Call me naive or question my understanding of basketball if you want.
Manu finds redemption.
This Spurs team is getting the job done this year.
#5 begins now.
Its gonna be a long journey and we are gonna be scared less all the way but when that final buzzer sounds we will celebrate our favorite championship as loyal Spurs fans.
...GO SPURS GO
Call me naive or question my understanding of basketball if you want.
Manu finds redemption.
This Spurs team is getting the job done this year.
#5 begins now.
Its gonna be a long journey and we are gonna be scared less all the way but when that final buzzer sounds we will celebrate our favorite championship as loyal Spurs fans.
...GO SPURS GO
The haters just want to sink because without Manu it is a guarantee that will happen.
Got league pass ordered and ready for the season to start. Go Spurs Go.
Going to be a great, motivated season!!Call me naive or question my understanding of basketball if you want.
Manu finds redemption.
This Spurs team is getting the job done this year.
#5 begins now.
Its gonna be a long journey and we are gonna be scared less all the way but when that final buzzer sounds we will celebrate our favorite championship as loyal Spurs fans.
...GO SPURS GO
Interesting season coming up....
We're still better off than most NBA franchises but I think we're finished for a while.
Manu's redemption is 03, 05, and 07 tbh
Well I'd be lying if I said I was as excited for this season as I was last year. We didn't make many improvements, especially in areas we needed to add talent at, and our two oldest players are pushing "too old" age pretty hard right now. I still have faith in Duncan, but. . .yeah.
Still, that doesn't mean we don't have a chance. It's just not as good this year. I still think we're probably going to be the best team out west this year again unless someone (or multiple people) gets hurt and it costs us seeding. But I give credit where it's due, a lot of western conference teams improved this year. Clippers look more dangerous, and the Rockets suddenly got a LOT better. Harden and Dwight now? Ridiculous.
It isn't the usual suspects anymore (Mavs and Lakers will suck again), but playoff Thunder with healthy Westbrook, Clippers, Rockets, and Grizzlies aren't all going to roll over. I don't expect the Grizzlies to take us, but those other three have the capability. Then again, we all may be walking around with huge hard ons again at the end of the season if the Spurs are rolling. We'll see.
Fixed it for you. I have no idea why you listed 03. He wasn't even in the top 5 for most important players that year. He was 6th or 7th.
Just curious: what 5 or 6 players would you list ahead of him in '03?
Manu was definitely a top 5 player on that '03 Spurs team. He finished every important game for a reason.
Duncan, Parker, Bowen, and Robinson were all more important to the Spurs' success that year. And arguably Jackson and even Malik Rose were at least as important as Manu. Manu was just a role player that year on a team full of mostly role players, not a super key piece yet.
And yes, Robinson and Bowen. If you don't value defense, then I don't really care about your opinion. Posting laugh emotes doesn't enhance your stance either.
Parker got benched in the Finals in favor of Claxton. He couldn't run the P'n'R or shoot.
David was a broken s of his former self. He played only 64 games, 26 minutes per game, and shot 47%. Willis was our best defensive center that year.
Malik was more important in 99 than in 03.
I'll give you Duncan, Bowen, and Jack. That still puts Manu in the top 5.
Take Jack out of there. He was decent, but he kept losing the ball. Granted he made up for it to a certain extent when he would make a 3 pointer, but you would cringe every time he had the ball in his hands, even more so than Manu did this last season. SJax kept getting his pocket picked or forgetting how to dribble on his way to the basket. I was glad to see him leave the Spurs after that season.
I would put DRob back in. Willis was good, but more of an "enforcer" than an anchor on defense. Wasn't that the year that Manu was nursing his severe ankle injury most of the season? Even so, he was amazing in those finals. Steve Kerr came up big in them too.
Last edited by xmas1997; 10-21-2013 at 07:36 AM.
DRob at a s of his former self was still better than rookie Ginobili, and tbh, off topic a little but imo he was better than a lot of centers in the league today. 26 minutes doesn't exactly say much either. Manu only played 24 minutes a game last year.
Like I said, I value defense. If a guy makes a few plays and hits a few shots, that's nice, but DRob was still contributing on both ends of the floor. I'm not sure why you brought up his 47% FG% either when it was better than Manu's 43.8%.
Speaking of FG%, let's look at their FG% in the playoffs that year too.
DRob: 54.2%
Ginobili: 38.6%
And Parker averaged 5 more PPG on better FG% and more assists than Manu too. But you list Manu above both those guys? I don't get your logic at all, but okay.
Duncan, Robinson and Parker were the only players more important than Ginobili that year. And even then Parker and Robinson didn't finish every important (I don't say every game period 'cause I can't recall every game of that post season) postseason game in '03 like Manu did, him and Duncan are the only ones that I remember finished every game. On the wing Bowen finished some games and Jackson finished others but Manu was the only constant.
I would argue Manu was more important than Bowen or Jack but he sure as wasn't better than DRob that year.
The players who were overall more important for the season are the people I am saying were more important. I'm not talking about a handful of games in which Manu happened to be part of the closing unit. The only player you can argue Manu being more important than solely based on that is Stephen Jackson since he played the same position. Everyone else played a different one and was vying against other players for spots. A very helpful role player (which is what Manu was that year too, let's not revise history here) such as Malik Rose could not have closed many games because Duncan and DRob clearly were going to unless there was some kind of health concern.
I'm not saying Manu sucked, but to act like he was even remotely close to "neccessary" to that le is a really overstating his impact to me. You have to assume we'd have an average replacement, not just be using a reserve scrub. I don't think his 38.5% shooting and 9 points a game in the playoffs would exactly be hard to replicate even with a less than average SG replacement.
That handful of games in which Manu happened to be part of the closing unit happened to be the postseason. You know, the part where championships are won. Besides it's not like he was a finisher only on that part, ever since the rodeo road trip I recall Manu being part of finishing line-up.
Bowen played the same position as Manu and Jackson: winger. That's why in many (most?) games Manu and Jackson finished games and Bruce stayed on the bench. If Bowen and Jackson were more important than Manu on the wing why was Manu the only one of those three to finish every important game?The only player you can argue Manu being more important than solely based on that is Stephen Jackson since he played the same position. Everyone else played a different one and was vying against other players for spots.
Who's saying otherwise? What I'm saying is that Manu most definitely was a top 5 player that year. You are the one revising history here by saying he wasn't.A very helpful role player (which is what Manu was that year too, let's not revise history here)
Robinson wasn't a lock to finish games that year. I remember Rose finishing a lot of games for him even when David wasn't injured.such as Malik Rose could not have closed many games because Duncan and DRob clearly were going to unless there was some kind of health concern.
I don't know if he was "necessary" or not, all I know is that he was definitely a top 5 player on the team that year.I'm not saying Manu sucked, but to act like he was even remotely close to "neccessary" to that le is a really overstating his impact to me. You have to assume we'd have an average replacement, not just be using a reserve scrub. I don't think his 38.5% shooting and 9 points a game in the playoffs would exactly be hard to replicate even with a less than average SG replacement.
Jax was huge in that playoff run in the 4th though, he also shined game 6th 4th Q when we needed it and hit three 3's in a row.
Malik was not more important in 99 then 03, he had some HUGE games vs Dallas those playoffs in 03 and his DUNK to turn the tide over Motumbo etc. in those Finals gave them a spark. Malik was at his best in 03.
I don't see what the point of the dumb
I also value the hard work someone like Malik Rose and Bruce Bowen do throughout a game to keep it close or give them a lead before other people "close the game out". You're basically giving the Kobefan argument right now. Acting like the final few minutes means more than the entire game, so all ups and all success prior to that barely means anything. I don't agree with any notion like that whatsoever.
Bowen played SF. They wanted offense and playmaking on the floor to close games. It's been that way for years. Manu didn't finish every important game, he just finished some. The reason he was on the floor was because his playmaking was the best out of the SGs and SFs on the team. They needed someone to keep dumping it to Duncan who was doing most of the work. Don't act like Manu was some kind of go to closing scorer or some . 9 PPG/38% in the playoffs.Bowen played the same position as Manu and Jackson: winger. That's why in many (most?) games Manu and Jackson finished games and Bruce stayed on the bench. If Bowen and Jackson were more important than Manu on the wing why was Manu the only one of those three to finish every important game?
Nope, go look at the other posts. People are saying DRob was a bum, that Parker was a scrub, that Bowen was barely useful, and you have Jackson defenders. The only person only I spoke about that no one else did was Malik Rose who imo was underrated in value and at least as important as Ginobili that year. The roles were different, but he was as impactful to me.Who's saying otherwise? What I'm saying is that Manu most definitely was a top 5 player that year. You are the one revising history here by saying he wasn't.
Like I said, Rose didn't close games unless there were health concerns. DROb had a bad back. Rose was an excellent role player and underrated piece that year. Just as important as Manu.Robinson wasn't a lock to finish games that year. I remember Rose finishing a lot of games for him even when David wasn't injured.
He was arguably only as neccessary or less so as Jackson or Rose. He was inarguably not nearly as neccessary as Duncan, Parker, and DRob. You can argue he was as neccessary as Bowen, but I'd disagree since I don't think it was that close. Let's not forget who frustrated Kobe into that terrible series to finally get us past the Lakers.I don't know if he was "necessary" or not, all I know is that he was definitely a top 5 player on the team that year.
With so many question marks, the word "definitely" doesn't apply. I think you're both embellishing Manu's usefulness and lowballing how useful everyone but Duncan was. You've naysayed everyone besides him (and Manu) so far. And obviously you can't naysay Duncan, otherwise I'd have no doubt you'd have been doing that too just to prop up Manu some more.
I don't take anything away from Ginobili from 2004-2011 besides being injury plagued. But 2003? 2013? Just stop. He wasn't that good.
Manu was a mere rookie and pedestrian role player in 03. Jeez can't believe ppl have the audacity to rewrite history this way. Yes he was exciting new prospect and his white skin made him a crowd favorite from the get go. I was one of his most ardent fans. But to say he was top 5 most important player in that 03 run is plain lunacy, please commit yourselves manu s
For a while? Ever since the rodeo trip ´till the championship he was a regular closer.How is that only "for a while"?I don't see what the point of the dumb
What Kobefan argument? I'm not saying Manu is a God for making 1 shot out of 200 in the clutch here. I'm just saying that he was a regular closer on that team, that means he played well enough and gained Pop trust to be 1 of the 5 guys that regularly closed games. That usually means you're among the best 5 players of a team, tbh.I also value the hard work someone like Malik Rose and Bruce Bowen do throughout a game to keep it close or give them a lead before other people "close the game out". You're basically giving the Kobefan argument right now. Acting like the final few minutes means more than the entire game, so all ups and all success prior to that barely means anything. I don't agree with any notion like that whatsoever.
Then way did Bowen finish most of the games he played for the Spurs since Jackson left?Bowen played SF. They wanted offense and playmaking on the floor to close games. It's been that way for years.
Which games didn't he finish?Manu didn't finish every important game, he just finished some.
Well, if he was the best playmaker out of all of the wings on the team, I'd say there's a good chance he was among the best 5 players of that roster, tbh.The reason he was on the floor was because his playmaking was the best out of the SGs and SFs on the team.
Who the is saying that? Stop making up to try to the defend your re ed argument.They needed someone to keep dumping it to Duncan who was doing most of the work. Don't act like Manu was some kind of go to closing scorer or some . 9 PPG/38% in the playoffs.
I don't give a what other people are saying, I quoted your stupid ass post saying that Manu wasn't a top 5/6 player on that team.Nope, go look at the other posts. People are saying DRob was a bum, that Parker was a scrub, that Bowen was barely useful, and you have Jackson defenders. The only person only I spoke about that no one else did was Malik Rose who imo was underrated in value and at least as important as Ginobili that year. The roles were different, but he was as impactful to me.
You're making up, Rose finished a lot of games instead of Robinson and it wasn't because of health problems. It was because on that specific night Rose was playing better and/or because of matchup situations.Like I said, Rose didn't close games unless there were health concerns. DROb had a bad back. Rose was an excellent role player and underrated piece that year. Just as important as Manu.
Keep grasping at all the straws you want. All I know is he was definitely a top 5 player on that team.He was arguably only as neccessary or less so as Jackson or Rose. He was inarguably not nearly as neccessary as Duncan, Parker, and DRob. You can argue he was as neccessary as Bowen, but I'd disagree since I don't think it was that close. Let's not forget who frustrated Kobe into that terrible series to finally get us past the Lakers.
I hadn't naysayed no-one, in fact accepted that Parker and Robinson were more important than Manu that year. Again, stop making up.With so many question marks, the word "definitely" doesn't apply. I think you're both embellishing Manu's usefulness and lowballing how useful everyone but Duncan was. You've naysayed everyone besides him (and Manu) so far. And obviously you can't naysay Duncan, otherwise I'd have no doubt you'd have been doing that too just to prop up Manu some more.
Thanks for bringing 2004 up. If Pop hadn't thought Manu was a top 5 player on 2003 how is possible that Pop gave him such a predominant role the next year from the get go? He teared up on preaseason?I don't take anything away from Ginobili from 2004-2011 besides being injury plagued. But 2003? 2013? Just stop. He wasn't that good.
I choose to sink, tbh. Effort/trying is overrated, per par. It's easier just to give up.
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