I think Bush should just fire him(officially) so that Demos can stop crying so much... Then maybe they will actually try to be part of this government and stop acting like Al-Qaeda and being happy when goes wrong in Iraq..
You mean like when the republicans were crying over a blow job?
And happy when went wrong for Clinton?
And saying that democrats are happy when goes wrong in Iraq is a bunch of bull . When when you stop thinking that only republicans love our Country?
Get over that crap!!!!!
Actually, we were screaming about Clinton, a sitting President of the United States of America sworn to uphold the U.S. Cons ution, denying the cons utional right of due process to an American citizen by committing perjury, suborning perjury, and obstructing justice. I can't help that you're caught up on his sexual perversions.
Example please.
I think there are liberals that would like to see us fail in Iraq because of how it would tarnish the President. It's that simple. I wouldn't describe it a happiness.
How else do you explain the paradoxical statements from leading Liberals in Congress to the effect that "We must win in Iraq" while out of the other side of their mouths they cry "He's doing it all wrong, bring our boys home."
They need to pick a position and stick with it. If we "must" win, STFU about perceived past mistakes, "lies," and errant justification and just get behind the effort, rah, rah, rah the United States of America on to victory.
If we need to get out of Iraq, make that your message but, offer alternatives and explain how you would have handled the situation differently...they do neither.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after President Bush on his National Guard Service and lost the battle. Why? Because the argument had been waged, fought, and lost during four previous elections. There was never anything to it. Period. It was an attempt to sway the Presidential election by smearing his character.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after President Bush on his 19 words in the SOTUA and lost the battle. Why? Because the 19 words were true and the Left and media were hoping the cir stances would be too esoteric and complicated for the general public to be able to sort it out before the election. However, except for a few (Nbadan, et. al.), they were wrong.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after President Bush on his WMD justification and lost the battle. Why? Same reason as above in addition to it never having been the ONLY justification for invading Iraq and dethroning Saddam Hussein.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after Tom Delay as a reprisal for crafting a winning strategy in the re-districting of Texas and lost the battle. Why? Because he did nothing illegal...they just don't like him.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after Tom Delay on his travel SNAFUs and lost the battle. Why? Because, oops! It turns out there are more Democrats than Republicans -- Nancy Pelosi among them -- that suffered from the same forgetfulness at DeLay.
The Left, with a complicit media, went after Karl Rove on some perceived violation of the law and are losing the battle. Why? Because it will be discovered that not only did Rove never mention Plames name, none of the criteria of the relevant law was violated.
I think it is the LEFT that needs to "get over it," and let this President do his job.
The difference with Clinton is that he was guilty of something and needed to be impeached -- which he was. If only the Senate had had the gonads to toss his ass out on the street.
I'm sure lying about a blow job was a real matter of national security. Oh the horrah!!!!
The Rights spews as much crap as the left does and you are proof of it.
Example!?!?! , the repubs were foaming at the mouth when they heard of the infamous Oval office oral activity.
Come on TRO, surely you can't believe your own words. Keep it real man.
And what about our current president denying the cons utional right of due process to an American citizen by using the patriot act? Huh? WTF is up with that!?!?
I'm sure there ARE SOME liberals who feel that way but don't lump me in with them. I'm sure you are not a right-wing whacko, and there are plenty, so I don't like to use labels which is what SOME conservatives love to do.
Listen, I support our troops but doesn't that mean I or any American should just "STFU" and blindly follow Bush. That is not the American way.
One can support the war but still have issues with how it is being handled.
It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.
you're a lying peice of crap
it was all bc youre a neocon and would do anything to see a demo out of the oval office
if that had been bush you'd find a bunch of news articles and long winded posts to defend him (see above)
Last edited by Cant_Be_Faded; 07-14-2005 at 01:20 PM.
"see the problem is, liberals are just inferior people. they aren't as smart, and they always have ulterior motives. us conservatives on the other hand are truely looking out for the best interests of the country. its that simple. democrats want to tarnish the president cuz hes a republican. we never wanted to tarnish clinton."
TRO if you think anyone but the destino's believe that exerpt of your post you're a loon
so you really think he DOESNT deserve to be fired? can you for one second stop being a chickenhawk and pretend rove was a democrat supporting a democratic president and did the things he did. would you feel exactly the same way?
liar
Can you stop being partisan for a second, as well, and explain to me exactly what he did that deserves being fired?
According to him, his lawyer, and Cooper's e-mail, he was simply correcting the notion that Wilson was sent to Niger by Cheney. He had knowledge that it was Wilson's wife (whom he didn't name) at the CIA that had sent him and not Cheney.
Add to that that the whole conversation with Cooper was initiated by Cooper on another topic and that he raised the Wilson story in the middle of the conversation.
Also, who is Miller's source? And, if Rove signed a waiver over a year ago why is she in jail and why is Cooper just now claiming to have been released by his informant to speak?
All indicators point to a media contrived Rove bashing...
[/QUOTE]
well the process is still going on right now. plenty of republicans were dying to make entire news stories out of clintons fiasco long before he committed perjury.
This whole rove story is way too complicated but basically I think he is lying and did leak the names. Eventually he will tell the truth and admit this.
If he DOES admit this, will you still think he's done nothing wrong and shouldn't be fired?
Wouldn't Cooper have said he leaked Plame's name?
So, you'd fire him just based on your gut feeling...always a good call.
Whose the liar?
1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:
Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)
Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson - I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)
CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)
2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:
“[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
CIA Director George Tenet: “Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)
3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant
Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium “Allegations.” “I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)
Officials Said Evidence In Wilson’s Niger Report Was “Thin” And His “Homework Was Shoddy.” (Michael Duffy, “Leaking With A Vengeance,” Time, 10/13/03)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador’s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts’ Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
“For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilson’s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. “Because [Wilson’s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release 7/11/03)
The Butler Report Claimed That The President’s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, “Was Well-Founded.” “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quan ies of uranium from Africa.’ was well-founded.” (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, “Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,” 7/14/04)
4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:
Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)
But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Do entation Indicating Wilson’s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. “Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and do ents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:
Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife’s Suggestion. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?” Joe Wilson: “The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it’s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton’s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)
In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. “The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA’s behalf … The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region …” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign
Joe Wilson: “Well, I Don’t Know. Obviously, There’s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It’s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee’s Been Involved In This In A Big Way …” CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “But They Weren’t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.” Wilson: “No, They Weren’t.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)
Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson’s Report “Lent More Credibility” For Most Analysts “To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.” “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq”:
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)
Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)
Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
Sen. John Warner (R-VA)
(Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Do ents:
In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post “The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Do ents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ‘The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.’” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
However, “The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report … Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ‘Misspoken’ To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Do ents Were ‘Forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:
NBC’s Katie Couric: “What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: “Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, … That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 5/3/04)
Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In “A Little Literary Flair” When Talking To Reporters. “[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ‘a little literary flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
Wilson’s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife’s CIA Iden y Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:
“On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ‘Wilson’s Wife Is Fair Game.’ Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ‘Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.’” (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, “Don’t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,” New York Post, 5/4/04)
“For Example, When Asked How He ‘Knew’ That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ‘A Little Literary Flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair,’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
The Boston Globe: “In Essence, Much Of Wilson’s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.” (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, “‘Truth’ Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,” The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)
Newsweek’s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: “[W]ilson’s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ‘Rumint,’ Or Rumor Intelligence.” (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, “Indecent Exposure,” The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:
“The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Do ents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
However, “The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details …” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan “Centrist”:
Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC’s Jamie Gangel: “You are a Democrat?” Joe Wilson: “I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 7/14/05)
“[Wilson] Insist[s] He Remained A Centrist At Heart.” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)
Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)
Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)
Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, “Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,” The Associated Press, 10/23/03)
“[Wilson] Admits ‘It Will Be A Cold Day In Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.’” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)
Yet somehow your "gut feeling" that Iraq's stockpiles of WMDs are still lying around(even when all evidence points to the contrary) is more authentic?So, you'd fire him just based on your gut feeling...always a good call.
sorry we dont all know exactly 100% of all truths ressurected one, sorry we cant all personally inspect guatanomo bay and say with 100% certainty that nothing immoral is going on there, sorry we aren't so 100% sure of all of our beliefs like you are that we cant put a "i dont heart rove" sticker in our signatures
^RACKYet somehow your "gut feeling" that Iraq's stockpiles of WMDs are still lying around(even when all evidence points to the contrary) is more authentic?
see how easy it is to say something compelling without constantly setting the bar for longest post of the year
Not only do you not have all the truths...you don't have any of the truths.
yeah only ressurected ones and chickenhawk loving bush worshippers are en led to the truths, so when they believe something they know without a doubt they are right because they're genetically, morally, and just flat out superior people than people who are or lean towards liberalism
He should not be fired, he broke no law. Firing him would undermine the process of alluding to things, and choosing your words carefully. Politicians will have to go back to flat out lying, putting us back 3 years.
You Can't Handle The Truth!!!!
I don't see anybody shuttin' up.
Aside from Bush and McClellan?I don't see anybody shuttin' up.
i don't know how a guy that revles undercover cia agents then add in a time of war, then add bush said he would not tolerate anyone in adminstarion
isn't getting punished
how can you fight a war on terrorism when you are leaking all your operatives and classified data
plus rove lied under oath the same crime clinton did
At least now we know who in this forum is on the RNC mailing list.
How about all liberals suck Rove's ?
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