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Bird, no question. He could score, rebound, pass (IMO best passing SF ever) and defend. Sure, Pippen was likely the better defender, but in all other categories I give the advantage to Bird.
My friend is arguing Scottie Pippen is better than Larry Bird. He was a better defender and his offensive skills are underrated and not that far off from Bird. You're starting a franchise today, who do you take and why?
Bird, no question. He could score, rebound, pass (IMO best passing SF ever) and defend. Sure, Pippen was likely the better defender, but in all other categories I give the advantage to Bird.
Blasphemy. Bird is way better than Pippen. Jordan made everyone around him better. Look how Pippen looked with the Rockets and Blazers.
Bird. No question.
if its an argument of who has a more complete all-around game, then there is a debate to be had. but better basketball player? no debate at all exists.
bird couldnt defend worth a , not sure what you are talking about
and make no mistake, Pippen could most definitely hold his own in the rebounding and passing department as well. He was a very underrated passer. Not quite as flashy as Bird (which causes some people to overrate his passing at times), but still a very precise, smart passer. their assist averages are pretty close actually, and keep in mind, Pippen played most of his career in a slower paced era where there were less possessions per game on average. stats from the 80s and prior are generally more inflated due to this.
I'm not trying to say Pippen > Bird, but I do think Pippen definitely has a case for being a more well-rounded player. I also think people often overrate players like Bird and Magic, simply due to nostalgia. Both are great, and top 10 players of all time, but when people start to forget the fact that they had flaws, and start saying that they were great defenders, and other false claims, it gets ridiculous.
Exaggeration. Bird wasn't a great defender, not in Pippen's class, but he wasn't a turnstile.
maybe for the 80s, when no one played a lick of defense, he was average. but in todays league? his defense would be on par with steve nash.
If I'm starting a franchise today, I'm taking Pippen. Players are more athletic than they were in the 80's and while Bird was a decent defender, he wouldn't be able to hold Carmelo, Durant, Kobe, Lebron, etc. today. Pippen on the other hand could do it all today.
The one edge Bird had over Pippen was that he was the #1 option. On the other hand, Bird had a lot of other complimentary pieces while Pippen didn't have much outside of Jordan
stretch
the black man by a mile
I love Pippen, really do. Think he is one of the finest perimeter defensive player ever, and most definitely one of the best passing forwards.
That said, Bird was just better. Better shooter, better passer, better rebounder, it's the leadership skills and the vision that Bird has that really puts him above all other SFs in the history of the league.
lol someone disagrees with you
the steal right in front of Jordan's face at the 1:54 mark was pretty nice, imo
Bird blocking Pippen's shot and then blocking Jordan's follow at the 2:06 was pretty neat too.
Last edited by Blake; 07-27-2011 at 03:51 PM.
This. Thanks for making my point clear.
I wasn't referring to today's defense. In the 80's Bird wasn't a defensive stalwart, but he wasn't a liability either. He could hold his man. Sure, not on Pippen's level though.
And yes, in today's league the story might be a different one concerning Bird. Here I agree with you, stretch.
Pippen was in MJ's massive shadow and does not get the props he deserved. Bird is a better shooter, but in my mind that's it. Pip - not MJ - took on the opposing best perimeter player more often than not. This allowed MJ to score at will. Pip was their PG too (not Hodges, Paxon, or Kerr).
People that saw him in Portland and H-Town saw him past his prime. Pip in his prime would shut down his man on the regular. Very underrated.
Ring smack time... 6>3. Before anyone comes up with some bull MJ argument consider this: Bird played on a HOF frontline with a HOF PG. Yet Pip still had more rings (also MJ HASN't won without him).
a certified re like LkrFan would make that argument.
It's like comparing Russel to Chamberlain. One is an excellent leader and a solid contributor, but the other is a better individual player. Bird wasn't half the defender or athlete Pippen was, but Pippen wasn't half the leader Bird was.
All in all, it would come to how you define better. A better individual player or a better franchise player & team leader. Bird if I needed a star, Pippen if I already had a star.
He's got great hands and otherworldly anticipation, but I didn't see him actually bend his knees, get into a stance, and defend somebody in that entire video.
If steals and blocks = great defense then Amare Stoudemire and Monta Ellis are two of the NBA's best defensive players right now.
What can Bird do that Pip can't numbnutz? There are two sides of the court you know...
I know dirk4mvp is on the right in your avatar, but who is is boo on the left?
LkrFan is not only a certified re but he's reaching for anything he can right now. It's okay guy, just keep being the Laker fan on ST no one gives a about.
this. and despite of his lack of athleticism, Bird was a better rebounder. Definitely the better passer, shooter and clutch performer.
Pippen's edges were defensively and as a ball handler (dribble), as a 1 on 1 defender, and at applying ball pressure.
Pippen was not very clutch. most clutch plays by the 90's Bull teams were made by: MJ, Kerr, Paxson and even Kukoc (in an infamous playoff spot).
Pippen was great, but most of his clutch plays were made on defense which is important, but to me puts him behind Larry ...who btw has one of the most famous clutch defensive plays of all time ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 07-27-2011 at 04:16 PM.
The subject of Pippen comes up quite often between me and my good friend who was a Bulls fan in the 90's.
To this day, he keeps talking about how OVERRATED Pippen is. That when watching the last 3 championships, in particular, MJ was dragging Pippen by the wag of his tongue to get them to the championships...
A very good player. Sure. All star. Sure. Perfect fit for MJ, sure. Not a top 50 all time player.
yeah but Pippen has 3 more rings
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