Worst HOF member ever?

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6284545

So this guy is a genius for developing an offense that has only succeeded when there's 2+ Hall Of Famers on the team?

[Venti Quattro]

Equal opportunity offense

[KillerMamba]

The guy was a key part of dominant Bulls and Lakers teams. Go do your homework, kid.

[monosylab1k]

Hey! I've got a great strategy on offense! And all you need for it to work is Michael Jordan!

[monosylab1k]

The guy was a key part of dominant Bulls and Lakers teams. Go do your homework, kid.

Key parts are Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe

Tex Winter was a guy who made a ty offense that Phil stupidly believed in. You could use basically any offensive strategy and Jordan would have found a way to win with it.

[TE]

Mono, any news on the next show?

[DMC]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

[monosylab1k]

Ask Jim Cleamons and the Mavericks how well the triangle offense works.

Ask any team Kurt Rambis has coached.

[monosylab1k]

tex winter was "key" part of the Jordan Bulls



they aren't called the Tex Winter Bulls for a reason.

[monosylab1k]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

[Kyle Orton]

Well, like it or not, Michael Jordan didn't get over the hump until he started using the triangle. Neither did Shaq and Kobe. The ty ass 2005-2007 Kobe Lakers didn't make the playoffs till they started using the triangle.

but yeah, the offense itself isn't nearly as impressive as Phil Jackson getting players to buy into it.

[Venti Quattro]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

[Mike Breen]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

mono, PUTS IT IN!!!!

[Kyle Orton]

One thing I will say about the triangle is that it's successful because it doesn't overuse the most overrated play in basketball (the pick and roll) and it doesn't overuse the most overrated position in basketball (the point guard).

[monosylab1k]

Well, like it or not, Michael Jordan didn't get over the hump until he started using the triangle. Neither did Shaq and Kobe. The ty ass 2005-2007 Kobe Lakers didn't make the playoffs till they started using the triangle.

The Bulls had already been using the triangle before Jordan got "over the hump". What got Jordan "over the hump" was Scottie Pippen finally developing into a decent second banana. It had nothing to do with the triangle.

And the Lakers posted a better winning percentage with Rudy T than either of the next two seasons with Phil and the triangle. It wasn't until Rudy "retired" i.e. got sick of dealing with Kobe that the team fell apart.

[Agloco]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

He got you here DMC.....

You and that brick wall just got well acquainted.

[Kyle Orton]

It had something to do with Jordan & Kobe buying into an offense that forced them to trust their teammates. I agree Winter shouldn't be in the HOF, but Jackson got them to trust their teammates more than any other coach could. He felt the triangle was the best way to do that, which counts for something, but not a hall of fame birth.

[DMC]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

I was playing devil's advocate. It could be argued that HOFers are made by great offensive and defensive schemes, not the other way around.

It's more likely, in my opinion, that this scheme was made famous by great players though since, as you pointed out, no one else is winning with it.

I think the Hack-a-Shack has contributed to more wins than the triangle has.

But it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Effectiveness.

[Axe Murderer]

But it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Effectiveness.

That's a good point. When your offense wins 11 championships, you're gonna get in the Fall of Fame regardless of great players or not.

[JoeTait75]

How much did Tex Winter win as a college head coach? I don't think he ever even got to the Final Four at Kansas State, IIRC.

I understand his role in the Bulls dynasty but to be a Hall of Famer you should have more success than he did as the HMFIC.

[Booharv]

He also has a college coaching resume that gets consideration as well. Led Kansas State to the Final Four twice, and has over 450 wins at that level.

[JoeTait75]

He also has a college coaching resume that gets consideration as well. Led Kansas State to the Final Four twice, and has over 450 wins at that level.

I stand corrected. That's a better resume than I thought he had.

[Booharv]

I stand corrected. That's a better resume than I thought he had.

Here's some of his accomplishments at K-State from wikipedia:

• 2 Final Fours (1958, 1964)
• 4 Elite Eights (1958, 1959, 1961,1964)
• 8 Conference Regular Season Championships (1956, 1958-1961, 1963, 1964, 1968)
• 4 Conference Holiday Tournament Championships (1958, 1960, 1961, 1963)
• 4 times ranked in top 6 of final AP and UPI polls (1958, 1959, 1961, 1962)
• Ranked No. 1 in final AP and UPI polls (1959)
• UPI National Coach of the Year (1958)
• Big 7 Coach of the Year (1958)
• 2-time Big 8 Coach of the Year (1959, 1960)

The number 1 AP ranking is from the end of the regular season. He also beat Wilt and Oscar's team in the tourney with lesser players.

[Jose Canseco]

I know he was on all those Bill Russell championship teams and I didn't actually watch him play, but based purely on his career statistics, I have no idea how K.C. Jones is in the HOF as a player. I mean it's mind-boggling.

[Spurminator]

Winter benefited from talent associated with him, just like almost every other basketball Hall of Famer.