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they coordinated a successful (for them) attack in the heart of the capital of the united states' major ally. how is that ing up?
It's looking more and more like they just galvanized moderate Arabs AGAINST them.
Way to go Osama, pretty soon they're going to hand over your head on a platter.
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the..._radical_.html
From the Al-Siyasah newspaper (received June 6):
"The Imam of al-Jabiriyah preached against the Americans and the Worshippers shouted 'O' Allah, make America stronger!"
"The Al-Siyasah newspaper has received news that several mosques in Kuwait have begun to exhibit a new phenomenon manifested in the rejection by worshippers of extremist prayers expressed by some of the Imams during their Khutbah [friday prayer].
These prayers included invitations to fight the Americans and to become more hostile towards them. An example of this [phenomenon] was when Nabil al-Awadi, who is an Imam at one of the mosques in the southern region of Al-Surrah, began preaching against the Americans in his last Friday Khutbah.
As a result, the people at prayer cut off his speech and demanded that he stop talking. Additionally, the worshippers at the mosque of Aisha Shabib in the Al-Jabiriyah neighborhood shouted, 'O' Allah, make Islam and America stronger' in response to what the Imam of that mosque had said during friday prayer about America and the current war [in Iraq]."
I bet you won't be hearing that on CNN anytime soon.
they coordinated a successful (for them) attack in the heart of the capital of the united states' major ally. how is that ing up?
First off, this is great.
Second, in a tangent... am I the only one skeptical that al Queda was actually behind the London bombing? I suspect that it was some other terrorist group, but that al Queda convinently took credit and it is all too easy to assign any terror related activities to AQ.
You know, I would have to say that moderate muslims were already against Al Queda.
No, I don't think AQ was taking false credit for the attack. The nature of their network makes cordination of this sort all too easy.
AQ isn't doing anything they're doing (9/11, Iraq, London) to just kill people. They're trying to drive a wedge between the West and the Muslim world, and start a global war of Muslims vs. non-Muslims.they coordinated a successful (for them) attack in the heart of the capital of the united states' major ally. how is that ing up?
They are trying to provoke responses from the West that galvanize the Muslim world into "joining them" in a winner take all battle for the world.
Yeah, they killed some people, which isn't to be margianalized. But they also turned off a lot of Muslims with that attack last week. Think of it as failing at the grass roots campaign that they feel is ultimately a key cog in their defeat of the West.
Basically OBL and crew have hijacked their religion and it's nice to see Muslims actually saying enough's enough.
Manny, I agree with you that some moderate Muslims were against them. But you weren't seeing them speak up against Osama and Co.
Now you are.
so a lot of muslims weren't turned off by 9-11, but they were by what went down last week?
um...ok.
Why aren't you skeptical towards oil companies when they raise prices for bull reasons?
Forget it vk. The trend of AQ is to continuously go after civilians in the West, and that is increasingly turning off Muslims to their cause.
It's a ulative effect.
interesting spin.
Because 1) I understand the nature of the supply/demand dynamic and 2) I work for an oil company, dip .
Has Osama been spotted lately? Do any of you think he's still alive?
who says i been jumpin' to conclusions about al quedo perpetrating the london bombings just because tony blair said it was islamic extremists?
No. Yes.
Read an interesting article on the evolution of aQ. Most of the old guard are dead. The new ones that are taking their places were never trained in the Middle East, and they're second generation Europeans, and therefore EU citizens, and can move freely through the EU. They are directed by no one. They work in very small groups and plan their own ops.
I know you work for an oil company dip ! Thats why I asked you the question. Just because some ships couldn't get through the Gulf to unload their precious cargo, it's time to raise prices? All of this crap is man made and you know it. I'm not talking about the level price of oil. I'm talking about this last week. I don't care if you do work for an oil company. That does not make you an expert. You have a chip on your shoulder about a mile wide and I'm not inpressed! We can continue this or you can come down to Earth and be civil. The choice is yours.
scott's probably got a company stock purchase plan, hence the defensiveness
Either that or one of an ego!scott's probably got a company stock purchase plan, hence the defensiveness
Moderate Muslims have been against terrorism for years.
Scott can defend his stances quite well and is one of the more intelligent posters in this forum.
They don't need to grow spine. just to move out of the way of people with it..
Well, yes. And oil companies don't "set" prices... Crude oil, gasoline, and distillate are all traded on open exchanges. Supply and demand dictates prices, not dumb conspiracy theories.
Hurricanes that cause power outages and force refineries to shut down 190 mbpd of refining capacity when margins are high is man made "crap"? Is it Bush's hurricane machine, or is it the terrorists with giant fans off the coast of Africa?All of this crap is man made and you know it. I'm not talking about the level price of oil. I'm talking about this last week.
It makes me someone who knows a of a lot more on the subject than you.I don't care if you do work for an oil company. That does not make you an expert.
Come down to Earth and be civil? So we can talk about all kinds of other non-sequitous topics like why I'm not skeptical about the sky being blue?You have a chip on your shoulder about a mile wide and I'm not inpressed! We can continue this or you can come down to Earth and be civil. The choice is yours.
I posted that I'm skeptical that aQ is the group responsible for the latest attack for the simple fact that there are lots of other terrorists groups out there, and I fear that our willingness to jump to the conclusion that aQ is responsible anytime something happens will be a mistake. Or maybe we should spend all of our attention on aQ while some other terrorist groups plots to kill us. Thankfully not even Dubya is that stupid.
Got any other brilliant observations? I'm also skeptical of the existence of unicorns - want to debate that next?
I would believe this better if it wasn't third-hand from a blog that misspelled Alseyassah.
Find me an actual english version of the story that isn't from a blog and I will believe it. All I could find was this:
http://www.alseyassah.com/alseyassah/
My arabic is waaay to rusty to read it, though.
I did also find an interesting bit here:
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabt...wait/Index.asp
...but could find no mention of any "pro-american protests". Closest thing I could find was something that most conservative christian doo-dahs wouldn't admit about Islam:
'Terrorists ignorant of Islamic teachings'
KUWAIT CITY: Persons who claim to have in-depth knowledge of Islam but make incorrect statements about the religion are "uneducated people" who will face tough punishment from Allah, says Dean of Islamic Studies at Kuwait University (KU) Dr Mohammed Al-Tabtabaei. Al-Tabtabaei, who is the first Kuwaiti to receive a doctorate in his field, said acts of terrorism in the country are acts of people who do not understand the real teachings of Islam, adding Islam forbids terrorism and extremism. Pointing out the faculty of Islamic Studies in KU has a strategy to protect youth from extremist ideologies Al-Tabtabaei said rumors regarding increase in the number of crimes are untrue. The few crimes committed in Kuwait are by people with a weak religious foundation and lack of understanding of Islam, he added. Freedom and democracy should go hand-in-hand with religious understanding to enable the government do away with these crimes at the earliest long before they go out of control, said Al-Tabtabaei in conclusion.
By Fauziya Al-Ibrahim; Special to the Arab Times
Who needs to jump to conclusions when they claimed responsibility?I posted that I'm skeptical that aQ is the group responsible for the latest attack for the simple fact that there are lots of other terrorists groups out there, and I fear that our willingness to jump to the conclusion that aQ is responsible anytime something happens will be a mistake.
There are an amazing amount of things happening in this world that do not get the proper coverage because it just isn't what generates ratings.
Example: Moderate muslims speaking out.
Whats going to look better on your newscast? The carbomb in Iraq, or the moderate Muslim in France who hates Al Queda?
Before everyone starts patting themselves on the back that the moderates are finally speaking up, there is still a LONG,LONG way to go for islam to be compatible with western society. If you think this will slow down the Islamakazis, Case and point:
http://csmonitor.com/2005/0711/p01s04-woeu.html
A defiant Islam rises among young Britons
Thursday's attacks turn attention to a group alienated from British society.
By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
LONDON – Thursday's coordinated terrorist attacks that killed at least 49 people have underscored competing forces within Britain's Muslim community: a minority that advocates violence against Western targets, and those who want to coexist peacefully with Britain's multifaith, multiethnic society.
Since the bombings, the media and Muslims have been at pains to explain that most of the country's 2 million Muslims are peaceful. "The Muslim community in Britain has a long history and is enormously diverse," says Anas al-Tikriti, a member of the Muslim Association of Britain.
But the attacks are turning attention to the increasing numbers of young British Muslims who are rejecting their parents' traditional culture in favor of a radical and expansionist Islam. This strikingly Western version of Islam combines an independence of thought with a contempt for established traditional scholarship and a theme of teenage rebellion.
"Getting involved in radical Islam is an emotional thing rather than a rational decision," says Abdul-Rahman al-Helbawi, a Muslim prayer leader. "And it's not a matter of intelligence or education - a lot of these radicals in Britain are very well-educated."
In Dalston market in north-east London on Thursday, "Abdullah," a Muslim watch-mender and evangelist, was in a pugnacious mood.
"We don't need to fight. We are taking over!" he said. "We are here to bring civilization to the West. England does not belong to the English people, it belongs to God."
Two days later in a prosperous West London cafe, Mr. Helbawi pondered the attacks. "It's not a surprise but I am still shocked," he said. "How can they do this? London is a city for all the world. This is not Islam."
Hours after the bombings, Helbawi logged onto an Internet chat room run by British Muslim extremists. "They were all congratulating each other on the attacks," he said. "It was crazy. They were talking about how they had won a great victory over the infidels, as if they had just come back from a battle."
Although so far, there is no evidence that British Muslims were involved in the bombs, there is little doubt that many British Muslims feel that Britain "deserved" the attacks for supporting the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Because Muslims explain the conflicts in Iraq, Kashmir, and Israel through Islam, every Muslim feels involved," said Helbawi. "People watch television and see Palestinian women being hit and pushed around by Israeli soldiers, and get angry and feel that they have to do something."
But beyond anger, a sense of alienation often drives radical Islam. Many second- and third-generation immigrants find themselves cut off not only from their parents' cultures but also from a British one that includes alcohol and looser sexual mores.
"If you don't drink, it really cuts you off from English society," says Ummul Choudhury, a London-based Middle East analyst for the Gulf Centre for Strategic Studies. "The view of the older generation is also that you do not integrate. If you do, you are told you are betraying your culture and religion."
The resulting isolation makes it easier for young Muslims to develop a contempt for British society.
"There is also a lot of racism toward white British people," says Ms. Choudhury. "It's not really something that people want to talk about, but there are definitely some things that Muslims say between themselves that they would never say in front of white people."
For frustrated and isolated young Muslims, radical Islam is not difficult to find. Girls in particular are often prevented from going out at night and can be easily drawn into online Muslim communities where they come into contact with other disillusioned Muslims from across Europe.
One leading analyst of the Islamic diaspora even compares the lure of extremist Islam to 1950s teens listening to Elvis in an attempt to shock their parents. "The son of a Pentecostal preacher in Brixton was recruited by the radical Muslims," says Nadhim Shehadi, acting head of the Middle East program at Chatham House.
"This young man initially tried to upset his parents by becoming a rapper," says Shehadi. "But when his parents stopped objecting, he became a jihadi instead."
The antiestablishment nature of this new Islam and its apparent status as an alternative to capitalism and secularism is also winning converts among native Britons.
"People come to Islam from all walks of life. It's not just middle-class people but also electricians, judges, and taxi drivers," says Sara Joseph, the editor of "Emel," a lifestyle magazine for Muslim women, who converted to Islam at age 17. "The main catalyst for conversion is often going out with a Muslim, although the primary factor is usually a search for spirituality."
While the estimated 1,000 British Christians, atheists, and members of other faiths who convert to Islam every year are often attracted by Islam's clearly defined teachings, this minor trend is overshadowed by Muslims' highbirth and immigration rates, which tomany Muslims promises increased political and social influence in the future.
Indeed, taking advantage of Britain's rapidly expanding and increasingly Muslim population are new parties that aim to promote ethnic and religious agendas. One is Respect, a left-wing party founded by former Labour MP George Galloway, that aims to unite Muslims and socialists around opposition to American foreign policy and globalization.
Linked to the desire for increased political power are attempts by some radical Muslims to begin a process of Islamicizing British cities.
Last month, Muslim groups in Glasgow pe ioned the City Council to ban an Italian restaurant from serving alcohol to diners seated at outside tables. Hospitals in Leicester considered banning Bibles from hospital wards to avoid offending Muslim patients. In Birmingham, a group called Muslims Against Advertising began a campaign of painting over billboards that they deemed offensive to Islam - targeting ads for Levi's jeans, perfume, and lingerie.
But these small campaigns are polarizing public opinion along ethnic and religious lines - and creating support for Britain's far-right groups, who present themselves as defenders of Britain's hard-won freedoms.
And then there are the people who talk out of both sides of their mouths.
http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=745
Terror in London (4) - United Arab Emirates Friday Sermon: Igniting Civil Strife is the Habit of Jews and Christians, not Muslims
Following are excerpts from a Friday sermon delivered in the United Arab Emirates, and aired on UAE TV on July 8, 2005. The preacher's name is not available.
Preacher: What happened in a certain country, which was mentioned in the media yesterday, is a clear act of aggression, which is totally devoid of any logic, and is entirely unjustified. Whoever carries out such an act is not a Muslim, nor is he a religious person. This is the kind of criminal act that serves only those who wish to destroy mankind, and to thwart civilization and progress. Igniting civil strife and using the tools of war and destruction is the habit of the de able Jews and Christians of the ancient nations, and the Koran has already deplored them for that.
I surf everywhere so saying moderate muslims have been speaking up is bunk. There are millions upon millions who believe Islam is it any everything else needs to be destroyed. If people believe this war will get less violent, your kidding yourselves. IF the mods do start combating their religious problems, violence will increase, not decrease. Any of you leftys ready for that scenario? I have been for years.
Right on cue.
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