Copa America 2011 thread

[diego]

The tournament is a month away, so I thought it would be good to get this started for predictions etc.

Since the tourney is in Argentina, I'd like to see what some of the other argies in the forum think about our team:

1) Is Batista a good coach?
2) Are we the favorite?

I think Batista is not a good coach, but still consider us the favorites- we are at home, we have the best player in the world, and neither Brazil, Uruguay, or Paraguay are particularly strong at the moment (still easily the best of the continent with Chile and Mexico just behind, IMO).

I think our main weakness is goal keeper, followed by center back; and I am worried that Batista is putting a team that is too light and too messi-dependent to break big, tough defensive teams like paraguay, uruguay, and brazil. Still, if messi plays at a high level and we can keep teams on the defensive, coupled with being at home, I think we are slight favorites over the other 3.

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Group A
Argentina
Colombia
Bolivia
Costa Rica

Group B
Brazil
Paraguay
Venezuela
Ecuador

Group C
Uruguay
Chile
Peru
Mexico

[DAF86]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165819 tbh, but I don't care really.

I don't know if Batista is a good coach, he hasn't had the experience to tell. I like the idea of trying to copy Barca's style, I think it will help Messi a lot.

And yes, we're the favourites, best names and at home, if this was an all vs all league kind of tournament I would confidently say that Argentina would win it, but in a tournament with a knockout stage anything can happen, and many times the best team doesn't end up winning. Also, there could be some pressure on our players to perfrom well at home.

[TDMVPDPOY]

diego forlan is going to shine

[it's me]

Argentina hasn't had a real coach for years....... and their main issue is defense, while Argentina has the best forwards/strikers, they could easily be the "phoenix suns" of the tournament..... Brazil has the best defense in the world and everybody will play Arg counterattacking.... Sorry but I think it'll be another big disappointment .... and it'll be Messi's fault for most idiots.

[ElNono]

Batista is a dog. They won't play like Barça because we can't make 3 passes without turning it over. That said, what I want to see is what the defense looks like. That's what basically define whether they're contender or pretenders. If you see guys like Burdisso or Carrizo, we're done.

I see it playing out somewhat like the last Copa America. Argentina dominating some games, winning some fairly comfortably, and if they go down, they go down big.

[IronMaxipad]

CONCACAF is only letting Mexico take their U23 team..

[DAF86]

CONCACAF is only letting Mexico take their U23 team..

Bush league, I had a lot of expectations of seeing Chicharito and co. play, I've always loved their style an now they have some young talent to make them even more interesting.

People in charge of football in South America should start treating the Copa America like Europeans do with the Eurocup, 1 month every 4 years is too little to see some meaningful Nationl Team football.

[FkLA]

Brasil seems to own Argentina tbh, even when Argentina is steam rolling through everyone like the last Copa America...also isnt Tevez being left out of the roster because of some beef with the coach??I see Brasil taking it again even with Arg hosting it.

Also Mexico is gna take a U23 squad+3 refuerzos imo....Chicharito & Gio should be eligible tho since theyre like 21/22. Not sure if theyll go tho since theyll play the Gold Cup this month

[IronMaxipad]

Brasil seems to own Argentina tbh, even when Argentina is steam rolling through everyone like the last Copa America...also isnt Tevez being left out of the roster because of some beef with the coach??I see Brasil taking it again even with Arg hosting it.

Also Mexico is gna take a U23 squad+3 refuerzos imo....Chicharito & Gio should be eligible tho since theyre like 21/22. Not sure if theyll go tho since theyll play the Gold Cup this month

They aren't going. This is Mexico's copa america roster:

Goalkeepers

Luis Ernesto Michel Vergara - Guadalajara
Liborio Sánchez - Veracruz
Carlos Felipe Rodríguez - Monarcas

Defenders

Jonny Magallón - Guadalajara
Miguel Ponce - Guadalajara
Darvin Chávez - Atlas
Néstor Vidrio - Atlas
Hiram Mier - Monterrey
Néstor Araujo - Cruz Azul
Paul Aguilar - America
Israel Jiménez - Tigres
Fernando Navarro - Atlante

Midfielders

Jorge Enríquez - Guadalajara
Marco Fabián de la Mora - Guadalajara
Javier Aquino - Cruz Azul
Jorge Hernández - Jaguares
David Cabrera - Pumas
Diego Reyes - América
Néstor Calderón - Toluca
Jonathan Dos Santos - Barcelona B
Edgar Pacheco - Atlas

Forwards

Rafael Márquez Lugo - Monarcas
Javier Cortes - Pumas
Oribe Peralta - Santos
Carlos Vela - Arsenal
Erick Torres - Guadalajara



Mexico is also in the Under-20 world cup this summer and there are some good players on that roster that won't be in copa america either.

[FkLA]

They aren't going. This is Mexico's copa america roster:

Goalkeepers

Luis Ernesto Michel Vergara - Guadalajara
Liborio Sánchez - Veracruz
Carlos Felipe Rodríguez - Monarcas

Defenders

Jonny Magallón - Guadalajara
Miguel Ponce - Guadalajara
Darvin Chávez - Atlas
Néstor Vidrio - Atlas
Hiram Mier - Monterrey
Néstor Araujo - Cruz Azul
Paul Aguilar - America
Israel Jiménez - Tigres
Fernando Navarro - Atlante

Midfielders

Jorge Enríquez - Guadalajara
Marco Fabián de la Mora - Guadalajara
Javier Aquino - Cruz Azul
Jorge Hernández - Jaguares
David Cabrera - Pumas
Diego Reyes - América
Néstor Calderón - Toluca
Jonathan Dos Santos - Barcelona B
Edgar Pacheco - Atlas

Forwards

Rafael Márquez Lugo - Monarcas
Javier Cortes - Pumas
Oribe Peralta - Santos
Carlos Vela - Arsenal
Erick Torres - Guadalajara



Mexico is also in the Under-20 world cup this summer and there are some good players on that roster that won't be in copa america either.

wtf would chepo waste the refuerzos on guys like marquez lugo, peralta, and paul aguilar...these s will be lucky to get out of the group stage smh

[diego]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165819 tbh, but I don't care really.

I don't know if Batista is a good coach, he hasn't had the experience to tell. I like the idea of trying to copy Barca's style, I think it will help Messi a lot.

meh, that thread has been dead for 6 months!

Batista hasnt had experience to tell? He's been coaching for over a decade, mostly fighting for promotion/relegation in our domestic league (with more relegation than promotion IIRC), and failing to qualify the sub20 squad to the WC (a category that argentina has been dominating for over a decade). He did win the 2008 olympics though- I believe that is his only win as a coach aside from promotion. I remember you and Manumaniac blasting Maradona for lack of experience, and now a guy whose only achievement in over a decade is an olympic gold gets a "wait and see" pass?

In theory copying the barca system sounds good, but Argentina does not have the same quality at the back to compensate for 2 playmakers with limited defensive ability in midfield (xavi and iniesta in barca). Not to mention years of playing time together...

Batista is a dog. They won't play like Barça because we can't make 3 passes without turning it over. That said, what I want to see is what the defense looks like. That's what basically define whether they're contender or pretenders. If you see guys like Burdisso or Carrizo, we're done.

Batista said that he has a weakness for Carrizo not long ago...
I agree that our D is our main problem. If we can keep teams on their heels then maybe it wont show, but I have no faith in the defense, especially the goalie, whether it be romero, carrizo, andujar... maybe we should nationalize a yankee goalie

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it sucks that mexico cant send a better team, but I think that has more to do with FIFA politics (to insure they send their best to their own regional tournament than to an invitational, same with the U20 WC). It should be a good experience for their B team players. They have a good chance of qualifying past the group stage IMO, but I dont see them going farther than that.

[Muser]

I'd be very surprised if Argentina doesn't win this comfortably.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I remember you and Manumaniac blasting Maradona for lack of experience, and now a guy whose only achievement in over a decade is an olympic gold gets a "wait and see" pass?

First of all, we were right about Maradona. Second, I don't think Batista is a good coach, but I do think he's got the right idea. Copying Barca is out of the question since for all the firepower this team has, we don't have anyone resembling a Xavi or an Iniesta like you said, but mimicking them is the right choice. Learning to play through ball control and precise passing is key.

I will agree with you that our main weakness is defense. Now, how to solve that problem escapes I must admit.

[MB20]

Nobody sees Uruguay as a contender?
Aren´t them basically the same team that went far into last WC?

Argentina misses those great central backs they used to have.
Who is our best defender today? Check the list:

Defenders: Gabriel Milito (Barcelona, España), Ezequiel Garay (Real Madrid, España), Nicolás Burdisso (Roma, Italia), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Pareja y Marcos Rojo (Spartak Moscú, Rusia), Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City, Inglaterra) y Fabián Monzón (Boca Juniors).



As someone said in a previous post, Argentina will be the Phoenix Suns (or the 2010/2011 Spurs )

Off topic:
I will watch the tournament, but I honestly are more interested in the BB Preolympic tournament in Mar del Plata. (tickets go on sale next monday...have you seen how much do they cost? )

[DAF86]

meh, that thread has been dead for 6 months!

Well, the idea was to bump by the time the Copa America arrived. But like I said, I don't care.

Batista hasnt had experience to tell? He's been coaching for over a decade, mostly fighting for promotion/relegation in our domestic league (with more relegation than promotion IIRC), and failing to qualify the sub20 squad to the WC (a category that argentina has been dominating for over a decade). He did win the 2008 olympics though- I believe that is his only win as a coach aside from promotion. I remember you and Manumaniac blasting Maradona for lack of experience, and now a guy whose only achievement in over a decade is an olympic gold gets a "wait and see" pass?

He hasn't had the chance to coach any big name team, that's what I meant.

In theory copying the barca system sounds good, but Argentina does not have the same quality at the back to compensate for 2 playmakers with limited defensive ability in midfield (xavi and iniesta in barca). Not to mention years of playing time together...

Well, we play with Mascherano, Cambiasso and Banega in midfield so those are three players with defensive abilities. And I'm not hoping to play exactly like Barcelona but if we can copy some things for example the pressing in the other teams half (which is a matter of desire, not talent), and the message of trying to get the possesion of the ball (instead of having 70% like Barca, having 60% like normal teams) then I think we would be OK.

Batista said that he has a weakness for Carrizo not long ago...
I agree that our D is our main problem. If we can keep teams on their heels then maybe it wont show, but I have no faith in the defense, especially the goalie, whether it be romero, carrizo, andujar... maybe we should nationalize a yankee goalie

I like Carrizo, he's very complete at all aspects of the game: good on the air, good with his feet, and great positioning. Defense is where we suck specially if like it appears to be the case Milito starts.

[ALVAREZ6]

Our best defenders are old: Samuel and Zanetti. Sucks that Maradona left out Cambiasso and Zanetti for the WC roster and unfortunately Samuel was injured in the first game. I couldn't take watching Otamendi, Burdisso, and Demichelis.

Argentina needs defenders asap, obviously good in attack, could use one or two more quality attacking midfielders but in a couple of years Pastore can be a really good player and Messi now pretty much plays in the midfield and forward areas.

[DAF86]

Our best defenders are old: Samuel and Zanetti. Sucks that Maradona left out Cambiasso and Zanetti for the WC roster and unfortunately Samuel was injured in the first game. I couldn't take watching Otamendi, Burdisso, and Demichelis.

Otamendi is good at centerback, the problem is that Maradona played him at right back.

Argentina needs defenders asap, obviously good in attack, could use one or two more quality attacking midfielders but in a couple of years Pastore can be a really good player and Messi now pretty much plays in the midfield and forward areas.

Erik Lamela (the guy on my sig) and Ricky Alvarez are those miedfielders, both will be >> Pastore when they get to Europe. In fact I would have add them to this Copa America roster.

[ALVAREZ6]

Otamendi is good at centerback, the problem is that Maradona played him at right back.



Erik Lamela (the guy on my sig) and Ricky Alvarez are those miedfielders, both will be >> Pastore when they get to Europe. In fact I would have add them to this Copa America roster.

I'm still not convinced of Otamendi, I think he's a scrub. If only Cambiasso were on that WC team, you could experiment with Mascherano in the back line just like Barca have been doing now. They've used him as a central defender but I think he could do a decent job as a full back given the type of player he is.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats weird that Mexico can't take their A League team. Who gives a who they take if they're not taking them away from their clubs?

[diego]

Nobody sees Uruguay as a contender?
Aren´t them basically the same team that went far into last WC?

Argentina misses those great central backs they used to have.
Who is our best defender today? Check the list:

Defenders: Gabriel Milito (Barcelona, España), Ezequiel Garay (Real Madrid, España), Nicolás Burdisso (Roma, Italia), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Pareja y Marcos Rojo (Spartak Moscú, Rusia), Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City, Inglaterra) y Fabián Monzón (Boca Juniors).



As someone said in a previous post, Argentina will be the Phoenix Suns (or the 2010/2011 Spurs )

Off topic:
I will watch the tournament, but I honestly are more interested in the BB Preolympic tournament in Mar del Plata. (tickets go on sale next monday...have you seen how much do they cost? )

Uruguay is definitely a contender, I included them in my OP. but I dont think they will replicate their WC success because I dont think Forlan is in the same form he was then- you never know though, thats whats great about this sport.

I would add Gonzalo Rodriguez (villareal) to the list of defenders. He's had bad luck with injuries but he is still relatively young and I think he is better than some of the guys you listed (though I admit I havent seen him very much post injury, maybe he's lost a step). Milito and Garay are very overrated IMO, though Milito lost a lot to injury. Still, we dont have anywhere near the quality we need to be a world power.

as for the OT, I live in Chile and had been planning to go to watch the Preolympic tournament, but changed my mind when I saw the prices. I'll just go see family instead...

[MB20]

Erik Lamela (the guy on my sig) and Ricky Alvarez are those miedfielders, both will be >> Pastore when they get to Europe. In fact I would have add them to this Copa America roster.

I wouldn´t go that far.
Lamela and Alvarez are very good...for our local league. We´ll have to wait and see how they perform once they get to Europe and face the best players.
Pastore had a very good season in Italy, so he is proven against quality compe ion. And he is very young (Chelsea is interested in him. His team (Palermo) said that would cost $ 80 million )

[IronMaxipad]

Giovani Dos Santos given permission to play in Copa America! Still not close to our "A" team but better than nothing.

Also Arsenal will not let Carlos Vela play in Copa America

[SAtown]

Also Arsenal will not let Carlos Vela play in Copa America

LOL Vela's career already going down the ter

[Spurstro]

Giovani Dos Santos given permission to play in Copa America! Still not close to our "A" team but better than nothing.

Also Arsenal will not let Carlos Vela play in Copa America

Why not? Might as well give him a chance to play

[Spurstro]

LOL....is this true?

http://rumorsandrants.com/2011/06/em...am-roster.html