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Because athletic, talented players go much higher in the draft
I get sick and tired of other teams having young guys that can fly up and down the court and make play due to their athleticism. Sometimes you just want guys that can go make a play.
Why, in all of Pops tenure, have we only had one athletic guy that was given an opportunity in our system? I hated RJ's non-caring at ude as much as anybody, but how can you blame him when he was relegated to a spot up shooter in Pop's "system", when he's never been a spot up shooter. I don't blame a guy that has been flying around the court for his entire career and making plays, for checking out when all of a sudden he's told...you stand there and don't move unless I tell you too. I got fed up with his nonwillingness to drive to the bucket, but Pop gets in your ear if you screw up. Just ask Splitter.
But Bonner gets a free pass, why?...because he's always in the "right spot", even though he can't jump to block a shot or jump to grab a rebound to save his life.
Pop's system has a lot to due with it. He would rather have guys that don't have athleticism to go make a play, just so he can control them by making sure they are in the "right spot" on defense.
Manu is my second favorite Spur of all time because of his stones and will to win, but he has never been freakishly athletic. Still, he has been our most athletic player, and that's not saying much.
How can we go year after year without being able to sign some young, athletic guys?
Thoughts...
Because athletic, talented players go much higher in the draft
Right. We need to be in the lottery, but moneyball teams are always too good to get low picks in the draft and not good enough to win it all. That's the Spurs in essence. They won't be able to get to the lottery until we hit tank levels, which I doubt will ever come in the Tim Duncan era.
But something has to change! We aren't good enough to win it all because of our propensity to employ weak willed players, and we're too good for the lottery. Is this the time to break the big three? Not because they can't perform, but because the future of the Spurs will be bleak for years to come if the FO doesn't act now.
We need something new. I'd at least consider changing coaches. This just isn't working anymore. Every year there's a new wrinkle in the plan that stops us from being legit championship ready. At first we were too old, then too small, and now we're mental midgets. This is becoming embrassing. They are like the hot date that doesn't put out! We're constantly being teased, but forced to find out in front of the basketball world that we were still missing something. Tim put up 25/14 last night. Ginobili put up 34 in game five! TP and Jax, balled last night but that still wasn't good enough.
How about a rebuild?? I'm actually serious! The Spurs as a franchise will still exists after Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker retires. Is it time to completely plan for the future? I don't want to be the Nets, Raptors, or Bobcats. Lets get the pain over with!!!
In 15 yrs of Pop running the Spurs, we have not been able to find a young athletic player. 15 years!!!! At some point, you accidentally come across someone. Not every athletic player on every other team was drafted high.
We have been in need of an athletic serge ibaka type for the longest.
George Hill was extremely athletic. Manu in his prime...a good athlete. Tony...not a great athlete, but speedy as . Kawai...good athlete, more smooth than explosive. They've had decent success getting athletes where available, but they've been at a major disadvantage because of where they draft and how little money they have to spend.
Notice, the "big" is missing from that list above. They just don't fall that far in the draft, or they command too much money in the open market.
EDIT: We did draft Ian Mahinmi and he teased with talent, but he ultimately couldn't put it together. So there have been attempts to get athletic for sure.
Not disagreeing, but these are all below the rim guys. I'm talking about guys that can go get rebounds in traffic, guys that can drive into traffic and throw it down over big guys, guys that can come off of weakside and block someone shot.
Don't misunderstand me, I understand basketball is not all about dunks and big blocks. I'm more of a fundamental guy anyway. But it is just to glaring when every other team in the NBA has guys like these on their roster, and the Spurs can't find room for one.
Maybe this goes back to my point about the system, and those guys don't want to come here like the it's a plague. Maybe that's why we can never sign those guys. But there is a reason we have the "boring" stigma that we haven't been able to shake all these years.
Richard Jefferson says "HI".
The answers present themselves when you ask the question. We don't have fire. No guy with the skills to do those things wants to be told not to do them. It's telling when guys go for a layup when you know they could stuff it (Splitter)! The team as a whole is timid. I think it's a mindset from all the "Spurs have class!" garbage! You can have fire like Manu and still be classy. Imagine Demarcus Cousins in a Spurs uniform standing straight up with his hands in the air! No one goes for the block on the team in a ferious way.
So does my original post to start the thread. I dedicated an entire paragraph to Jefferson.
Those guys get drafted way before the Spurs pick, and then get max contracts when they're free agents. Every team in the league wants those kind of guys, but the bad teams and the teams with cap space are the only ones that can get them.
Sorry, but I disagree. The draft thing is a fair enough point, but we are talking about fifteen years of rosters here.
Your question is moot since the Spurs have shown they can get athletic players such as Jefferson.
Maybe you should have led your thread "Why cant athletic players flourish here?"
It's availability, or lack thereof. Uber-athletes just plain don't fall into your lap in the late-first round. And the Spurs have had limited cap flexibility for years...sacrificing the only bit they had with the RJ acquisition.
One guy.....one guy. I'd say the le still stands correct as is.
Even if its 2-4 guys, it still proves my point.
If I say Splitter can't hit free throws, that doesn't mean he never hits a free throw. But the context of the quote should be understood. You didn't read the original post and now you're playing semantics to save face.
Had the Barry-for-Smith deal gone through a few years back, we'd have had a really athletic head case to work with. Not sure how that would have turned out, obviously.
Here's the thing: dumb guys don't work here on this team. Guys without defined skills don't work here. Guys who don't work hard on their game don't work here. We've tried them, and they just plain don't work.
Let's say we dumped a bunch of people to clear enough cap to go after Javale McGee. He'd be a disaster. That, or we'd have to throw away the whole system and start over to be able to fit a guy like that on our team.
Given that, that rules out most athletic players. some of them just aren't bright enough to understand our system. Some of them don't work hard enough. Some of them just don't have enough in the way of skills to go with their athleticism. It's hard enough to find guys who meet all those criteria without also requiring that they be athletic too.
Q: Do you know what you call a really athletic guy who has a high BBIQ, a great work ethic, and a really strong skill base?
A: A franchise player.
We've been lucky enough to get franchise players both times we've had the first pick of the draft. That in itself is remarkable if you look at the track record most teams have had. But it's not in any way surprising that we haven't gotten additional franchise players drafting in the late 20s and picking up spare parts through cap exceptions.
+1
Athletic bigs are the hardest to come by. They command far too much money, and most of them will be locked up by long term contracts.
That said, Greg Oden is still available, and he's not saddled with negative character issues. But just how much is the team willing to risk in order to sign someone whose minutes have to be monitored so that his knees will hold up over a few seasons?
Spurs are boring because Pop likes the unathletic types that just look to stand on the perimeter and shoot. That is the style Pop likes to play.
Last edited by rascal; 06-07-2012 at 06:33 PM.
Yes 15 years. But please think about it from a different angle. They have been really good for 15 years to not be in lottery. 15 years!!!
I agree with the takes above. Im not asking for franchise players, just guys who can make plays if things go wrong instead of just being on the team because he can stand in the right spot.
The spurs havent won since 07. Pops system has not worked for the past 5 seasons. It took all this time to finally yank Bonner in a playoff series. And there are no guarantees he will be off the team next year.
So isnt it time to start looking at a system that hasnt won in half a decade by constanly running players out there because they are "smart".
Also, you have to adjust your teams based on what your opponents are beating you at. The thunder are'nt going anywhere.
When they have cap space they end up with Rasho.
Thank you! This is what im talking about.
The NBA is evolving. The players are not the same as 20 years ago. Now even the centers can play like guards. Durant and ibaka are perfect examples. Durant is like an athletic Dirk. This is like the NBA 2.0 now. We just need to adapt to the current style of play. It's much faster the players are too talented.
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