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I think it's time to pull the feeding tube across the pond. Europe is dead, they just don't know it yet...
BRUSSELS, Belgium - European Union leaders had billed Thursday's summit as a chance to renew vows of unity after French and Dutch voters soundly rejected a proposed cons ution for Europe. Instead, the session risks degenerating into an unsightly squabble over the EU's $120 billion annual budget.
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France refuses cuts in the generous handouts to its farmers; Italy says it will veto a deal that cuts aid to its poor south; Germany wants to reduce its contribution to the EU's accounts; Britain is clinging to the $6 billion rebate former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher won a decade ago by telling the continentals: "We want our money back!"
The bickering has exasperated the EU, which is desperate to show the drive for a united Europe can bounce back from its mauling by the French and Dutch.
On the eve of the summit, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso pleaded for unity.
"If we don't achieve this, the union will be involved in permanent crisis and paralysis," he told a news conference. "I appeal to all governments, each must contribute to find a solution."
Thursday's talks are scheduled to focus on the future of the cons ution, leaving Friday for the budget battle. EU nations are split over whether to press ahead with the charter's ratification.
France, Poland and Germany have said the other countries should go ahead with their own votes on the cons ution, which must be ratified by all EU members in order to take effect. However, the leaders of Denmark and Portugal are considering following British Prime Minister Tony Blair in freezing national referendum plans.
Ten nations have ratified the cons ution; Spain in a referendum and the others in parliamentary votes.
"Stopping the ratification process now would threaten further integration of the EU," Czech Prime Minister Jiri Paroubek told parliament in Prague.
The Czechs and Spanish are proposing a one-year extension of the 2006 deadline for the cons ution's ratification by all 25 members.
Barroso also called for "pause for reflection" on the cons ution — a do ent which supporters defend as essential for streamlining EU decision-making and detractors criticize as a blueprint for a bureaucratic super-state.
The cons ution debate has hardened governments' position in the fight over EU funding, as leaders heed voters' concerns that decisions from the EU's Brussels headquarters override their national interests.
Determined to fight, French President Jacques Chirac insists the agriculture subsides that eat up half the EU's budget — and favor French farmers — are untouchable.
Chastened Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende insists his compatriots — already the biggest contributors to the EU budget — will not have to pay more to Brussels. Blair threatens to veto any deal that tampers with Britain's rebate.
Luxembourg — which is chairing the talks — had worked out a compromise proposal overnight that capped contributions to the EU budget, cut farm subsidies and allowed Britain to keep a slightly reduced rebate for at least eight more years. But the Dutch, Spanish and Poles quickly rejected it.
In a speech to the German parliament before the summit's opening in Brussels, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder conceded that he had "little hope" of his country's EU partners reaching a compromise on the bloc's 2007-13 spending.
Schroeder singled out Britain and that country's lucrative budget rebate as the culprit.
"There is absolutely no real justification for this rebate, in view of the fact that Great Britain is No. 6 in terms of its population's per-capita income but is far behind in terms of payments per head," Schroeder said.
"Asking me, in the interests of unanimity, to make this rebate disappear in negotiations over agriculture or somewhere else, is a bit naive," he added.
The EU also must find the money to pay for much-needed new roads, power networks and phone lines in the eight former communist nations that joined the bloc last year — with a promise of help to bring their economies into line with their rich Western neighbors.
The problem is expected to get worse in 2007, when Romania and Bulgaria — who are even poorer than the other newcomers — are scheduled to join.
Barroso insisted Wednesday that the EU must stick to its commitments to bring in new members — despite voter worries that the bloc's expansion is going too far, too fast. Those concerns have been particularly strong over Turkey, which is due to begin membership negotiations in October — even though those talks are expected to last at least a decade
I think it's time to pull the feeding tube across the pond. Europe is dead, they just don't know it yet...
The French will never give up control of their country...at least not without force. (Don't insert a lame French army joke here.)
The French are independent, and the control freaks of Europe. They ain't giving up anything unless they're the ones driving the bus.
The French are losing control of their country as we speak.
Birthrates have dropped below that necessary to keep it populated with indigenous French and immigration from heavily Muslim Northern Africa has already started to supplant the home-grown French population.
This trend is pretty much the same all over "Old Europe."
I got news for you, cowboy - the only reason the US population won't decline is because of immigration, as well.
Yes, France has a LOT of immigrants from the middle east and Africa, mainly because France has a major influence in those areas. They also seem to be just as "French-like" in their nationalism, so I don't think that that is changing any in spite of the demographic change.
but when immigrants come to the u.s. they conform more to american standards than the immigrants moving into europe.
I don't know if I'd say that; the French have a pretty rigid social perception of what is and isn't acceptable in their country. Don't you remember all the hubbub about the muslim girls not being allowed to cover their heads in French schools?
Well, aside from our birthrate being twice that of Europo's -- and sufficient to repopulate the country, our immigrants are largely Latin American and, therefore, less likely to be Islamic Extremists bent on destroying any vestige of Western Culture.
You've almost gotta feel sorry for them. Socialism didn't work in the USSR, and it won't work for the EU either.
Figures lie and liars figure. The birthrate for white, non-hispanics & blacks is declining. "Hispanics" (pretty vague demographic) are keeping the US from following the trends occurring in developed western Europe.
TRO, have you ever been to France? They ain't exactly tearing down the Eiffel Tower and building a mosque in its place.
Well, all of the countries in the EU are socialist. But you stop being a socialist when you're the one with the money and it goes elsewhere. What happened to redistribution of wealth to help those more unfortunate?
They abandon their socialist beliefs like a crack baby in front of a fire station when THEIR money starts going to somebody else.
Unfortunately, there is a rather large contingent of American Liberals that want to model Europe's failed socialist experiments...
So, exactly what are the birthrates SWC?
Here, I'll save you the trouble. Europe's birthrate, at present, is 1.5 births per woman of childbearing age. America's is 2.1 (1.9 without Hispanics being factored in).
Much better than Europe's I'm afraid.
Last edited by The Ressurrected One; 06-16-2005 at 02:00 PM.
Well, I remember it was all over the headlines earlier this year to go along with all the talk about Social Security reform. Maybe I'll find it if I have some more time, the US census site sucks.
Here is something about the increase in hispanic population:
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...ce/001839.html
Yes, it's better, but declining while 2nd & 3rd world is rising.
BTW, it takes two to tango, so 1+1>1.9 :
If every 100 women have 190 children & 50% are girls (in actuality I think a little more than 50% are girls right now), then there will be 95 women to reproduce for the next generation.
So thanks for finding my facts for me, dude! I didn't want this to get into a pissing match, so nothing personal.
Last edited by SWC Bonfire; 06-16-2005 at 02:13 PM.
Hang on there, I think there's still to be an argument to be had.Yes, it's better, but declining while 2nd & 3rd world is rising.
BTW, it takes two to tango, so 1+1>1.9 :
If every 100 women have 190 children & 50% are girls (in actuality I think a little more than 50% are girls right now), then there will be 95 women to reproduce for the next generation.
So thanks for finding my facts for me, dude! I didn't want this to get into a pissing match, so nothing personal.
I removed the .2 Hispanic birthrate contribution not because I was ascribing them to immigrant/non-citizen births but, to demonstrate they contributed less than you were trying to lead everyone else to believe. In fact, America is culturally and ethnically diverse (unlike France) and just because you're Hispanic doesn't mean you're not American.
So, put us back up there at 2.1.
Oh, and one more thing...2nd and 3rd world birthrates are losing ground to their mortality rates...
So France is this autonomous country that has no diversity whatsoever, other than what has moved there in the last few years?
You're equating being "French" to being genetically descended from Charlemagne or something. France is a more of a melting pot than you think, and pride in being French is not limited to one demographic. You act like nationalism is limited to the American people. There's a reason the foriegn legion has survived all these years, a lot of people want to be "French". Just ask Adam Baldwin.
No, It's just not as diverse as America...and, it has a lower birthrate.So France is this autonomous country that has no diversity whatsoever, other than what has moved there in the last few years?
You're equating being "French" to being genetically descended from Charlemagne or something. France is a more of a melting pot than you think, and pride in being French is not limited to one demographic. You act like nationalism is limited to the American people. There's a reason the foriegn legion has survived all these years, a lot of people want to be "French". Just ask Adam Baldwin.
all of Europe is suffering from low birthrates... and the u.s. hispanic numbers are skewed... i am hispanic, but i'm 100% american. my great grandfather was the last person to be born in Mexico.
In Europe many of the minority numbers come from first generation Muslims.
...Unfortunately, there is a rather large contingent of American Liberals that want to model Europe's failed socialist experiments
I hope you wont get offended if I ask you to be more specific.....
How so? Because of the lowered Birth Rates?I think it's time to pull the feeding tube across the pond. Europe is dead, they just don't know it yet...
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