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That sound you just heard was the sound of Whottt's jaw dropping realizing alot of his arguement against Avery Johnson just went down the ter."I'd take Tony Parker over the point guard in 1999," AJ said. "Let's be honest."
Buck Harvey: How good are they? If Spurs press on
DETROIT — Avery Johnson started to compare the Spurs' first championship team to these Spurs, and he stopped. He wanted to get one thing straight.
"I'd take Tony Parker over the point guard in 1999," AJ said. "Let's be honest."
He isn't sure about the rest, since these Finals aren't over yet. If the Pistons recover, these Spurs will be compared to last year's Spurs.
But that's what tonight is about, besides pushing Detroit to the brink. If the Spurs play as they have these past few weeks — combining the marvel that is Manu with Gregg Popovich's defense — how high do they rank in history?
To some, the Spurs might look no more exceptional than the 2003 champs. That group hiccupped through the playoffs, saved ultimately by Stephen Jackson and Steve Kerr, an odd pair of 3-point shooters.
These Spurs finished with 59 victories in the regular season, just one more than Johnson's Mavericks, and they ended as the second seed. They lost their first game in the playoffs, and then Seattle, without two of its best shooters, extended the Spurs to six games.
But there was a time earlier this season when the Spurs won games by an average margin that ranked with the best ever. Had Tim Duncan not fallen to injury, coincidentally in Detroit, how would the Spurs have finished?
With 65 victories? As the overwhelming favorite?
Johnson sees the other side. "If they had won 65 games," Johnson says, "who knows if they would have been this good."
Without Duncan around to "bail them out," Johnson says the Spurs grew into something else entirely. Parker and Manu Ginobili learned to live without a dominant big man, and others filled holes and became closer.
"Even though they lost some games then," Johnson said, "they won."
Then came some luck. The Spurs got whole again just in time for the playoffs, and surviving challenges from two rugged teams — Denver and Seattle — only made them stronger.
From Johnson: "They figured, 'Once we can piece this thing together, our experience with our core guys is so much greater, we know we can get it rolling.'"
Rolling is a good word. Ginobili found Duncan to close out the Sonics, and it was a playoff-altering moment that built belief. The Spurs knew they could make plays when it mattered, and since then the Spurs have been what they were in January, taking six of seven against the Suns and Pistons.
Why the defending champs should worry tonight: If the Spurs can win three road games in Phoenix, against a 62-win team, what else is possible?
For one, ending the Finals in Detroit. And if the Spurs do that, they will look a lot like the first Spurs le team.
Those Spurs went 15-2, sweeping both the Lakers and Blazers along the way. Johnson led an efficient if ponderous scheme, and he also threw in the final jumper to beat the Knicks.
Parker should have such a moment this week.
But Johnson doesn't want to even weigh the good and bad between point guards. "Tony talks in French and I talk in Cajun," Johnson said. "Who would you rather have?"
Johnson is more serious when rating the other matchups. For example, he says "This Pop is better. He's expanded his game, he has more experience. And he's a softy now."
Sean Elliott vs. Bruce Bowen? "They talk about Bowen playing great defense," Johnson said. "But I don't know if Sean wasn't as good."
Johnson naturally would take David Robinson of 1999 over Nazr Mohammed. "You couldn't drive on us then," he said.
As for the one who would try to drive no matter: "Ginobili is pretty special right now. In a basketball game, yeah, I'd maybe go with Manu. But in a fight? I'd want Mario Elie."
Surprisingly, Johnson would take the younger Duncan. "I haven't seen Tim play in the playoffs like he did then. What Tim did in the Finals against the Knicks was pretty special. If it's that Tim against this Tim, that Tim wins."
But is this Tim required to do as much? With better offensive players around, isn't Duncan better now because he can do less?
Johnson admits this: "There is more ball movement now. More versatility. And this team is deeper."
So who wins?
Johnson stopped there.
The answer depends on what happens this wee
That sound you just heard was the sound of Whottt's jaw dropping realizing alot of his arguement against Avery Johnson just went down the ter."I'd take Tony Parker over the point guard in 1999," AJ said. "Let's be honest."
Avery Johnson is owed an apology by half of this forum.
for what?
leave it to the ^^ to be dense.....
I'm WITH you, AJ."I'd take Tony Parker over the point guard in 1999," AJ said. "Let's be honest."
Tony is faster & better. and can get us to the finals even with the only one of the remaining Twin Towers, who is not 100% healthy.
a little help from ManuI'm WITH you, AJ.
Tony is faster & better. and can get us to the finals even with the only one of the remaining Twin Towers, who is not 100% healthy.
Do tell Mr. 14,000 posts, what am i being dense about?
TPark and TimVP think AJ is owed an apology because he once talked about Tony Parker and now he realizes what a fool he was to do so...
I don't see any need to give AJ an apology...he still what he said originally. AJ was the one that owed the apology...in fact I think that is what he just tried to do. He owes more apologies.
I am still not sold on the little Hitler's sincerity though...
Sean Elliot's jersey retirement was basically a plea to accept AJ as a jersey retirement candidate...
The Spurs and their players are well aware of the fact that AJ isn't as popularly recieved as a jersey retirement candidate as our last two retirees were...they've all mentioned it. This could just be a little PR work...or it truly could be the realization that he was an idiot for trashign a player whose jock he isn't fit to carry.
I'll give AJ credit for the public gesture...he damn sure isn't getting an apology, because he did diss Parker for absolutely no reason other than headedness...
If some guy murders someone and then comes out and says muder is wrong...you don't apologize for calling him a murderer.
Maybe it was Drob imagining in the paper what he could have done with Parker and Manu as his guards that woke AJ up and made him realize that he was the lucky one.
Keep it up AJ...there may still be hope for you.
Now all you have to do is comeout and say your jersey doesn't deserve to be retired and publicly offer Manu your #6. Then just maybe you'll be worthy of being the least deserving jersey retiree.
What did AJ say about Parker exactly?
what the does avery johnson have to apologize about? who the is that stupid?
Buck copied my Irony thread.Johnson sees the other side. "If they had won 65 games," Johnson says, "who knows if they would have been this good."
Without Duncan around to "bail them out," Johnson says the Spurs grew into something else entirely. Parker and Manu Ginobili learned to live without a dominant big man, and others filled holes and became closer.
The 99 championship has an asterrisk, this one will not.
Nuff said.
1999 Spurs vs 2005 Spurs?
I'd like to see Tim and David defend Manu. Seriously. I'm not even going to try and predict it, but it'd sure be fun to watch.
But for the record, I think the 2005 Spurs would run circles around the 1999 Spurs. Plus, 2005 Spurs have more 3-point shooters, no?
AJ. he is still overrated.
Although the 99 team won the championship the offense was terrible and not much fun to watch. I'll take the current Spurs who can play great at both ends of the court over the 99 team.
Oh, for the folks wondering about the AJ/TP controversy, back in 2003 AJ said something to the effect of the Spurs "sending a boy to do a man's job" in regards to the Spurs point guard situation. Obviously, that didn't sit well with a lot of people. I personally thought it was a strange parallel to the '99 Stoudemire statement that no team could win it all with AJ at the point.
It was funny at the time...Manu didn't have a clue whose jersey it was and it was the Spurs that gave it to him...
And the Spurs and Pop knew it was AJ's jersey they were giving to him...
To quote Pop at the time: the last guy to wear that jersey hit a championship winning shot(this is way over glamourized by the way).
Then all the AJ nazis had a cow over it and acted like Manu was trying leech off the greatness of the little scrub. As they ripped the jersey out of his hands.
I think even at the time some elightened Spursfans like myself and AHF(on one of his smart days) were embarassed over the entire ordeal...and knew what a joke it was going to turn out to be...
IF anyone ever doubts that Manu is a total winner...remember that without even having a clue what he was doing...he nearly saved the franchise from the great mistake it will ever make...Retiring AJ's jersey.
Never send a scrub to do a worthy players job(up in the rafters)..
We ought to take a poll to see if Manu's jersey is more worthy of retirement already than AJ's...It is...but I just wonder how many Spurs fans realize it.
AJ was the first winner in SA.
id the love matchup between duncans
Maybe this is AJ's way of recanting what he said earlier.
without AJ there is no ring in 99.
But Whottt will continue to hate.
Its ok to hate AJ, but dont you dare hate on the stud Brenda Barry.
We ought to take a poll to see if Manu's jersey is more worthy of retirement already than AJ's...It is...but I just wonder how many Spurs fans realize it.
Amen to that.
Are we going to retire the entire 1999 roster? Is mario elie next?
Look, the 1999 Spurs team was great, it won the first Championship, and that should always be remembered.
But if you start retiring every players Jersey whose won a Championship in San Antonio, soon Gervin, Robinson and Elliot will be lost.
Let's save those retirement ceremonies for the truly great ones. AJ was great, but is he Robinson great? Gervin great?
I actually had a little problem with Sean Elliot's jersey being retired, but playing through what he went through, and the Memorial Day Miracle pretty much guaranteed him a spot.
I hope there won't be any more jersey's going up anytime soon, 'cause the next ones up should be Manu's and Tim's.
I actually had a little problem with Sean Elliot's jersey being retired
20 points a game, multi all star, world champion, fantastic defender.
Nah he wasnt worth it. Get real.
You obviously werent around in the 90s for Sean Elliott.
No problem with that. But then you say this:
Sorry, but if Manu's career ended today, he doesn't deserve a jersey retirement. He's had one good season, and two okay seasons with the Spurs. He needs at least 3-4 more high-level years before you can even talk start to talk about it.I hope there won't be any more jersey's going up anytime soon, 'cause the next ones up should be Manu's and Tim's.
Larry Kenon and Mike Mitc right now deserve to have their jerseys retired more than Manu. Why is the standard being lowered for him?
I think Ninja was great, but I still think retiring #32 was nothing more than a well-said "F-U" to one Karl Malone, who wouldn't / didn't sign in SA this year. The timing of the announcement came as Malone was still hemming and hawing about whether he was going to come back and if so, where he would play. IMO, the Spurs had waited long enough for him, and the retirement of #32 was their clear signal to Malone they were no longer interested. IMO, Elliott certainly deserved the retirement of his number, but if Malone had signed, all parties would have easily waited until next year.
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