Manu... Best Argentinean Player?

[Xikronus]

I take my time and I find out some information about argentinean players...

May be one of the most recently show of them was the last Olimpic Games, where they won the gold medal and beat for the first time in the history to a NBA squad twice !!

I found just two interesting guys that you may not know them.

The first one, and considered the best Argentinean player ever... Is Marcelo Milanesio.

He was the base of the team Atenas from an argie city called Cordoba where he get 7 national les and 3 Latinoamerican, besides his most huge succes was beat Chicago Bulls (With Michel Jordan in) 104-100 in the McDonall's Cup, played in 1997 in Italy. Atenas also won the cup beating Beneton (from Italy) 98-95, Barcelona (from Spain) 110-99 and Chicago Bulls 104-100.

He also won several times the "Gold Basket" award that transformed him in the best player of Latinoamerica.

He, also has plaed in Washington University in 1990/91 but an injury make him return to Argentina, where Atenas had owned his pass.

He retired in 2002 after get the 2nd place in the World Cup disputed in Indianapolis.

The second guy is Fabricio Oberto. Several times champion with Atenas in the argentinean A1 National League, and the SouthAmerican Cup... He also won several times the "European Gold Ball" award that shows him like the best player in Europe, when he had played for Panathinaikos (Greece). Now He is the best weapon of Taugres Ceramica of the spanish A1 but He is close to retired.
He also won the always remembered match agains Chicago Bulls playing for Atenas, and play in North Carolina University in 1991, and also was part of the Boston Celtics in 1994, but an injury make him go back to Argentina where the powerful team of Atenas own his pass.
When the year 1999 was running, and He was playing for Panathinaikos of Greece, New York Kniks make an offert for him to play in the Huge Patrick Edwin, but He was in the best moment of his caree in Europe and close any posibility to emigrate to US.

Two to keep an eye on them:

Luis Scola: He had play in Quilmes, Boca Jrs and Estudiantes in A1 in Argentina, now in Europe (I'm not sure where he's playing now) but Spurs is keeping an eye on him so do we.
Twice champion of the m-20 World Cup consecutives, Plate Medal in the World Cup 2002 in Indianapolis and Gold Medal in the last Olympic Games.

Martin Hermman: He had played in Estudiantes B.B. in A1 Argentinean National League and He's playing in Brescio Calabria in the A1 italian. Popovich keeps an eye on him since the last Olympic Games, so do we...

I hope all my information is good and like you guys.

Cya
Willy

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

He was the base of the team Atenas from an argie city called Cordoba where he get 7 national les and 3 Latinoamerican, besides his most huge succes was beat Chicago Bulls (With Michel Jordan in) 104-100 in the McDonall's Cup, played in 1997 in Italy. Atenas also won the cup beating Beneton (from Italy) 98-95, Barcelona (from Spain) 110-99 and Chicago Bulls 104-100.

By "base" I believe you mean Point Guard. Base is the word for PG in Argentinian Basketball language.

He, also has plaed in Washington University in 1990/91 but an injury make him return to Argentina, where Atenas had owned his pass.

With "his pass" I believe you mean, Atenas owned his rights.

He retired in 2002 after get the 2nd place in the World Cup disputed in Indianapolis.

That is not correct, he retired earlier from the National Team. In 2002, Alejandro Montecchia, Pepe Sanchez and Lucas Victoriano were the Point Guards.

Now He is the best weapon of Taugres Ceramica of the spanish A1 but He is close to retired.
He also won the always remembered match agains Chicago Bulls playing for Atenas, and play in North Carolina University in 1991, and also was part of the Boston Celtics in 1994, but an injury make him go back to Argentina where the powerful team of Atenas own his pass.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but...How can you get so many facts wrong in one paragraph?

- Oberto's current club is Pamesa Valencia, not Tau Ceramica.

- Atenas did not beat the Bulls in the McDonald's open, they played with a lot of heart, but lost the game. Atenas finished the tournament in third place.

- Oberto was in Trainning Camp with the New York Knicks in 1994. He never played for North Carolina.

- He isn't close to retirement. He is 30 years old and he recently said that he would like to give it a shot at the NBA.

Luis Scola: He had play in Quilmes, Boca Jrs and Estudiantes in A1 in Argentina, now in Europe (I'm not sure where he's playing now) but Spurs is keeping an eye on him so do we.
Twice champion of the m-20 World Cup consecutives, Plate Medal in the World Cup 2002 in Indianapolis and Gold Medal in the last Olympic Games.

Scola only played for Ferro Carril Oeste in Argentina. Then moved to Europe where he played for Cabitel Gijón and now plays for Tau Ceramica. Plate medal is silver medal for the sake of English speaking people reading this.

Martin Hermman: He had played in Estudiantes B.B. in A1 Argentinean National League and He's playing in Brescio Calabria in the A1 italian. Popovich keeps an eye on him since the last Olympic Games, so do we...

Don't you mean Walter Herrmann? Who plays for Unicaja Malaga in Spain? Because there was no "Martin Hermman" in the Olympics Roster...

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

And about Milanesio, probably, he was one of the three top Argentinian players ever before Manu. Names like Osvaldo Cadillac, Hernan Montenegro, "Pichi" Campana, they were legends in their time, but those were times that we would be celebrating if we lost to USA Basketball by 20 points. There is no possible point of comparission. Those players were influential in teaching the game to this generation, setting examples, but this current generation has achieved so much that the comparission is not possible. By the time that Oberto, Scola, Nocioni, Sanchez and Manu retire, most of them would go into the list of best Argentinian players ever without second thoughts.

I belive that now there is no possible argument over who is the best Argentinian player.

When Manu retires, he will be the best, unless a younger player achieves all what Manu did (which would be pretty hard, if not impossible).

[WalterBenitez]

Manu is the most loved Argentinean bball player, and perhaps no one could ever reach what he accomplished (be MVP in every league he played, won Italian league, Euroleague, NBA and Olimpics) probably no one will have his desire to win and his mentality and over all his unselfishness and humility.

Previous to him, (Only for mention some) we had a lot of good players that could even played in NBA such us “Pichi” Campana, Marcelo Milanesio and many others, but for some reason they couldn’t, in those days NBA wasn’t as open as is now for foreign talent.

Talking about the present times, Carlos Delfino (Detroit) is very talented and he’s only 21, but he’s very far from Manu in behavior and mentality; “Chapu” Nocioni (Bulls) had Manu’s desire and is very strong, but has no Manu’s skills (or improvisation); Luis Scolla (probably with Spurs during next season) has Manu’s mind, good offensive skills, but he’ll have to improve some defense.

Perhaps Walter Hermmann was (and still is) a good prospect, and also an Spanish MVP (the most compe ive league outside NBA), but he had very hard life, since he lost his mother and fiancé (in a car accident two years ago), last year when he was named South American MVP playing with National Team (he lost his father), despite of that he was mentioned as probably Bobcats player for 2005-6; Finally Oberto is a good player, very good and I don’t know why many NBA’s team asked for him, but no one offered a concrete opportunity.

To finish, Manu is THE MAN, as an Argentinean team-mate said “The safest place to travel in plane is ... next to Manu ... No matter what happen you’ll survive”.

Well, I think these lines will be my homework for my English class, LOL.

[MiNuS]

Best Chef on the Spur's. Damn Argentinian meat is SALTY!
Hypertensive people!No wonder,Ginobili!

[WalterBenitez]

Best Chef on the Spur's. Damn Argentinian meat is SALTY!
Hypertensive people!No wonder,Ginobili!

hum ... Manu has hiden tallents

[SuperManu!!!]

Manu is with no doubt the best of bball players from Argentina. Maybe someday some other argentinean will show up and average more points and rebounds....but the moves that manu makes in the air, the clutch and all his style (put down his head and run ) won't be the same.

[MiNuS]

He is definitely a top 3 international player.

I know Timmy is considered "international" but the Virgin Islands are basically American vacationing playground.

Manu in my opinion beats out Yao and Peja hands and head down!(lol)

If the NBA wanted to sell more T-shirts and NBA merchandise they would
start marketing Manu like CRAZY.Maybe it's not Manu's personality,I don't know?He is definitely a VERY marketable multi-language NBA star.
English,Spanish and Italian. I am pretty sure Manu can learn whatever words in Chinese for "YES and NO" and steal Yao's playground!

[WalterBenitez]

He is definitely a top 3 international player.
If the NBA wanted to sell more T-shirts and NBA merchandise they would
start marketing Manu like CRAZY.Maybe it's not Manu's personality,I don't know?He is definitely a VERY marketable multi-language NBA star.
English,Spanish and Italian. I am pretty sure Manu can learn whatever words in Chinese for "YES and NO" and steal Yao's playground!

LOL, Manu cooks, and some journalist told me he sings very decently.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Best Chef on the Spur's. Damn Argentinian meat is SALTY!
Hypertensive people!No wonder,Ginobili!

doesn't he look up recipies on his sbc broadband highspeed internet?? LOL

[ObiwanGinobili]

He is definitely a VERY marketable multi-language NBA star.
English,Spanish and Italian. I am pretty sure Manu can learn whatever words in Chinese for "YES and NO" and steal Yao's playground!

I've got alot of respect for a guy who doesn't just play for a foriegn team but learns the language, and trys to be a real part of the community.
HOw many americans (men and women) play in europe for Years in some cases, and never try to learn the local language?
manu is one stand up guy.

[hendrix]

I could only compare Ginobili with one other argentine legend (that i saw play a lot), Hector "Pichi" Campana. He was most certanily a better jump shooter than manu (and better 3pt shooter) and excellent athleticity under the rim (not like Manu tho). Heck! I saw "Pichi" doing spectacular dunks while he is 2 or 3 inches shorter than Manu.
The fact that Manu is living in a much better all-around argentine basketball time helped him (and some others) to be recognised globally.
Dont get me wrong, Manu is a monster and is physically superior and much much better defender than "Pichi", but believe me... Campana was a huge player for his size.
In fact, Campana is the only player to win All-Star (argentine league) game MVP, dunk tourney and 3pt shooting tourney. Not in the same All-Star weekend tho
Milanesio was a very good PG (base) with an excellent 3pt % and a monster assist-per-game ratio.
Hernan Montenegro was probably the one with most chances to make an NBA team first, but the "argentine basketball status" at the time played against him (IMHO).
Some other "oldies" are surely worth mentioning (Argentina was the first World Basketball Champion in 1950 after beating USA team) but i didnt see them play.

[timvp]

Interesting thread.

What more can you guys tell us about Lucas Victoriano? That was the player the Spurs were deciding between when they drafted Manu. The urban legend is that the Spurs almost picked Victoriano but went with Manu at the last second.

How good is the guy? I don't think I've ever seen him play.

[Kori Ellis]

Another question for Argentineans ... What do you know about Diego Garcia (the guard who plays for Ben Hur)?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Interesting thread.

What more can you guys tell us about Lucas Victoriano? That was the player the Spurs were deciding between when they drafted Manu. The urban legend is that the Spurs almost picked Victoriano but went with Manu at the last second.

How good is the guy? I don't think I've ever seen him play.

Victoriano is the typical case of a player that could have been much better of what he is now. When he first started to play in the Argentinian league, he was a solid 3 pt shooter, he was fast penetrating, had a good court vision, and once in a while he could dunk. When he moved to Spain, Real Madrid hired him to be their go-to-guy. But a series of factors (injuries, being disliked by one of the coaches, incosistent play, poor club management by the office...etc) moved his status in the club to a role player. He moved to Real Madrid in 1997-98, but didn't make it into the roster on a constant basis until 2002. In Europe clubs can "loan" out players (Something like the Spurs loaning a player for one season to a CBA team, after the season is over, the player returns to the Spurs). He was loaned to four different clubs in the 97-98 period.

This season he was definitely transfered to Casademont Girona, which in the NBA would be like being traded from the Lakers or Spurs to Atlanta or New Orleans. This season he averaged 6.4ppg, 2.9apg, 32% from 3pt., and 50% from 2pt. attempts.

Also, in the National team he lost his projection too. When he played for the Under 19 and under 21 National Teams, he seemed destined to s om, but Pepe Sanchez and Alejandro Montecchia relegated him into the deeper part of the rotation, he only had cameo apperances in the World Championships, and was cut off the roster for the Olympics. Probably because Montecchia has retired from Argentina Basketball, he will get another chance in the Americas Tournament or the South American Championship.

For his complete stats in the Spanish League, follow the link:
http://www.acb.com/stsa jug.php?cod_jugador=A89

(In case you need a translation of the terms, let me know).

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Another question for Argentineans ... What do you know about Diego Garcia (the guard who plays for Ben Hur)?

Well, yesterday Ben Hur were crowned champions of the Argentinian League, after beating Boca Juniors 4-1 in the finals. He scored 21 points in 15 minutes before half-time. Most of the points came from very quick penetrations into the paint. His strongest points are penetrations, he is fearless when attacking the rim (dejá-vu?), he has a good (or decent, depending who you talk to) three point shot, and his defence is good for FIBA standards (in zones, playing between the passing lines a lot of time).

He is mentioned as one of the prospects that could be in the NBA in some time, and in the opposing team, Matías Sandes is also mentioned as a player that could enter into the NBA Draft in 2006. Boca Juniors coach, Sergio Hernandez, will now replace Magnano as the head coach of Argentina Basketball.

Chicago Bulls' Andres Nocioni went to the game, since Ben Hur is from the area where Nocioni was born (and there is good fishing, lol).

[WalterBenitez]

Interesting thread.

What more can you guys tell us about Lucas Victoriano? That was the player the Spurs were deciding between when they drafted Manu. The urban legend is that the Spurs almost picked Victoriano but went with Manu at the last second.

How good is the guy? I don't think I've ever seen him play.

Well Lucas is a good player, and had (still have ?) some back issues, but for far Manu is more talented, play in another possition.

[WalterBenitez]

Another question for Argentineans ... What do you know about Diego Garcia (the guard who plays for Ben Hur)?

GARCÍA Diego , 25 years old, 1.89 mt; Second Scorer of 2005 Champ with Ben Hur (1st Gutierrez Gold Medal in Athenas).

Diego was also electes as the most improved player (2005 ARG's League)

54 Games 885Pts 1611.16 Min Played
16.4ppg
29.8mpg
54.7% 2 pt (11st in ARG's League)
40.4% 3 pt
68.9% FT
2.4 rebounds pg (.4 off)
2.7 assists

ARG's League finals (against Boca Juniors, my team )

Game 1 - 29 min, 12 pts, 2 asst, 1 blk
Game 2 - 35 min, 15 pts, 3 asst,
Game 3 - 34 min, 22 pts, 2 asst,
Game 4 - 35 min, 14 pts, 2 asst,
Game 5 - 38 min, 27 pts, 5 asst

(Remember we play 4q of 10 min each)

His Coach (Lamas, ex Real Madrid from Spain, and ARG National Team) said "He (Diego) is the fastest player in the League, and is very usefull in mostly of game's situation)


Well, now I will have to convinve my teacher to accept this as my english home work,

[hendrix]

Victoriano is the typical case of a player that could have been much better of what he is now. When he first started to play in the Argentinian league, he was a solid 3 pt shooter, he was fast penetrating, had a good court vision, and once in a while he could dunk. When he moved to Spain, Real Madrid hired him to be their go-to-guy. But a series of factors (injuries, being disliked by one of the coaches, incosistent play, poor club management by the office...etc) moved his status in the club to a role player. He moved to Real Madrid in 1997-98, but didn't make it into the roster on a constant basis until 2002. In Europe clubs can "loan" out players (Something like the Spurs loaning a player for one season to a CBA team, after the season is over, the player returns to the Spurs). He was loaned to four different clubs in the 97-98 period.

This season he was definitely transfered to Casademont Girona, which in the NBA would be like being traded from the Lakers or Spurs to Atlanta or New Orleans. This season he averaged 6.4ppg, 2.9apg, 32% from 3pt., and 50% from 2pt. attempts.

Also, in the National team he lost his projection too. When he played for the Under 19 and under 21 National Teams, he seemed destined to s om, but Pepe Sanchez and Alejandro Montecchia relegated him into the deeper part of the rotation, he only had cameo apperances in the World Championships, and was cut off the roster for the Olympics. Probably because Montecchia has retired from Argentina Basketball, he will get another chance in the Americas Tournament or the South American Championship.

For his complete stats in the Spanish League, follow the link:
http://www.acb.com/stsa jug.php?cod_jugador=A89

(In case you need a translation of the terms, let me know).

Yes... everything he said. Agreed. He could have been a great player, but didnt make it... in part for being a sloppy player (dont know if sloppiness apply here ).
Last time I saw him, he was taken too many wrong decisions for a "base". He's the total opposite of "Pepe" Sanchez And I'll take the no-so-much-scorer point guard that Pepe is any day of the week.

[Xikronus]

By "base" I believe you mean Point Guard. Base is the word for PG in Argentinian Basketball language. (He told me base... And I think that was point guard but I decided to post it like my friend told me, just in case.)



With "his pass" I believe you mean, Atenas owned his rights.
(Rights? He's not a book I think ! lol !... You can call that a pass also to your own knowlodge.)



That is not correct, he retired earlier from the National Team. In 2002, Alejandro Montecchia, Pepe Sanchez and Lucas Victoriano were the Point Guards. (That is right, I check with my argentinean fonts... sorry about that)



I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but...How can you get so many facts wrong in one paragraph? (lol ?!)

- Oberto's current club is Pamesa Valencia, not Tau Ceramica. (Sorry about that)

- Atenas did not beat the Bulls in the McDonald's open, they played with a lot of heart, but lost the game. Atenas finished the tournament in third place.
(That is the info I got... 104 atenas - 100 chicago bulls where Jordan didn't play much)

- Oberto was in Trainning Camp with the New York Knicks in 1994. He never played for North Carolina. (Well... This argentinean guy told me that he plays in that University when he was young... I can not put my hand on fire about it)

- He isn't close to retirement. He is 30 years old and he recently said that he would like to give it a shot at the NBA. (I saw an interview after the WC where he said that we wants to retire because his injuries. He also miss one or two games in the last OG because that reason... He may be change his mind, it could happens)



Scola only played for Ferro Carril Oeste in Argentina. Then moved to Europe where he played for Cabitel Gijón and now plays for Tau Ceramica. Plate medal is silver medal for the sake of English speaking people reading this.
(I didn't knew his actual team but the guy that I know play with him in Quilmes when they're youngers. He saids that it was before he play the m21 WC. Besides... Let me teach you some some... Silver = colour/ Plate = Metal // You can call the medals type as you wish... Actually british call Plate to silver medals. I hope it helps your grammatichal sentences)



Don't you mean Walter Herrmann? Who plays for Unicaja Malaga in Spain? Because there was no "Martin Hermman" in the Olympics Roster...

(Sorry in this one, I get confused... He told me Walter but I have not idea why I put Walter ... )

Besides... I love your argentinean sarcasm and your ironic phrases ...

Sorry if I was wrong in somethings but that's what at least I understood that what this guy told me... And He looks like he knows a lot about argentinean basketball... Thats why I decided to post it in here... That's it !

I never so that guy called "pichi" but if you can tell me any web page (english) where I can get some pics and info I would be happy !!

Cya
Willy

[waly.mg]

The Best All Time Argentine Team is:

Milanesio
Ginobili
Campana
Scola
Oberto

[Yerman]

Sin Dudas!!! No Doubt!!!
Manu It's The Best Argentinean Play, And The Best Foreing Player In Nba!!!

Vamos Manu!!!
Vamos Spurs A Las Finales!!!
Go Spurs Into The Finals!!!

[hendrix]

The Best All Time Argentine Team is:

Milanesio
Ginobili
Campana
Scola
Oberto

mmmm... too many player to choose from.
Oberto and Scola are playing together and Magnano thought that Wolkowisky is a better option at center and Oberto playing at 4, but its difficult to know...
There are other great players like Marcelo Nicola (Houston Rockets drafted him in 1993), Hernan Montenegro (drafted in '88 by Sixers) and some others not so much notoriuos as Milanesio, Oberto or Scola.

[hendrix]

And lets not forget that Hugo Sconocchini was once named "The Pampas' Jordan" by the italians some time before Ginobili arrived.

[AlamoSpursFan]

Another question for Argentineans ... What do you know about Diego Garcia (the guard who plays for Ben Hur)?

If "Base" is Argentinian for PG, then Diego Garcia is a Naval PG.

http://www.dg.navy.mil/