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  1. #1
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    if Perry had his way, all the states would do as Texas did in 2003 when lawmakers enacted legislation, which he championed, limiting the amount of money juries can award patients who win malpractice lawsuits against doctors and hospitals. The legislation capped non-economic (pain and suffering) damages at $250,000 in lawsuits against doctors and $750,000 against hospitals. A few months after he signed the bill into law, the state’s voters narrowly passed a cons utional amendment, also endorsed by Perry, which had the same effect. Proponents of the amendment wanted to be sure the new law would be cons utional.

    Texas, he wrote in that 2009 commentary “stands as a good example of how smart, responsible policy can help us take major steps toward fixing a damaged medical system, starting with legal reforms.”

    As a result of the 2003 tort reform law, malpractice liability insurers reduced their rates in Texas and, according to Perry, the number of doctors applying to practice medicine in the state “skyrocketed.”

    He says that in the first five years after tort reform was enacted, 14,498 doctors either returned to practice in Texas or began practicing there for the first time.

    That certainly sounds impressive—so long as you look at that number in isolation. But when you look at how Texas stacks up with the rest of the country in terms of physician growth in direct patient care, tort reform appears to have given Texas no leg up in compe ion with others states for doctors. In fact, according to statistics compiled by the American Medical Association and other physician organizations, Texas has actually lost ground when it comes to the number of doctors practicing in the state since tort reform was enacted. Big time.

    In 2008, the number of physicians in patient care per 10,000 civilian population in the United States was 25.7. At just 20.2 doctors per 10,000 people, Texas ranked near the bottom of the 50 states. In fact, only nine states fared worse. In 2000, three years before tort reform, Texas was still bringing up the rear, but not as badly. Back then, 11 states fared worse than the Lone Star state.

    Even more revealing, the number of doctors in patient care increased 13.2 percent nationwide from 2000 to 2008. It increased only 12.8 percent in Texas. The rate of growth was actually greater in 41 other states and in Washington, D.C. than it was in the Lone Star state.

    It is true that malpractice insurance rates dropped in Texas after tort reform was enacted, but Texans would be hard pressed to claim any direct benefit from that drop—except, that is, Texans who are doctors.

    The Dallas Morning News published a chart earlier this year showing that the average malpractice rate charged ob/gyns in Texas by the state’s largest domestic insurer of physicians fell from $53,752 in 2003 to $33,881 in 2011. The paper reported drops of similar percentages for doctors in family practice and general surgery.

    Advocates of tort reform have long claimed that one of the reasons for escalating health care costs is the “defensive medicine” doctors practice, such as over-treating and prescribing more medications and diagnostic tests than necessary, out of fear of being sued. Well, if Texans believed their own health insurance rates would go down once tort reform made defensive medicine less prevalent, they have by now been disabused of that notion. The chances of a Texas family saving a few bucks on premiums would actually be greater if they moved to another state.

    In 2010, the average premium for family coverage in Texas was $14,526. That’s $655 higher than the U.S. average. Those numbers seem to indicate that doctors have not passed on their own insurance savings to their patients and that they are not practicing medicine any less defensively than before tort reform was enacted.

    http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/09/01...t-reform-texas

    =======

    tort reform as a means to reduce sick-care costs is just another sick-care industry lie

  2. #2
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    Have you seen the HBO do entary Hot Coffee, that focuses on tort reform?

    The le refers to the infamous McDonald's spilled coffee case which has entered into national consciousness. And of course, "national consciousness" most often means a stupidity and ignorance that borders on arrogance.

    Everyone has an opinion on that case, right? Lady spills coffee on herself while driving her car, subsequently sues McDonald's and gets rewarded millions of dollars. This case is has become part of our folklore about greedy plaintiffs and lawyers, and about how we tort reform.

    From a movie review:
    ...She asks people on the street about the woman who spilled the coffee on herself. To a person, each of them believes Liebeck’s case was to some degree egregious on the plaintiff’s part. Then Saladoff shows them the gruesome photos of Liebeck’s burned groin. Instantly, opinions waver.
    - more-
    Here's the photos of the woman's actual burns, and a link to a page with a lot of facts about the infamous coffee case and other cases covered in the film.




    The basic problem is that the people who support tort reform movements believe they are helping to do away with “frivolous” law suits….until they get injured. When they are injured and realize that the cap on their damages creates a situation where it is impossible to get the money the injured party needs to simply pay their medical bills for the rest of their life, they realize that a system that has enacted “tort reform” has no ability to discriminate the frivolous suits from the legitimate ones. So good people who are legitimately hurt and have legitimate bills to pay as a result of the negligence of another, are left with no recourse.
    - more -

  3. #3
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Public service announcement:


    Don't drive with a styrofoam cup of boiling liquid between your thighs.

  4. #4
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    Was she driving when she tried to open it?

  5. #5
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Was she driving when she tried to open it?
    Don't know. Thought she ordered it at drive thru.

  6. #6
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    This just in: Coffee is extremely hot

  7. #7
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    In an ideal world, I'm ok with capping punitive damages.
    What I'm afraid of is that the powers that be will lobby to set the caps too low. And once you open up that can of worms, then more lobbying will ensue to drive it lower and lower.

  8. #8
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    This just in: Coffee is extremely hot
    If it's hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns, it shouldn't be served at a drive thru in a styrofoam cup. And it's not as if McDonald's didn't know people were burning themselves with it.

  9. #9
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    public service announcement
    40% more one on food stamps under this guy in the whitehouse
    35% more debt under this guy on the whitehouse
    yeah this guy white house sure changed the USA to bad it went the wrong way HUH
    YOU VOTED FOR HIM I SURE AS DID NOT

  10. #10
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    In 2008, the number of physicians in patient care per 10,000 civilian population in the United States was 25.7. At just 20.2 doctors per 10,000 people, Texas ranked near the bottom of the 50 states. In fact, only nine states fared worse. In 2000, three years before tort reform, Texas was still bringing up the rear, but not as badly. Back then, 11 states fared worse than the Lone Star state.
    The author should have compared the list of states physicians per 10k population with the list of states with the fastest population growth. He might have noticed something.

  11. #11
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    capping lawsuits would lower insurance cost and hostpitals and doctors would charge less

  12. #12
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    capping lawsuits would lower insurance cost and hostpitals and doctors would charge less
    You didn't actually read the OP, did you?

  13. #13
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    capping lawsuits would lower insurance cost and hostpitals and doctors would charge less
    Maybe we should just ban personal injury lawsuits altogether.

    Why cap -- that's a compromise. Why not just go all the way?

    If people get hurt or killed, oh well; at least the stuff they buy and the services they seek will be cheaper, right?

  14. #14
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    Don't drive with a styrofoam cup of boiling liquid between your thighs.
    Was she driving when she tried to open it?
    Don't know. Thought she ordered it at drive thru.
    More drive by chicanery from Mr. Darrin. The text in red would have sufficed.

  15. #15
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Maybe we should just ban personal injury lawsuits altogether.

    Why cap -- that's a compromise. Why not just go all the way?

    If people get hurt or killed, oh well; at least the stuff they buy and the services they seek will be cheaper, right?
    Free!!!!

  16. #16
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    Public service announcement:


    Don't drive with a styrofoam cup of boiling liquid between your thighs.
    Best to know some facts before drawing conclusions, don't you think?

    In the Liebeck v. McDonalds case, here’s what the media failed to mention: Ms. Liebeck wasn’t even driving. She was in the passenger seat with her nephew who had just accepted food from the drive-thru.

    Ms. Liebeck attempted to settle with McDonalds for $20,000 to cover her past medical expenses, future medical expenses and loss of income. McDonalds countered with a settlement offer of $800.

    $800 for:
    The coffee scalded Mr. Liebeck’s groin, thighs, and buttocks and, after going to the hospital, where she remained for eight days, it was determined that there were third-degree burns on six percent of her body and lesser burns over 16%. During her hospital stay, Ms. Liebeck lost 20 pounds (which lowered her weight to 83 pounds) as she underwent multiple skin graft operations. Two more years of treatment and more skin grafting would be necessary.

    The trial also revealed that McDonalds had over 700 burn complaints prior to Ms. Liebeck’s law suit for their hot coffee. McDonalds quality-control manager explained that, in his opinion, such a “small” number of complaints did not warrant the company to take any action.

    BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT SHE SPILLED THE COFFEE? ITS NOT LIKE A MCDONALD’S EMPLOYEE THREW COFFEE AT HER!!!! What also went under-reported is the fact that the jury considered this information and apportioned her with 20% of the fault associated with spilling the coffee. As would happen in any trial, this apportionment of liability, by the jury, reduced Ms. Liebeck’s verdict by 20%.

    In the end, the jury awarded $160K in compensatory damages (medical bills, lost wages, pain & suffering) and $2.7 Million in punitive damages. The punitive damages represented two-days’ worth of McDonald’s coffee sales.

    What also went largely unreported is the fact that the $2.7MM in punitives was reduced, by the judge, to $480K. Not only that, but Ms. Liebeck settled her case with McDonald’s for an undisclosed sum before the case could go up on appeal.

    - more -

  17. #17
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    capping lawsuits would lower insurance cost and hostpitals and doctors would charge less
    It was pointed out that (in the do entary film Hot Coffee), in states where insurance companies (for-profit ins utions that have shareholders) benefit from caps….there is no rule that savings have to be passed down to policy holders.

    - more -

  18. #18
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    You continue to ignore the fact that SpursTalk posters are significantly more qualified to make judgments than people who have what you liberals like to refer to as "facts."

  19. #19
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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  20. #20
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    the only people you liberals want to every kill is babies
    not murders

  21. #21
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You didn't actually read the OP, did you?
    The OP cobbled together statistics that were only loosely related.

    Key fact...

    Insurance prices dropped.

    Texas went from #11 to #10 from the bottom. Did the get worse, or someone get better? Did they get better, but another state even better yet?

    Where is the proper context to compare?

    How many people I wonder cross the border for treatment?

  22. #22
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Maybe we should just ban personal injury lawsuits altogether.

    Why cap -- that's a compromise. Why not just go all the way?

    If people get hurt or killed, oh well; at least the stuff they buy and the services they seek will be cheaper, right?
    If I read that right, the damages were not capped. Just the punitive costs.

  23. #23
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    More drive by chicanery from Mr. Darrin. The text in red would have sufficed.
    I think we all agree that the coffee was too hot for the cir stances, but really now...

    Where is the personal responsibility?

  24. #24
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    the only people you liberals want to every kill is babies
    not murders
    Yep...

    Slaughter the innocent, but coddle the murderer.

  25. #25
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    Where is the personal responsibility?
    Dunno, possibly awash in the steam bath that was her coffee?

    What if she had burned her tongue or scalded her throat? Aside from the magnitude of the calamity, whats different?

    I think we all agree that the coffee was too hot for the cir stances, but really now...
    Is there ever a cir stance where coffee should be served if it's capable of causing third degree burns?

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