Charley Rosen / Special to FOXSports.com
How can you call Manu Ginobili defensively challenged? He is a far better defender than almost all the other shooting guards in the league, including some with better reputations such as Kobe. — Peter Rumm
Ginobili's characteristic man-to-man defense consists of various gambles. Mostly trying to intercept entry passes, and sometimes trying to reach out and touch his opponent's last dribble before he spins, crosses-over, or otherwise changes direction. With his quick hands, Ginobili is frequently successful and the results are often spectacular. His failures, though, are often hidden by the Spurs' rotating to help him. But, even so, when Ginobili's gambles come up empty, both the integrity and balance of San Antonio's defense are severely compromised — and one of the Spurs' bigs is liable to pick up a foul.
That said, Ginobili plays excellent team defense, and he's also adept at forcing his opponent into pre-designed help areas. Yet because his quickness and anticipation are his primary defensive weapons, any opponent who can create and maintain body-to-body contact can put Ginobili in an extremely vulnerable position. The slower the pace of the game, the more at risk is Ginobili's defense.
When Kobe Bryant is properly motivated (which has happened only sporadically in the past two seasons), he is by far the best defender at the position. Those whose defensive capabilities likewise exceeds Ginobili's include Ira Newble, Greg Buckner, Michael Curry (when he's healthy), Corey Maggette, Kerry Kittles, James Posey (when he's in shape), Eddie Jones, Shandon Anderson, Erick Strickland, Trenton Hassell, Richard Jefferson, Doug Christie, Stacy Augmon, Aaron McKie, Andre Iguodala, Ruben Patterson, Gordan Giricek, Larry Hughes, and Raja Bell.
The defense rests.
Rest of the article
BTW, the question was from SpursTalk poster, Rummpd
This dude's a moron. He aslo stated that nash was goning to dominate parker and that nash is the most dominant pg since magic, I wish the guy would do his homework. I pointed out that in the reg season parker had better stats.
It is true that manu gambles on d. Maybe a little more on some occassions. But wouldn't you if you had duncan/nazr in the front court?
When he gambled in game 3 I think it hurt the sas defense.
Manu does gamble on D, but I can't believe he listed all those guys as better defenders than Manu
Ira Newble?! Raja Bell?! Is this guy insane?! I want whatever this guy is smoking.
I wouldn't put Manu on the All NBA Defensive Team anytime soon, but he's by no means "defensively challenged." He's done a much better job this year of choosing when to take his gambles. He rarely gets burned like he used to, and I think his ability to create turnovers makes up for any slight defeciencies he might have "manning up" to the opponent.
Unfair knock on Ginobili. I think he unfairly assumes that Ginobili would go for those risky moves if he didn't have a pair of shot blockers backing him. He's a pretty smart player and from where I'm sitting it seems like those gambles pay off more than they backfire.
Those guys hardly even play how can he compare. Gino was 11th in the league in steals per game.
Okay...yeah Manu isn't going to deserve any All Defensive Team awards or anything, but damn no way does he rank below Ira Newble and Raja Bell.
Ira and Raja are actually pretty good defensive players.
That's what I was going to say.
maybe, but to say they are better than Ginobilli??
I think Manu is a really good defender, and would not call him defensively challenged. But, as to Ira Newble and Raja Bell, those two are excellent perimeter defenders. So, it's not really a knock on Manu. Raja Bell is one of the tougher big guards when it comes to bodying up on a slasher, and he has very quick feet. And, Ira Newble is long and strong for a two guard with good defensive fundamentals.
I agree with all of that, I just wouldn't say they are "better" than Manu. I simply don't agree with Rosen's assessment that Manu isn't at least a part of that list.
Since I dont pay attention to those guys that may be true. I guess they just dont put up the numbers, kinda like Brucie.
All the little things that dont get on paper huh? Speaking of which why is Bruce not on that list?
That's a whole other list.
i just wish the guy gave me more of a reason than the fact that manu attempts a lot of steals. give me an assist/turnover ratio or number of turnovers per game or points allowed or something other than just saying the guy tries to hard to take the ball away.
My problem with this list of guys is that he put conditions on so many of them .. if Kobe's motivated, if Curry's healthy, if Posey's in shape. And others are old -- Augmon is almost 37, Eddie Jones is 34 (I think). They shouldn't be on there just for past reputation. And what about Giricek? Why is he on there?When Kobe Bryant is properly motivated (which has happened only sporadically in the past two seasons), he is by far the best defender at the position. Those whose defensive capabilities likewise exceeds Ginobili's include Ira Newble, Greg Buckner, Michael Curry (when he's healthy), Corey Maggette, Kerry Kittles, James Posey (when he's in shape), Eddie Jones, Shandon Anderson, Erick Strickland, Trenton Hassell, Richard Jefferson, Doug Christie, Stacy Augmon, Aaron McKie, Andre Iguodala, Ruben Patterson, Gordan Giricek, Larry Hughes, and Raja Bell.
Some of these guys are good defenders and maybe equal to Manu in defensive worth though different types of defenders. But to say all these guys are better than Manu is weak.
hater
Beat me to it. Well said.Okay...yeah Manu isn't going to deserve any All Defensive Team awards or anything, but damn no way does he rank below Ira Newble and Raja Bell.
Eddie Jones is a great defender? That how come Wonder boy Dwayne Wade got put on the All defensive SECOND team!
I think Manu has done as good a job on Rip (at least first two games) as Bruce has, even though Manu only played him in spot minutes.
I agree that Manu has toned down his gambling for steals, and picks and chooses when to go after the ball. And, it's right that in the Spurs defensive schemes and with guys like Tim and Nazr (even Rasho last year had his fair share of blocks), a perimeter defender can afford to gamble a little more.
Charlie Rosen is a Phil Jackson lover, and consequently, rides the Laker jock like a french . Kobe is a GREAT DEFENDER when he wants to be. But, I agree with most of you Spurs fans when you say that Rosen was ridiculous to put ALL OF THOSE PLAYERS ahead of Manu in terms of defense.
In my opinion, the only guys on that list that are clearly better than Manu are: Kobe, Artest, Doug Christie (but barely at his age), Larry Hughes (though he gambles a lot too), Corey Maggette, James Posey (I think he's as good as any perimeter defender not named Bruce or Ron), Richard Jefferson, and Ruben Patterson. And, oh yeah, why didn't Rosen mention Bruce or Tayshaun?
The other guys are either too old or still have a lot to learn. I would easily put Manu in the class of a Raja Bell, Ira Newble, and Trenton Hassell. Don't know if I would say any are better than the other. But, Manu is definitely right up there in the second tier of perimeter wing defenders.
The fix is in. The press is piling up on Manu, and the Spurs, as their star rises.
"Ginobili's characteristic man-to-man defense consists of various gambles."
Starts with, is based on this BS claim. Manu's defense "consists" of tons of various efforts, of which his gambles are only a tiny %age.
"Yet because his quickness and anticipation are his primary defensive weapons, any opponent who can create and maintain body-to-body contact can put Ginobili in an extremely vulnerable position."
Turning Manu's talent, skills, and hustle into negatives. GMAFB.
"any opponent"?? How many (nameless, of course) individuals are really capable to of
out-offense-ing Manu's defense?
And, for the few playrees that can/do do it infrequently, does it matter greatly in the Spurs team defense?
Is it Manu's fault the Spurs have klutzy, prone-to-stupid-fouls big men like Nazr, Rasho, TMass?
So what's this asshole's point? Why is he thinking about, concentrating on Manu's defense? Try to find some way to bring Manu down? or just trying to fill some column inches?
This sounds like Rosen is playng "watch me grand-stand with some highly obscure, insignificant, arcane BS", hitching my own tiny star to Manu's current s om.
They are?The press is piling up on Manu, and the Spurs, as their star rises.
90%+ of the press I've seen on Manu is saying that he's become a superstar. I don't think that's piling up in a bad way.
Wasn't rosen a former ass. coach or coached with phil in the cba? I heard some guys on the radio yesterday after the phil rehire that rosen wrote some bad things about kobe since him and phil are good buddies.
That explains alot to me now.
Note to Detroit Pistons:
Manu is waaay overrated. He can't defend, either.
Pay no attention to him.
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