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Bubby Valentine had Price down 4-1 going into the 9th.
Elected to go with Andrew Bailey for the save.
ERA 6.75
In exchange for getting one out, gave up 4 singles and a walk. 7-4 Tampa Bay.
Bubbys stellar year continues.
Price off the hook.
Regardless of how moron Baseball Writers Association of America votes, who you got?
It's one of these three.
Frontrunners
Weaver 18-4 2.78 WHIP 1.00
Price 18-5 2.54 WHIP 1.11
Chris Sale running a solid 3rd at 17-6.
They should all get 2 or 3 more starts, i say that will decide.
*MultiRanger while you enjoyed Fathead Skosha leaving Weaver in so you could rock him for 8 runs in 3 innings in May, here is what has happened since:
W 6-1 July 7ip 1 earned
W 6-2 July 6.1ip 2 earned
W 11-3 Sept 7ip 3 earned
Bubby Valentine had Price down 4-1 going into the 9th.
Elected to go with Andrew Bailey for the save.
ERA 6.75
In exchange for getting one out, gave up 4 singles and a walk. 7-4 Tampa Bay.
Bubbys stellar year continues.
Price off the hook.
Weaver has the best run support in the majors -- 6 runs per start.
With that kind of support, he'd better be 18-4.
I'm not throwing my hat in for Verlander or anything, but to be 15-8 with the terrible run support that he gets (only one AL pitcher outside of Seattle (Jeremy ickson) gets less support per start and Verlander gets almost 2.5 fewer runs per start than Weaver does), is pretty remarkable. The peripherals for Verlander are basically identical to Weaver's -- 2.74 ERA, 1.06 WHIP. The difference is 4 decisions, with one guy getting substantially more offensive support than the other.
I think if you're going to have the conversation, he has to be in it.
^^ somewhat of a reversal from last year.
Except that last year Weaver had an unbelievable # of games allowing only 0, 1, or 2 runs. Combined with an unbelievable lack of run support. One fat game by a pitchers offense can also skew the ave if going by aves only.
Verlander this year has not matched Weaver of last year imo.
Nonetheless a very good year for Verlander.
I still say Valentine moronic strategy removed and Price falls to 18-6 and Weaver clearly becomes the frontrunner. Oh well.
Lots of possibilities in these last 2 or 3 starts.
19-6 on 6.1 innings pitched with only 1 earned.
A step fwd by Weaver but Price still a solid 2nd and i suppose Sales could sneak up. Verlander with a few more starts too.
Bottom line we gotta see the final starts.
I think Price gets the easiest path with yet another start tommorow Bubby Valentine, who i thnk is clearly in give up mode and is effecting his team. Players of which are also in give up mode.
I don't really see anyone other than Fabbs believing that Weaver is the front runner for AL Cy Young. Most of the pundits rank him around 4th or 5th. Since we've moved beyond sheer wins, ERA, and Ks as the barometer of pitching greatness, the sabermetric numbers seem to really favor Price, Verlander, Hernandez, and Sale over Weaver's high win total.
That's a terrible argument, since Verlander was pretty stellar in 2011 by both traditional measures and saber metric measures, particularly compared to the rest of the AL field.
If you wanted to get me, you'd try to hang some argument about discounting Felix's win in 2010 or Grienke's in 2009.
I may or may not rely on sabermetrics but i posted the # of games Weaver allowed 0 or only 1 or two runs last season and it was off the hook. Right there with Verlander who most certainly did get better run support last year compared to Weaver.
What exact stats do you claim Weaver is lacking in this season compared to the others?
I don't claim any of that. I'm telling you that the pundits -- for whatever reason -- find your guy's 19 wins to be underwhelming.
I told you before that I'm not throwing in for anyone.
Your posts made me wonder if Weaver was an overwhelming favorite, and it turns out that he isn't.
Which ones exactly?
WAR, for one. Verlander gives his team 7.0 wins above replacement, which is first among AL pitchers. Sale is at 6.0 (2nd); Price is at 5.7 (4th); Hernandez is at 4.6 (6th). Weaver is at 3.3 (12th).
ERA+ for another. Sale is at 154 (1st among AL pitchers) and Verlander is at 153 (2nd). Price sits 3rd at 147. Weaver is 5th in that category at 135, with Felix right behind him at 131.
Again, though, I'm not here to make an argument for or against anyone.
WAR?
"Wins Above Replacement, commonly known as WAR, is a non-standardized sabermetric baseball statistic that is used to show how many more wins a player would give a team as opposed to a "replacement level", or minor league/bench player at that position.
There is no clearly established formula for WAR."
ok
While i guess WAR does serve some useful purpose it hardly convinces.
Again it has it place but...ERA+ for another. Sale is at 154 (1st among AL pitchers) and Verlander is at 153 (2nd). Price sits 3rd at 147. Weaver is 5th in that category at 135, with Felix right behind him at 131.
"Moving beyond ERA+"
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...ng-beyond-era/
I continue to say these last 2-3 starts for each pitcher will end up deciding it.Again, though, I'm not here to make an argument for or against anyone.
I don't know what i posted that could have you extracting "overwhelming favorite."Weaver is one bad game/one Skosha screwup from dropping out of contention.
Could you please give a working example of a WAR in pitching?
I have no idea what you mean. WAR for pitchers is similar to WAR for hitters. As I understand it, the metric measures the value of the player by assessing how many wins better he is than an average replacement at the position. In other words, a player with a WAR of 0 is an average player. A player with a WAR of 7.0 is valued to be worth 7 more wins to his team than a player with a 0 WAR would be.
If you have questions about it, there are plenty of online resources to find out what people think about WAR as a measure of player value. But, by way of example, Jerry Crasnick on ESPN has described WAR as "the most widely accepted all-purpose metric," so I'm not making this stuff up. It's fine if you think it's worthless. My lone point is that awards voters these days are looking at things like WAR in deciding how to vote and that traditional stats like Wins, ERA, and strikeouts aren't nearly as reliable as they used to be in predicting who will win these awards.
I don't know if Jerry Crasnick is in on this rating system, but it's also BSPN as its souce.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung
Weaver rated at #2 in the Cy Young prediction.
its probably gonna be Price.
Man, Fabbs is going to suffer an emotional breakdown if Weaver doesn't win it.
No idea that Gio Gonzalez was doing that well
2nd start in a row vs the Boston Bubbys.
Offense: Red Sox run themselves out of two potential big innings. In the 3rd inning 1b and 2b with only one out. Ciriaco throw out trying to steal 3b.
Defensively instead of out #3 and no runs scored, error by left fielder Nava and two runs.
Oh well, Weaver got a few starts against Boston Bubbys too i think.
Sales keeps pace.
Weaves goes 2-0 and does well his next two starts i don't care what Price does short of a no hitter.
In the 45 year history of the AL CY award, only one starting pitcher has won it with throwing fewer than 200 innings. And that one time was David Cone in 1994 in the 113 game strike shortened season. There have been a few relievers who have won it with under 200 innings, but no other starting pitcher other than Cone. Weaver is at 180.2 innings with two starts left. He won't hit 200 innings this season. Weaver's numbers are good enough to put him in the conversation, but the two things that will hurt him most are the fewer number of innings pitched and his low strike out count compared to the other candidates. Verlander has 50 more innings pitched with only 4 more starts. Price, Verlander, and Felix all have 200+ strike outs to Weaver's 136. The award is David Price's to lose.
Wow that is noteworthy.
Sounds like Weaver would have to bust off a couple shutouts to convince MultiSportsWriterVoter that 200 innings is not a *requirement*.
How bizarre would it be for the Angels to end up with the MVP (as well as the Rookie of the Year) and the Cy Young winner and miss the playoffs?
Aside from situations where the MVP and Cy Young winner were one in the same (Verlander last year,
Eckersley in 1992, Clemens in 1986) there aren't that many teams that have had both the MVP and the Cy Young winner:
2006 MIN (Morneau & Santana)
2005 STL (Pujols & Carpenter)
2002 OAK (Tejada & Zito)
1993 CWS (Thomas & McDowell)
1991 ATL (Pendleton & Glavine)
1990 OAK (Henderson & Welch)
1990 PIT (Bonds & Drabek)
1988 LAD (Gibson & Hershiser)
1984 CUBS (Sandberg & Sutcliffe)
1982 MIL (Young & Vuckovich)
1980 PHI (Schmidt & Carlton)
1974 LAD (Garvey & Marshall)
1967 BOS (Yastrzemski & Lonborg)
Of those the 80 Phillies and the 88 Dodgers won the World Series; the 67 Red Sox, the 74 Dodgers, the 82 Brewers, the 90 A's, and the 91 Braves lost in the World Series; the 84 Cubs, the 90 Pirates, the 93 White Sox, and the 05 Cardinals each lost in the League Championship Series; and the 02 A's and the 06 Twins were eliminated in the Divisional Series.
In other words, every team that has pulled off the double since the Cy Youngs were split between the leagues in 1967 has at least qualified for the playoffs.
20-4 after last nights 9-4 win, Weavers 4th straight vs MultiRanger.
7 innings pitched
2 earned
5 hitter
Weaver wins his final start next week and it should be his.
Having *only* 195 innings instead of 200 would be a bogus reason to hold it back. And i realize Biebs you were simply posting the stat facts.
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