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Depends on the angle. I couldn't see his feet on the replay.
OK everybody. First off, good game for the Spurs, good 42 minutes for the Pistons. I have a question. Putting all biases and allegences aside. What did everybody think of the blocking foul that Ben took on Manu either late in the third or early in the fourth out by the 3 point line. I thought it was clearly a charge because it didnt look like Ben even moved his feet at all. I think this was the turning point. If that is called a charge the Pistons get the ball back with a chance to tie, instead the Spurs made the tech and i believe made a basket to make it a 5 point game. Basically, I just want to know if everybody saw the play the same way I did.
Depends on the angle. I couldn't see his feet on the replay.
Your feet don't have to be still for it to be a charge. As long as you get to the spot before the offensive player, it is a charge. In my opinion, Ben was there before Manu.
No excuses please...
regardless, the foul was called... ben should have kept his cool... either way, manu was taking the game over...
Im not making excuses or talking about "that was the call you have to play through it." I just want to know if people think the call is correct or incorrect in their opinions. I already said that the Spurs played a good game and Detroit didnt finish the game well. At thatpoint, Manu only had 13 points, he was far from taking over the game. That didnt come until later in the 4th.
I think it was a charge, BUT it wasn´t turning point. It was just a begining of the Spurs run
Well, I'll actually be honest. It looked like a blown call to me, Wallace knew Ginobili was going to go left, so when Manu started to make his move Big Ben jumped into position and planted himself on Manu's left side. Ginobili plowed into him and the blocking foul was called, but from what I could see it seemed Wallace had established position and Manu initiated the contact. I don't think that one play cost the Pistons the game, but I would agree it was a bad call.
And that run was the turning point. If it is called a charge, the Pistons have a chance to tie it, as it was called, the Spurs went up 5. That is a huge swing in a low scoring game like last night.I think it was a charge, BUT it wasn´t turning point. It was just a begining of the Spurs run
I was j/k!
See that
the pistons are the defending champs... they can't let one call bother them like that... if ben loses his cool, that doesn't mean the rest of the team should lay down... they didn't... manu just took over!
I thought it was a charge. But Ben made it worse by getting a T. They were some pretty bad calls (or non-calls) against the Spurs in the first Q - which helped the Pistons build up their lead. The Spurs played through them - the Pistons didn't.
Fair enough, it was a 5-point turnaround (assuming Det would have scored on their possession if a charge had been called).
However, there was plenty of time left in the game to undo a 5-point turnaround; and the game ended with Det losing by 15. So you could say it was a blown call, but not something that decided the outcome.
I think it was a charge. I also think that if the Pistons are so mentally fragile that one missed call is going to take them entirely out of the game that the Spurs should be able to sweep the Pistons.
also, in the nba finals, the refs are going to let wallace flop like that...
it was clearly a block to me.
Another point, if that is called a charge, then it's Manu's 4th foul and he would maybe come to the bench (probably not). He would have to play more under control and the game might have been closer down the stretch. Again, maybe maybe not.
I found an article on ESPN.com about this play.
SAN ANTONIO -- No comment.
Such words are rare coming from Detroit Pistons guard Chauncey Billups. Of all the members of the reigning NBA champions, none is more eloquent or better at speaking on any subject than "Smooth." But the thought of how the Pistons' game changed in the fourth quarter after Ben Wallace's attempt to draw a charge on the Spurs' Manu Ginobili left Billups speechless.
"No comment," Billups said.
San Antonio held a 55-53 lead with 10:45 remaining in the fourth quarter. With the often-reckless Ginobili barreling toward the basket, the NBA's defensive player of the year attempted to take the charge. The decision could have easily gone in Wallace's behalf. But it didn't. And the emotions afterward changed everything.
Was it a charge or a block? You decide. Watch the play and the rest of Game 1 highlights right here in ESPN Motion.
• Game 1 highlights
After the foul was called, a disgruntled Wallace showed his displeasure and tossed off his headband. Technical foul. The Spurs responded after that with a 19-4 run to take a 74-57 lead. Although the Pistons got within 10 (74-64) with 3:37 left, the whistle from earlier in the fourth quarter was too much to overcome for Detroit and San Antonio went on to a 84-69 victory in Game 1 of the NBA Finals.
When asked a two-part question on Ginobili and the block-charge with Wallace, Billups said: "I'll talk about the first part."
When asked about the block call a little bit later, Billups said: "No comment."
Then, after pausing, Billups finally couldn't contain the disappointment and opened up.
"No, actually, it was," he said. "I thought it was a charge. But it could have really went either way. It was a great play. But I thought it was a charge."
At the time of the charge, Ginobili had yet to score in the fourth quarter. Afterward, he sparked the Spurs to victory by scoring 15 points on 6-of-6 shooting from the field.
When asked if the referee break energized Ginobili, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said: "No, he's always energized. Seriously, there's not one thing that makes him get going and make him step it up a level. He plays at that pace all the time."
While Ginobili might not have been energized by the play, the Pistons were definitely deflated mentally and emotionally.
I found a better one:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...jackson/050609
Ever look in the mirror and see something that looks nothing like you? The identical simulacrum is not a clone, a replica or even an alter ego. Nothing about the image represents anything that you resemble. Yet without question, the reflection that is staring back at you, eyeing your eyes, is you.
Here's the script: They are one. The Pistons, the Spurs. The Champs vs. the ex-Champs. One in the same. Like Mary Kate and Ashley, and not even their physician could tell them apart. Both teams on a two-year course to find each other, to meet at this point.
Now, on the eve of what has been 730 days in the making, the two best teams in basketball are about to decide: Which one of them is being lied to by the mirror on the wall?
*****
The history here is eerie, once studied. It makes the series we are about to witness bigger than just two more weeks of basketball.
Spurs coach Gregg Popovich was Pistons coach Larry Brown's best man at his wedding. Once, as a favor to his friend, Brown scheduled his Kansas team to play Popovich's D-III Pomona-Pitzer squad, and agreed to speak to Pop's team before the game – only to wish them luck and tell them they were about to "get their (butts) kicked." And Dean Smith had them both at UNC (at different times).
Still, Pop, who's been Larry's greatest understudy, got his second ring before Brown got his first.
Rasheed Wallace and Tim Duncan began their battles years ago in the ACC – 'Sheed a Heel, Duncan a Deacon (seems fitting, right?). In '97, it was called the Calm vs. the Storm. In 2005, the same dub. Like their teams, they are opposites, but so much the same, too. Both dominate. In different ways, but still the same.
They've been the bookend definitions of the range of greatness at the four spot. Tim at one end, 'Sheed at the other. Both have held the pound-for-pound le; both hold it now. In between, there has been Garnett, Webber, Nowitzki, J. O'Neal.
Now they face each other for something larger than an ACC tournament le.
In 2003, two players from different sides of the world would join each team and change them beyond their GM's beliefs. One came from Kentucky, the other from Argentina. A performance in the 2002 World Championships made one team believe (even though that team had acquired his draft rights three years prior); a 41-point performance in the NCAA tournament that same year made the other team believe.
They'd come to each team as a role player off the bench, making their impacts in different, often unusual, and spectacular ways. Each year, their scoring averages have gone up. So have other stats – rebounding, assists, steals, playing time – as well as their importance. Each playoff game, their reps got larger. They played together on last year's sop re squad during the All-Star weekend festivities.
Now, it is specifically because of Manu and Tayshaun that the Spurs and the Pistons are here.
Then there's Big Shot Bob against Mr. Big Shot.
Speaking of Robert Horry, he and Lindsey Hunter are the most important bench players in this series. They both bear the responsibility to lift their teams with the intangibles that no one in the starting five can provide. Their link? They won rings together. Laker days. Now they meet each other here.
Still think this wasn't meant to be?
Both teams play inside a system. Pop has one; L.B. has another. Each system has the same origin, the same lineage. If you listen to any player on either team, the first word out of his mouth is "defense."
Transition defense vs. half-court defense. Both got that. Yet both teams can put 115 on the books if necessary. (Game 2 against each other this season: 110-101 Detroit.)
Ball movement. Both do that. Each team has five players that can score in double figures in every game. Yet both can grind out wins scoring 80, too, if necessary. (Game 1: 80-77 San Antonio.)p>
Both teams are injury-free and have no excuses. Both, too, are unfortunately tagged with the most irritating cliché in professional sports: They play the game the right way .
And as different as their styles might look on the court, the Pistons and the Spurs play the same way, rely on the same philosophy, and garner the same results.
Wins.
What they each have that isn't fraternal …
Fans in SBC, polite and loyal. Fans in the Palace, wild and loyal.
Both teams are tougher than they were a year ago. One team overachieved (beating Phoenix in five), while the other played better when its back was against the wall (beating Miami without home-court advantage in seven). One was built with trades and free agency, the other with original draft choices. One has a roster full of players whose previous teams didn't believe in them, while the other has a roster full of players who have been the belief of only one organization.
The Pistons have flipped uniforms four times in the last 10 years; the Spurs wear the same unis Gervin wore in the ABA.
The differences are drastic. Yet in the mirror, the Pistons and the Spurs only see one another.
*****
Are you the best? Or am I?
That's the question they ask each other when they look in the mirror and see the other. Who is the best basketball team in existence?
Them? Or them?
It began with the Olympics. The destiny of these two teams making it to this point, to meet each other, to look and see each other in the mirror, was shaped the minute the United States became the victim of God's plan to humble American basketball.
Roy Willams, an assistant in Athens, won the NCAA championship. Twisted karma. Now, L.B. and Pop, head coach and assistant, respectively, at the Olympics last summer, get the chance to find that same peace.
God knows that not being the best in the world is a heavy burden to carry here, especially when the coaches of the last two teams to win the world championships are considered partially responsible for the status of American basketball until 2008.
But this is about the best in the world. And who that is.
The San Antonio Spurs and the Detroit Pistons were meant to be here for reasons that are bigger than the fact that they are the two best teams in the NBA.
Their meeting is a part of the restoration needed for a coaching staff (and a country) to have a better summer in 2005 than they (and we) did last year.
Whoever wins this series will restore, somewhat, the sense of superiority of American basketball, without having to face the world to do it. Because once this is all over, two of the three coaches who got out-coached in Athens, whose team got outplayed in Greece 10 months ago, will have won the two biggest prizes in American basketball.
The one who wins the trophy lays claim to the le, "World Champions."
Only Ginobili might have a problem with that.
*****
Lost in all of this is what they've been through. It's what all NBA teams with a Larry O'Brien trophy must endure.
It's called "the Process."
The Spurs and the Pistons are both products of the Process.
Miami and Phoenix can't say that. Maybe next year, they can.
To get an NBA le, a team must go through the process of losing and building in the playoffs. One free agent signing, one trade, and all of a sudden you challenge for the ring?
This isn't baseball. Or the NFL.
The Pistons and the Spurs are proof that winning an NBA le is the most difficult thing to do in professional team sports. There are no fluke champions in David Stern's league. There are no worst-to-first seasons. There are no Minnesota Twins or Florida Marlins. No Baltimore Ravens or Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
And for this reason alone, you must watch, regardless of what talk radio and other media people say about these teams' "unsexiness" and this series' "boredom." You must watch. And appreciate.
To get an NBA chip, every team must go through the journey, the process. Every team, like the Pistons and the Spurs, must lose in the previous years. Lose and learn. Then come back, add a player or two, sign a coach. They must feel the pain of losing a season earlier than expected before they can come back the next year on a mission not even the Red Sox could comprehend.
This is what sports, not just basketball, is all about.
And this is why the next two weeks are so significant. Because in the last two years, these two teams have gone through the wire to prove to the world that they are the best. In 2003, San An proved it; the next year, Detroit showed and proved it.
Now they face each other to find out if what they see in the mirror is their own destiny looking back at them, or just the other team.
Horrible call but we took a butt whuppin'! If we had lost by 1 or 2 it may have loomed large but we got beat by...15?
Spurs outplayed us. Duncan in the first half and Manu in the second half.
Tough defense, I think we hit about 30% of our shots.
Great win Spurs fans!!!
Clearly it was a charge, but calls are blown for both teams at various points in the game. Spurs got a little home cooking with the refs, but that's not why they won. Ben blew it by the way he reacted to it. Bens fond of saying it's time to shut up and play. He should follow his own advice. I love Ben, but this is the Finals. If they let a bad call like that get inside their head it's not helping things.
I said later in the thread that the Spurs played better. Im not knocking them, I was just curious as to whether or not people saw the play the same way that I did. Thats all.
Ive been saying that same thing about our whole team this entire season. They think because they are the defending champs, they should get some special treatment. Last year, Sheed got a lot of techs, but most of the other guys kept their cool most of the time. Now, after every foul call, they have to go talk to the refs about it. The main culprits are Ben, Sheed, Rip & Tay. Chauncey usually doesn't argue too many calls.
I think it was a charge, but you know, if Ben hadn't flopped he probably would have got the call... it's just not believeable for somebody as slight as Manu to run into Ben (and not at anywhere close to full speed) and that knocks Ben clear on his ass? The refs saw that and rolled their eyes.
It was a charge, and no, that's not why you lost. Simple as that
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