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  1. #1
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    Since the day of its inception, the WNBA has never been profitable. The only reason it's lasted this long is because Stern created it and would rather keep it on life support with revenue earned by the NBA and its players than put his ego aside and admit it was a failure. The WNBA has never demonstrated the ability to turn a profit regardless of economic conditions in America. People love to use the term "It's a business" when describing pro sports, but the WNBA is anything but a business. The sole purpose of a business is making money, one thing the WNBA doesn't do. It's better described as a non-profit charity organization funded by the NBA for female basketball players.

    Now, when the economy is good, and everyone (owners, players, coaches, etc.) in the NBA is fat and happy, it's excusable for Stern to use the NBA to keep the WNBA around. It's still in stupid for a "business" to invest in something my dog can see isn't profitable, but it's not something worth complaining about.

    In this economy tho, it's ridiculous that not only is the WNBA still around, there hasn't been any murmur of shutting it down/contracting it. There's been talk from Stern of killing as many as 10 NBA teams that are losing money right now but have made money in the past, but Stern hasn't even mentioned the idea of killing a league that can't make money in a good or bad economy. There's a likely chance we'll see a hard salary cap where NBA players take a big pay cut and have contracts that are only partially guaranteed when NBA players are selling tickets and earning big TV contracts for the NBA, yet I haven't heard anything about reducing the WNBA players' salary/making their contract non-guaranteed, when the only reason they get paid is revenue earned by NBA athletes.

    Does this seem as stupid to anyone else as it does to me?

  2. #2
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I agree

  3. #3
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Pretty much describes it


  4. #4
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Had to look it up to confirm, but the WNBA has already contracted in number of teams and roster spots for each team. Does anyone know what the most recent subsidy the NBA paid to cover WNBA losses? That would be a fair assessment of how things are going. Anyway, I think the league and team owners (including the Spurs) are probably content to go along at similar levels until the ESPN contract runs out in 2016.

  5. #5
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    Had to look it up to confirm, but the WNBA has already contracted in number of teams and roster spots for each team. Does anyone know what the most recent subsidy the NBA paid to cover WNBA losses? That would be a fair assessment of how things are going. Anyway, I think the league and team owners (including the Spurs) are probably content to go along at similar levels until the ESPN contract runs out in 2016.
    IMO, the NBA isn't in any kind of shape right now to be paying subsidies to cover WNBA losses regardless of how big it is. That's not fair to the NBA teams that have to cover their own losses. It's not like the NBA would be helping the WNBA out until the economy turned around like it would be with certain NBA teams, it'd be helping the WNBA out just so it could help the WNBA out again with less money in a good economy.

    As far as league owners being content, I think it also has a lot to do with owners knowing how stubborn Stern is keeping the NBA alive, and suggesting it be cut down would put said owner on Stern's list.

  6. #6
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    IMO, the NBA isn't in any kind of shape right now to be paying subsidies to cover WNBA losses regardless of how big it is. That's not fair to the NBA teams that have to cover their own losses.
    Do they have to cover all their own losses?

    It's not like the NBA would be helping the WNBA out until the economy turned around like it would be with certain NBA teams, it'd be helping the WNBA out just so it could help the WNBA out again with less money in a good economy.
    I agree there are other steps that can be taken.

    As far as league owners being content, I think it also has a lot to do with owners knowing how stubborn Stern is keeping the NBA alive, and suggesting it be cut down would put said owner on Stern's list.
    You do know that several WNBA teams are owned by NBA owners, don't you?

  7. #7
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    Do they have to cover all their own losses?
    Not 100% sure, but I can't imagine owners would be complaining about losses they don't have to cover.

    I agree there are other steps that can be taken.
    Good, but I wasn't trying to argue with you

    You do know that several WNBA teams are owned by NBA owners, don't you?
    Yes, I wasn't sure what you were actually saying in the last part. My point was that no one involved in CBA negotiations is stupid enough to suggest scrapping the WNBA, knowing that Stern refuses to accept the WNBA as a failure, and knowing how Stern reacts to those who question him/his creations.

  8. #8
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people think owners live in fear of Stern. He's their employee and works at their collective pleasure.

    And no, teams don't cover all their own losses. , until the league took over the Hornets, they received a direct multimillion dollar subsidy from the state of Louisiana every year. They might still be getting that.

  9. #9
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people think owners live in fear of Stern. He's their employee.
    He can issue them whatever fines he wants to and there are plenty of people (me not being one of them) who think Stern has refs throw games against owners he doesn't like. If there's an owner who does believe that, he's gonna naturally fear Stern in some ways.

  10. #10
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    He can issue them whatever fines he wants to
    With the blessing of the owners as a whole.
    and there are plenty of people (me not being one of them) who think Stern has refs throw games against owners he doesn't like.
    If you don't believe it, why bring it up?
    If there's an owner who does believe that, he's gonna naturally fear Stern in some ways.
    If there is an owner who believes that, he's kind of an idiot for owning an NBA team.

  11. #11
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    And no, teams don't cover all their own losses. , until the league took over the Hornets, they received a direct multimillion dollar subsidy from the state of Louisiana every year. They might still be getting that.
    The funding they got from parties outside of the NBA is irrelevant. If the WNBA was getting government subsidies to cover its losses, I wouldn't have made this thread. Do you know of a situation where the NBA itself is covering the losses of a team?

    I'm pretty sure if owners in the NBA didn't have to cover losses, there'd be plenty of teams spending like Cuban and Buss do.

  12. #12
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    If you don't believe it, why bring it up?
    Because my personal belief is irrelevant. It's about certain owners who fear Stern, and it's naive to think theories that got a well respected coach (George Karl) to admit his fear of Stern/NBA officials on national TV haven't hit home with a few NBA owners. I personally believe you shouldn't be watching the NBA if you think it's rigged, but it's impossible to deny that there are an alarmingly high amount of people who think the NBA is rigged compared to other sports like the NFL or MLB.

    If there is an owner who believes that, he's kind of an idiot for owning an NBA team.
    Won't deny that, owners are also dumb for giving out contracts they can't afford.

  13. #13
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    This thread needs some mutha ing Koolaid in it..


    what's up Ephailtes *aka* Leetonidas

  14. #14
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    The funding they got from parties outside of the NBA is irrelevant. If the WNBA was getting government subsidies to cover its losses, I wouldn't have made this thread. Do you know of a situation where the NBA itself is covering the losses of a team?
    There are a few revenue sharing agreements already in place.

    I'm pretty sure if owners in the NBA didn't have to cover losses, there'd be plenty of teams spending like Cuban and Buss do.
    Then why don't WNBA teams spend in the same way?

    Not all their losses are covered either.

  15. #15
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    Back on topic, I guess it's not about fear as much as it is owners not bothering to mention something Stern won't even entertain. It seems obvious that Stern would have to get incredibly desperate before deciding to give up on the WNBA.

  16. #16
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Back on topic, I guess it's not about fear as much as it is owners not bothering to mention something Stern won't even entertain. It seems obvious that Stern would have to get incredibly desperate before deciding to give up on the WNBA.
    If a great majority of the NBA owners wanted to scrap the WNBA, how could Stern stop it?

    You guys ascribe way too much power to this guy.

  17. #17
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    There are a few revenue sharing agreements already in place.
    Revenue sharing and subsidies to cover for losses are two completely different things. If after revenue sharing and everything else a team is still in the reds, I don't think the NBA covers losses. Cuban for example, operates at a loss every year because he can afford it. I don't think the NBA covers any of his losses.

    Then why don't WNBA teams spend in the same way?

    Not all their losses are covered either.
    This thread wasn't about WNBA teams. I was talking the WNBA league itself. It can't operate on its own. If it could and the issue was a few WNBA teams losing money, I wouldn't suggest killing the WNBA entirely. And obviously the WNBA spends more than it can afford given it needs NBA aide to stay alive.

  18. #18
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    If a great majority of the NBA owners wanted to scrap the WNBA, how could Stern stop it?
    So you're saying NBA owners, including the ones who don't own a WNBA team, have the power to scrap the WNBA at any time? News to me.

  19. #19
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So then what incentive do the owners have to keep it around?
    There could be plenty of reasons. I'm sure they lose money on NBA Cares too. Why is no one talking about scrapping that?

  20. #20
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So you're saying NBA owners, including the ones who don't own a WNBA team, have the power to scrap the WNBA at any time? News to me.
    They would certainly have the power to end the subsidies. Why would they not?

  21. #21
    One of the most best jag's Avatar
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    There isn't a commentator or reporter who really wants address why the WNBA still exists. It's almost a taboo subject. If any ESPN sportscaster came out and said the WNBA was a drain on the NBA, he'd most likely be fired.

    Very few people actually care about women's sports in general. And the WNBA is kept alive, not because people actually want to watch it, but because we're all sitting around pretending that women can do anything men can do.

    I dont even want to imagine the PR hit Stern would take if the WNBA were dissolved. Every sports personality sitting in front of a camera on ESPN/TNT/Fox would pretend it was some kind of travesty.

  22. #22
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    They would certainly have the power to end the subsidies. Why would they not?
    Because they don't have complete control over the NBA's cash flow and operations. If they did, there wouldn't be things like 6 figure fines for bad mouthing officials. I'm pretty sure the league gets a certain percentage of total revenue every years owners have no control over.

  23. #23
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    There isn't a commentator or reporter who really wants address why the WNBA still exists. It's almost a taboo subject. If any ESPN sportscaster came out and said the WNBA was a drain on the NBA, he'd most likely be fired.
    It would be kind of dumb for an ESPN sportscaster to talk about his own network's programming.

  24. #24
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    There isn't a commentator or reporter who really wants address why the WNBA still exists. It's almost a taboo subject. If any ESPN sportscaster came out and said the WNBA was a drain on the NBA, he'd most likely be fired.

    Very few people actually care about women's sports in general. And the WNBA is kept alive, not because people actually want to watch it, but because we're all sitting around pretending that women can do anything men can do.

    I dont even want to imagine the PR hit Stern would take if the WNBA were dissolved. Every sports personality sitting in front of a camera on ESPN/TNT/Fox would pretend it was some kind of travesty.
    Jim Rome has actually gone on several rants basically saying, "I've accepted the fact the WNBA is something Stern is gonna do whatever it takes to keep around and will keep on life support as long as he can, I just don't wanna hear about it as much as I have to."

  25. #25
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Because they don't have complete control over the NBA's cash flow and operations.
    Really?

    Who does?

    Their employee, David Stern?

    If they did, there wouldn't be things like 6 figure fines for bad mouthing officials.
    That's a power they gave their employee, David Stern.
    I'm pretty sure the league gets a certain percentage of total revenue every years owners have no control over.
    And who set the league up to do that?

    You're acting like the NBA is an en y unto itself and Stern is allowing the owners to participate in it.

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