.

That's scary. I'm scared. Are we all going to die?

[SnakeBoy]

Even without sabotage all the nuclear reactors will blow up at 12am, January 1st, 10000. Damn extra digit!

[Winehole23]

What an elementary conclusion. Draw the parallels. What do these two stories have in common? What is my common objection in both? Excessive government control. 1 through science, 1 through fear. 1 commonly used by the left, 1 commonly used by the right. Both effective at usurping the freedoms we would otherwise enjoy. Freedom to decide how and with what we medicate ourselves, and a free internet.

So you buy your own bs about the tap water and you believe in a free internet? Cool.

I hope you can afford all your DVDs. Best of luck.

[Cry Havoc]

Software is not the be-all end-all for nuclear control. If a virus caused a situation in the reactor to become serious, it would go into an emergency shutdown state. The reactor core/personnel are able to initiate a S.C.R.A.M. (My favorite acronym ever, btw*) that immediately submerses the core into coolant and halts any further reaction.

Nuclear power plants are some of the safest buildings ever designed, especially post-Chernobyl. The only reason Chernobyl happened is that there weren't nearly as many hardware backups, and workers there took ALL the safeties off the reactor core for a scheduled shutdown... except they didn't actually shut the core down.

There are extremely well-designed hardware failsafes in every nuclear facility now. Are they 100% effective? Probably not. But it's doubtful we will ever see another Chernobyl, at least in our lifetimes.







S.C.R.A.M. - Safety Control Rod Axe Man

[Parker2112]

So you buy your own bs about the tap water and you believe in a free internet? Cool.

I hope you can afford all your DVDs. Best of luck.

all the BS about tap water? Regardless what you think about flouride, it doesnt bother you in the least that:
1. Chinese industry is shipping flouride straight into the public water supply? WTF? How is entrusting the public's health to chinese industrial standards ON A NATIONAL SCALE a conspiracy?
2. That our municipalities are spending millions on "treating" youngsters teeth, when they could easily make the choice to brush and get flouride treatments in most cases?
3. And even if there is only a small percentage of the population who has trouble with ingesting flouride (of which my little brother is one), why the are we forcing these folks to ingest that makes them sick?

Enjoy your preconceived notions, , and enjoy my simultaneous rhetorical/smiley!