To all Manu, and TP haters

[AusEM]

Manu haters:
In game 6 of these finals, the Spurs were up by 5 with 28 seconds to go. Could not keep the difference (Mia 3, Spurs 1-2 fts, Mia 3).
In game 7 of the 2006 western conference semifinals, Manu's foul on Nowitzki left the game tied with 21 seconds to go. If he hadn't fouled, we would be up by one (21 seconds to go). Yet, every hater knows for a fact that if not for that point, the Spurs would have beaten Dallas, then Phoenix, and finally Miami. Really? If that team was really that good, why didn't it beat Dallas earlier? Why was it only 3 points up in game 7 at home with 32 seconds to go?

TP haters:
sure, he is a ball-hog... goes into hero mode... ??? Do you know who Pop is? Do you really believe that a player can go against what Pop asks them to do again and again and still play for the Spurs? Do you think TD would respect such a player?
and he disappeared in the last two games... ??? have you seen the Spurs play? have you seen how much he runs on every play? Or do you only watch the part where a player shoots?

Yes, Manu is done. And TP will have the same problems next year unless we can get someone who can not only handle the ball, but create offence.
Still, these are two great players, two of the greatest player to wear a Spurs uniform (definitely top 10 imo).
So, how about we leave our xenophobia, racism, or just plain hate of latinos out of it and support our team, and all of its players?

[Kidd K]

Bro, you totally passed over how Ginobili was shooting the Spurs in the foot all night like with his terrible play. They were up 5 despite Manu (had he actually played even just average, they might've been winning in a blowout), and btw, Manu also bricked a free throw the possession before Kawhi did. I expected Kawhi to brick one since he's young. Manu's supposed to be the experienced vet who closes games and failed, putting all that pressure on the next guy who got fouled.

Manu also blew it in overtime too, with terrible turnovers and a boneheaded decision to rush the basket 1 on 3 rather than wait for a clean shot which cost us the game in OT. It wasn't a one play thing, he repeatedly screwed up and instead of making up for it, just continued to screw up even more.

Xenophobia and racism? The are you talking about? Manu SUCKED, that's why people are hating on him, not because of his race. Get the outta here with that lazy rationalization.

While you're WAY off with the Manu thing, I agree about Tony though. He needs someone besides Manu to carry the load handling the ball.

[TheGreatYacht]

This is what I have to say OP

[Sean Cagney]

Bro, you totally passed over how Ginobili was shooting the Spurs in the foot all night like with his terrible play. They were up 5 despite Manu (had he actually played even just average, they might've been winning in a blowout), and btw, Manu also bricked a free throw the possession before Kawhi did. I expected Kawhi to brick one since he's young. Manu's supposed to be the experienced vet who closes games and failed, putting all that pressure on the next guy who got fouled.

Manu also blew it in overtime too, with terrible turnovers and a boneheaded decision to rush the basket 1 on 3 rather than wait for a clean shot which cost us the game in OT. It wasn't a one play thing, he repeatedly screwed up and instead of making up for it, just continued to screw up even more.

Xenophobia and racism? The are you talking about? Manu SUCKED, that's why people are hating on him, not because of his race. Get the outta here with that lazy rationalization.

While you're WAY off with the Manu thing, I agree about Tony though. He needs someone besides Manu to carry the load handling the ball.

MANU NEVER used to miss those FT's! When we were in big games and he got fouled I would usually smile! I knew he would end the game. I don't know what happened this year but he started missing those FT's at the end of games, usually going 1/2.

[Kidd K]

MANU NEVER used to miss those FT's! When we were in big games and he got fouled I would usually smile! I knew he would end the game. I don't know what happened this year but he started missing those FT's at the end of games, usually going 1/2.

Yeah. . .Manu used to be extremely reliable. As recently as two years ago, there was no one else I wanted handling the ball than Manu at the end of a close game. Dude was clutch as .

This year. . .and especially the later and later it got into the postseason, I couldn't stand any time he touched the ball. Whenever he did something good, I was borderline shocked.

[AusEM]

Bro, you totally passed over how Ginobili was shooting the Spurs in the foot all night like with his terrible play. They were up 5 despite Manu (had he actually played even just average, they might've been winning in a blowout), and btw, Manu also bricked a free throw the possession before Kawhi did. I expected Kawhi to brick one since he's young. Manu's supposed to be the experienced vet who closes games and failed, putting all that pressure on the next guy who got fouled.

Manu also blew it in overtime too, with terrible turnovers and a boneheaded decision to rush the basket 1 on 3 rather than wait for a clean shot which cost us the game in OT. It wasn't a one play thing, he repeatedly screwed up and instead of making up for it, just continued to screw up even more.

Xenophobia and racism? The are you talking about? Manu SUCKED, that's why people are hating on him, not because of his race. Get the outta here with that lazy rationalization.

While you're WAY off with the Manu thing, I agree about Tony though. He needs someone besides Manu to carry the load handling the ball.

Where am I saying Manu was ok in game 6? I just pointed out that with 28 seconds to go we were up by 5, not too different from game 7 against Dallas,
and that a similar thing might have happened then. Yet lots of people say "Manu is the reason why we lost the championship in 06".
When so many people focus on the negative, they usually have a reason (even if they are not aware of it).
I did not even defend Manu, just said that it is not logical to put 06 on him and you come back saying "you are wrong, we lost this year because of him".

As I said in my original post, I think Manu is done. However, I do not believe we lost because of him. We lost because of Miami. If we want to pin this loss on something, it would be the fact that we had no choice but to play Manu even when he was playing really really bad.
It's ok. If you want to support people only while things are going good that's fine. I simply do not agree with the mentality "he is no longer saving us,
throw him under the bus". Especially since it is not Manu who decides who plays. It is not (completely) Pop who decides who is in the roster.
They tried their best, got us to a game 7 of the finals, and lost on the road to a team that had the best record in the nba, had won 27 consecutive games,
and has the best player in the game. Or you could say this loss has nothing to do with Miami, it is only because we played Ginobili...

[ElNono]

Manu sucked that game, but it was point blank the turnovers...

Every player that took freebies for the Spurs that night missed at least one, including Tony in OT. Fatigue does that to every player, tbh.

[BatManu20]

Manu Ginobili was the 57th overall pick in the draft and has done more for this franchise than anyone could have ever dreamed.


/thread

[kaji157]

OP most Manu and Tony haters are pople that don´t understand the toll it takes on a body to play this sport for more than 10 years, and excell at it.
Giving up your body to play and win for and organization that as great as it is has never, ever, do anything financially wise so they can had the same advantage other teams have (more good players).
These people i am referring about about tony and manu, players that could have gotten a lot of money elsewere (and probably more championships as well) and stayed on a team where any of both never won more than 14 millions a year, a lot by normal standars, but not a lot considering the impact both had at their primes.
These are guys that in my eyes only respong, along with Timmy, to eachother, they responsability with the fans is limited, and as of now they just own one and other.
If they are fine and want to continue together, i would continue to enjoy them.
Let the haters hate, and the fans cheer, enjoy and now, be sad, but ultimatelly gracious for the legacy these players (along with Timmy of course) have left behind to San Antonio.

[thOOdee]

the championships that were won were worth the pain of losing this one. still mad respect for manu

[Kidd K]

Where am I saying Manu was ok in game 6? I just pointed out that with 28 seconds to go we were up by 5, not too different from game 7 against Dallas,
and that a similar thing might have happened then. Yet lots of people say "Manu is the reason why we lost the championship in 06".
When so many people focus on the negative, they usually have a reason (even if they are not aware of it).
I did not even defend Manu, just said that it is not logical to put 06 on him and you come back saying "you are wrong, we lost this year because of him".

As I said in my original post, I think Manu is done. However, I do not believe we lost because of him. We lost because of Miami. If we want to pin this loss on something, it would be the fact that we had no choice but to play Manu even when he was playing really really bad.
It's ok. If you want to support people only while things are going good that's fine. I simply do not agree with the mentality "he is no longer saving us,
throw him under the bus". Especially since it is not Manu who decides who plays. It is not (completely) Pop who decides who is in the roster.
They tried their best, got us to a game 7 of the finals, and lost on the road to a team that had the best record in the nba, had won 27 consecutive games,
and has the best player in the game. Or you could say this loss has nothing to do with Miami, it is only because we played Ginobili...

I didn't say you said he was okay, I said you passed over how bad he played.

You're also strawmanning with the '06 thing, I don't fault Manu for us losing that series. Most don't, they just remember the final moment the most and think back on it with "damn if only this didn't happen". . .not, "man Manu sucked all series". I have seen people blaming Duncan for the whole thing for missing that layup too, when us losing clearly had nothing to do with Duncan.

I don't think Manu's done entirely, but he is done as a key piece and being part of our big 3. He should not be any more than a backup SG at this point and not being given as much responsbility. No more being the defacto backup PG either.

It isn't about "he isn't saving us so throw him under the bus", it's: "He can't even play average consistently anymore and shoots us in the foot repeatedly when it matters most, so throw him under the bus". I don't, and didn't expect him to be some kind of superman, just an average NBA player. . .but he played like a scrub.

[AusEM]

MANU NEVER used to miss those FT's! When we were in big games and he got fouled I would usually smile! I knew he would end the game. I don't know what happened this year but he started missing those FT's at the end of games, usually going 1/2.

To me this is mental. The saddest part is that Manu's game is not the kind of game that ages well. From what I saw in these finals, Manu was good mainly when he was attacking the basket and shooting, not passing. Of course, if the pick and roll with Tiago had worked better then we could be saying different now.
I do not feel angry when I see Manu now. I feel sad. And I believe that the front office should have been looking for a replacement much sooner. It is obviously not easy to find someone to play Manu's role. Even finding someone with similar talent wanting to be a 6th man would be almost impossible.

[UZER]

Despite everything Manu did wro g in game six and my cursing his name and begging pop to take him out, I said there is no one I would ever have on the line at the end of a game than Manu. And he couldn't even hit the free throw. Sad day for spurs fans.

[AusEM]

Despite everything Manu did wro g in game six and my cursing his name and begging pop to take him out, I said there is no one I would ever have on the line at the end of a game than Manu. And he couldn't even hit the free throw. Sad day for spurs fans.

And that is the main problem the Spurs have to fix. We need someone else to do that. Manu was great because the Spurs, even with TD at his peak, had become too predictable. Manu created match up nightmares. He cannot do that anymore. If we depend on him doing that, we lose.
However, since a player like that is very hard to find, we need alternatives. Don't know which, but I remember watching us play against the Bulls this year on Chicago without the big 3. It was one of the best games I saw us play. Sure, Chicago did not play their best, but I remember how good I felt watching that game, ball movement, team defence.
The problem is that in the playoffs we went away from that kind of ball movement. Maybe it cannot be achieved when opposing teams have time to plan for it. Or maybe the players change their mentality and do not trust each other as much when the games matter the most. But if we could get that kind of movement then we would not really need a "special" player.

[Sean Cagney]

To me this is mental. The saddest part is that Manu's game is not the kind of game that ages well. From what I saw in these finals, Manu was good mainly when he was attacking the basket and shooting, not passing. Of course, if the pick and roll with Tiago had worked better then we could be saying different now.
I do not feel angry when I see Manu now. I feel sad. And I believe that the front office should have been looking for a replacement much sooner. It is obviously not easy to find someone to play Manu's role. Even finding someone with similar talent wanting to be a 6th man would be almost impossible.

I am with you there.