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  1. #1
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...efKH_blog.html

    “Chrysler has repaid every dime and more of what it owes American taxpayers for their support during my presidency.”

    — President Obama, June 4, 2011

    This post has been updated.

    With some of the economic indicators looking a bit dicey, President Obama traveled to Ohio last week to tout what the administration considers a good-news story: the rescue of the domestic automobile industry. In fact, he also made it the subject of his weekly radio address.

    We take no view on whether the administration’s efforts on behalf of the automobile industry were a good or bad thing; that’s a matter for the editorial pages and eventually the historians. But we are interested in the facts the president cited to make his case.

    What we found is one of the most misleading collections of assertions we have seen in a short presidential speech. Virtually every claim by the president regarding the auto industry needs an asterisk, just like the fine print in that too-good-to-be-true car loan.

    Let’s look at the claims in the order in which the president said them.

    “Chrysler has repaid every dime and more of what it owes American taxpayers for their support during my presidency — and it repaid that money six years ahead of schedule. And this week, we reached a deal to sell our remaining stake. That means soon, Chrysler will be 100 percent in private hands.”
    Wow, “every dime and more” sounds like such a bargain. Not only did Chrysler pay back the loan, with interest — but the company paid back even more than they owed. Isn’t America great or what?

    Not so fast. The president snuck in the weasel words “during my presidency” in his statement. What does that mean?

    According to the White House, Obama is counting only the $8.5 billion loan that he made to Chrysler, not the $4 billion that President George W. Bush extended in his last month in office. However, Obama was not a disinterested observer at the time. According to The Washington Post article on the Bush loan, the incoming president called Bush’s action a “necessary step . . . to help avoid a collapse of our auto industry that would have had devastating consequences for our economy and our workers.”

    Under the administration’s math, the U.S. government will receive $11.2 billion back from Chrysler, far more than the $8.5 billion Obama extended.

    Through this sleight-of-hand accounting, the White House can conveniently ignore Bush’s loan, but even the Treasury Department admits that U.S. taxpayers will not recoup about $1.3 billion of the entire $12.5 billion investment when all is said and done.

    The White House justifies not counting the Bush money because, it says, that money was completely spent when Obama was making a tough political decision on whether to extend another loan. In other words, a decision to do nothing at the time would have resulted in the immediate loss of the $4 billion that Bush had extended.

    This is chicanery. Under the president’s math, Chrysler paid back 100 percent of Obama’s loan and less than 70 percent of Bush’s loan. A more honest presentation would combine the two figures to say U.S. taxpayers got back 90 percent of what they invested. In fact, that is how the Treasury and other administration officials frequently portray it; it is just when Obama speaks that the numbers get so squishy.

    The White House justifies saying that Chrysler will be in 100 percent “in private hands” because there will no longer be government ownership once Fiat completes its purchase of the U.S. stake. For the record, the United Auto Workers will own 46 percent of the company.

    “All three American automakers are now adding shifts and creating jobs at the strongest rate since the 1990s.”
    The White House says the data to back this claim concerning the Big Three automakers is not public information. The official Bureau of Labor Statistics data refers to the entire auto industry — including foreign auto manufacturers, auto parts manufacturers, auto parts dealers and auto dealers. If you look at the data, the 113,200 jobs added between June 2009 and May 2011 amounts to about a 5 percent increase — from a rather low base.

    UPDATE, 10:45 AM: Yen Chen, automotive business statistical analyst at the Center for Automotive Research, says CAR's analysis of Big Three auto data shows this statistic is correct. The Detroit Three are expected to add 10,000 hourly and 5,000 salaried workers this year, from a base of 115,805 hourly workers and 56, 432 salaried workers. That's an increase of about eight percent in each case. More than 16,000 hourly workers were added in 1991, but from a much higher base--440,000-- and 10,000 were also added in 1995, when there were 433,000 hourly workers. Meanwhile, salaried workers have been on a steady decline since 1990 (when the big Three employed 157,000).

    “GM plans to hire back all of the workers they had to lay off during the recession.”
    This is another impressive-sounding but misleading figure. In the five years since 2006, General Motors announced that it would reduce its workforce by nearly 68,000 hourly and salary workers, creating a much smaller company. Those are the figures that generated the headlines.

    Obama is only talking about a sliver of workers — the 9,600 workers who were laid off in the fourth quarter of 2008. About 4,100 were sent home for a few weeks. Another 5,500 were put on indefinite leave, meaning there were no jobs at the time for them. All but 1,000 have returned to work, and the rest should be back at work by year’s end, according to GM spokesman Greg A. Martin.

    “In the year before I was President, this industry lost more than 400,000 jobs, and two great American companies, Chrysler and GM, stood on the brink of collapse. Now, we had a few options. We could have done what a lot of folks in Washington thought we should do — nothing.”
    This is quite a straw man — that many people wanted to do nothing. It was never so black and white. The debate was over the right course to take in the bankruptcy process.

    The Wall Street Journal published Monday an interesting conservative critique of the government’s intervention by David Skeel, a law professor at University of Pennsylvania. Skeel says that the revival of the auto industry “is a very encouraging development,” but “to claim that the car companies would have collapsed if the government hadn’t intervened in the way it did, and to suggest that the intervention came at very little cost, is a dangerous misreading of our recent history.”

    To support the claim that “a lot of folks” wanted to do nothing, the White House referred us to statements by the House minority leader, John Boehner (R-Ohio), and Sens. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) and Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.).

    We do not read Boehner’s quote that way; in this 2009 comment, he is questioning the administration’s approach while saying, “The success of our automotive industry is critical.”Shelby and Kyl in 2008 were protesting the use of taxpayer funds by Bush to delay a bankruptcy filing; they preferred immediately putting the companies through the bankruptcy process.

    It will be up to historians to decide what the best solution would have been for taxpayers and the auto industry. We can understand why the president wants to portray himself as making a lonely and tough decision. But the debate was not either/or, bur rather what was the best policy to bring the automakers back to financial health.

    The Pinocchio Test
    The president is straining too hard. If the auto industry bailout is really a success, there should be no need to resort to trumped-up rhetoric and phony accounting to make your case. Let the facts speak for themselves.

    Three Pinocchios


    (About our rating scale)

  2. #2
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The White House Blog
    Fact Checking the Fact Checker
    Posted by Dan Pfeiffer on June 07, 2011 at 11:30 AM EDT

    No one’s perfect, not even the anointed fact checkers who take on the admirable and valuable task of holding public officials accountable for what they say. Sometimes in their zeal for accountability, they get ahead of themselves and the facts. And that seems to be what happened today, when the Washington Post fact checked the President’s remarks last week on the resurgent American auto industry. So let’s take a minute to restore that context before we discuss the specific facts in question.

    In the year before the President took office, the American auto industry lost more than 400,000 jobs. Chrysler and GM were facing liquidation.

    President Obama had a choice: He could have extended billions of dollars of taxpayer support without requiring any real changes. He also could have allowed the companies to collapse, which, because they are closely linked to networks of suppliers, dealers and other auto companies, would have had a dramatic ripple effect through the industry. Independent forecasts projected that, were the companies to fail, it could have eliminated more than 1 million jobs. Instead he chose a different way: standing behind the American auto industry, but requiring the companies to undergo painful restructuring to become compe ive for the future.

    So last week – two years after making that difficult decision – the President delivered an accounting of its results to date. In doing so, he pointed out that Chrysler had more than repaid the $8.5 billion that the Obama administration invested in the company. That’s a fact. Chrysler has repaid $10.6 billion in loans, and the Treasury recovered another $560 million by selling its remaining stake in the company to Fiat last week.

    It is also true that the prior administration had invested $4 billion in the company prior to President Obama taking office. But let’s be clear: had President Obama not taken action, Chrysler would have liquidated and that money would have been gone. Instead of losing all $4 billion of those dollars, we have recovered more than 70% of them for taxpayers, in addition to all of the funds committed by President Obama.

    Given those facts, it is not only factually accurate for President Obama to note the full recovery – and then some – of the funds he decided to commit to Chrysler, but it is an accurate description of the cir stance he faced and the decisions he made with respect to the company.

    In muddying that fact, the author also misunderstands another, claiming that Chrysler will not “soon…be 100 percent in private hands.” For the record, the UAW, which is in fact a private en y, does not own Chrysler stock. The Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) which owns the stock is an independent trust, not controlled by the UAW, but by independent fiduciaries. The UAW has minority representation on the Trust governing body.

    The second point on which the Post falls short is in suggesting that the 113,000 American jobs added by the auto industry since Chrysler and GM are irrelevant because the figure includes jobs at suppliers, dealers, parts manufacturers, and other related en ies.

    The President has always said he viewed his decision in the context of standing behind not just Chrysler and GM. but the American auto industry as a whole. That view is backed up by even conservative estimates, which suggest that more than a million American jobs would have been lost had the President failed to act. It’s also why Ford CEO Alan Mulally said that even though his company did not take government funds, “if GM and Chrysler would have gone into freefall bankruptcy, they would have taken the supply base down and taken the industry down plus maybe turned the U.S. recession into a depression.”

    Mr. Mulally’s quote also debunks the Post’s assertion that critics of rescuing the industry had a plan other than to do nothing. In late 2008 and early 2009 there was no private capital being volunteered to save the industry. That’s why Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne recently said that anyone who claims the company could have survived without government assistance is “smoking illegal material.” Without the President’s decision to step in, GM and Chrysler would have gone into liquidation, taking the American auto industry with them. Some may continue to believe that this was a better course for our economy, but they should defend that position, not try to rewrite the historical record.

    Finally, the Post downplays the fact that GM is in the process of rehiring of thousands of workers who were laid off as part of the restructuring. The President will be the first one to tell you that we will not rest until every American who is looking for a job can find one. But we will also not apologize for touting the rehiring of nearly 10,000 American manufacturing workers and the fact that soon no GM employees will be laid-off as good news.

    Dan Pfeiffer is White House Communications Director

  3. #3
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    (Don't shoot the messenger, kthx)

  4. #4
    Scrumtrulescent
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    The auto bailouts were a farce and (IMO at least) unnecessary and counter productive. Poorly run companies deserve to fail. What's worse is that there's a good chance we'll end up having to bail them out again.

  5. #5
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Why would we bail out Fiat?

  6. #6
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    (Don't shoot the messenger, kthx)
    Wow...ElNono is an Obama shill!

  7. #7
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Why would we bail out Fiat?
    Ostensibly because of the same reasons we bailed out Chrysler....jobs.

  8. #8
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Is Fiat broke?

  9. #9
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Not yet. Wouldn't be the first time tho. They damned near bit the big one in 2004.

  10. #10
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Mr Pfeiffer must have gotten dizzy writing that spin.

  11. #11
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    The auto bailouts were a farce and (IMO at least) unnecessary and counter productive. Poorly run companies deserve to fail. What's worse is that there's a good chance we'll end up having to bail them out again.
    If I had to compare the auto bailout with the bank bailout, the auto bailout is looking x1000 times better.

    I understand the "let them fail" notion, but that incurred a very serious risk to it. I can understand why the President chose the path he did.

  12. #12
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    If I had to compare the auto bailout with the bank bailout, the auto bailout is looking x1000 times better.

    I understand the "let them fail" notion, but that incurred a very serious risk to it. I can understand why the President chose the path he did.
    Both presidents did.

  13. #13
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Mr Pfeiffer must have gotten dizzy writing that spin.
    specifically, what spin?

    To me it looks as though the Pfieffer was specifically responding to the factcheck..with facts..

  14. #14
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    specifically, what spin?

    To me it looks as though the Pfieffer was specifically responding to the factcheck..with facts..


    Did they loan Chrysler ing MARKED BILLS?

    he says the money that Chrysler paid back was the money that OBAMA loaned them and not the money BUSH loaned them? so ALL the money OBAMA loaned them got paid back in full "and more"????



    thats called spin.

  15. #15
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    specifically, what spin?

    To me it looks as though the Pfieffer was specifically responding to the factcheck..with facts..
    tbh, it appeared that Pfieffer was specifically responding to the factcheck with syntax smack ie the Bush vs Obama bailout/repayment. To say that more money was repaid than the Obama administration paid out is factually opaque. But it is factual in a sense.

  16. #16
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Did they loan Chrysler ing MARKED BILLS?

    he says the money that Chrysler paid back was the money that OBAMA loaned them and not the money BUSH loaned them? so ALL the money OBAMA loaned them got paid back in full "and more"????



    thats called spin.
    So the money his administration authorized was paid back... ok... so I guess he would been better of stating that "Chrysler paid back the money my administration lent them".... would that have made you happy? of course if he would have done that then people like you would compalin that he was blaming Bush again..

  17. #17
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    tbh, it appeared that Pfieffer was specifically responding to the factcheck with syntax smack ie the Bush vs Obama bailout/repayment. To say that more money was repaid than the Obama administration paid out is factually opaque. But it is factual in a sense.
    lawyer speak...

  18. #18
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    DC's knee deep in 'em.

  19. #19
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    DC's knee deep in 'em.
    I'm trying to figure out if people like the resident conservatives realize this stuff happens all of the time with their side as well. They complain when the dems do it... yet remain silent when the GOP has done it.. or maybe they were born after 1/20/09... If you have any thoughts let me know

  20. #20
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out if people like the resident conservatives realize this stuff happens all of the time with their side as well. They complain when the dems do it... yet remain silent when the GOP has done it.. or maybe they were born after 1/20/09... If you have any thoughts let me know
    Of course I realize both sides do it.

    Why can't they just say...hey...so we lost a couple billion on Chrysler...but ...the bright side is that it wasn't near as much as we are gonna lose on GM...

  21. #21
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Why can't they just say...hey...so we lost a couple billion on Chrysler...but ...the bright side is that it wasn't near as much as we are gonna lose on GM...
    Yes, politicians are well-known for their honest, straight-forward stances.

  22. #22
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out if people like the resident conservatives realize this stuff happens all of the time with their side as well. They complain when the dems do it... yet remain silent when the GOP has done it.. or maybe they were born after 1/20/09... If you have any thoughts let me know
    The OP is in response to Obama's recent speech. It didn't manifest itself out of thin air. Obama is fair game in this instance. He made the claims. They deserve analysis.

  23. #23
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    The auto bailouts were a farce and (IMO at least) unnecessary and counter productive. Poorly run companies deserve to fail. What's worse is that there's a good chance we'll end up having to bail them out again.
    Agreed. They needed the bankruptcy process to reorganize without tax dollars.
    Both presidents did.
    And both were wrong, though I don't know to what extent president Bush was in actively wanting such a deal. Do you know? Was he an advocate, or just approved congress' decision?
    So the money his administration authorized was paid back... ok... so I guess he would been better of stating that "Chrysler paid back the money my administration lent them".... would that have made you happy? of course if he would have done that then people like you would compalin that he was blaming Bush again..
    Was it? Sorry if I have doubts about what politicians say.

  24. #24
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    And both were wrong, though I don't know to what extent president Bush was in actively wanting such a deal. Do you know? Was he an advocate, or just approved congress' decision?
    You're such a ing idiot.

  25. #25
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You're such a ing idiot.
    Yep.

    You cannot answer my question, so you will be a chump instead.

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