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Sounds about right. Splitter actually plays PF most of the time, when paired with Duncan. Its actually rare that Duncan plays or even guards PF anymore.
Excuse me if someone's mentioned it elsewhere - haven't been around much. Kareem was interviewed at the All-Star game - seemed relaxed and at ease.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HyTI...ature=youtu.be
Duncan's mentioned at 1:03 (most dominant international player) and 8:02 (best center) - Parker and Manu a bit after 1:03.
Sounds about right. Splitter actually plays PF most of the time, when paired with Duncan. Its actually rare that Duncan plays or even guards PF anymore.
Some people (Malone lovers) love saying "Tim Duncan is a C" when discussing the greatest PF arguments, But honestly.. Timmy's best years (99-04) were at the PF spot. That's why the whole "He's a C" argument doesn't make much sense.
But as of now, Tim is definitely a Center. I can't recall the last time he guarded a PF... Well.. He was the one who defended Bosh in the finals, but did Bosh qualify as a PF or a C? I don't know, the lineups for both sides were kinda screwy.
he was a PF at the beginning of his career and has moved to Center towards the end of his career. The thing is if you consider him a PF he's the greatest ever, and if you consider him a Center he's top 5 at that position. Doesn't really matter where they list him dude is a top 3 big man of all time.
Problem is people have their own definitions of C and PF.
And it's usually an offensive designation which is half of the game.
He plays both within a single game depending on who he is paired with.
And he plays both on defense depending on the opposition.
He handles the ball a lot on the perimeter... A lot more than what is typical of "centers".
These days most power fowards at the end of their career can't handle the foot speed of younger ones. That's why Duncan plays a lot more at center now. As does Kevin Garnett. I think Miami plays Bosh more at center for different reasons, mainly because of their lack of size. I think Timmy's still more qualified to play PF than Splitter. He's got the midrange game that most PFs possess nowadays. I'm pretty sure Splitter's capable of hitting the midrange jumper, but we've never really seen that from him in the NBA. Plus it's not like Splitter's a quick athletic big guy.
Exactly. For the first 8 years or so of his career he was clearly a PF. Now the older he has gotten he has switched to C. But he does play both positions every game, that is one of the things that makes him so great. He can play either position within a single game.
Excellent video, Kareem has nice points of view about everything, like Lebron on the 5 best players ever Lol!
" a very good player "
you Kareem imo
But that's not the reason. Duncan started his career in a league full of dominant hall-of-fame caliber guys that were true centers, including the one that he brought donuts to as a rookie. He and guys like Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, and Jermaine O'Neal were in similar situations so all of them played power forward.
Fast forward to today, and there are zero dominant centers in the league, to the point that the NBA has eliminated it from the all star ballot. This is when people suddenly start saying that Duncan is actually a center. Duncan hasn't suddenly become something other than he's always been.
Duncan has been a C since 2008.
Uhhh, David was not nearly as good with his back to the basket compared to the threat of a face up jumper/drive. David played very much like what I would define as a power forward on offense. When with Duncan, David's offensive game had already declined. So again people mix up what a C/PF is with certain players.
I can say Malone is the prototypical power forward and Howard is a center. Yet Duncan never ran nearly the amount of fast breaks like Malone. Duncan's post up game was/is much more varied than Howard. Howard has zero jump shot and a very inconsistent post up game yet that's all Howard does on offense. We make up positions now, but there are different types of PF and Centers. They are just designations to tidy things up IMO. Duncan's versatility and evolution with age have always made him difficult to designate.
Bob Lanier was considered a center as was Wes Unseld. But their games were completely different. One would most likely consider Lanier a PF at 6 11' and Unseld a C at 6 7' in today's designations. It's difficult to label, even in the Stone Age.
Last edited by pgardn; 02-19-2014 at 01:02 AM.
He was a PF when Oberto was with the Spurs. After that, the role of TD was in between PF/C because no one else can do both positions well other than him.
Then you're an example of someone who gets positions confused. Being a post threat is irrelevant to position unless we're going to call Mark Jackson and Kevin McHale centers too. David was never anything but a center. And he played like a shooting guard on offense due to his athletecism but he wasn't a shooting guard.
Did he comment something about SuperTiago too?
This is hilarious, so what is relevant? Why was David nothing but a center when he was a 7 footer that could not post and was a jump shooter/ dribble drive. If it's because he played in the paint on defense I understand YOUR designation. So Marc Jackson got covered by centers because he could post guards? Mchale did play center when Parrish was not next to him at times. Unless they had some clumsy big like Joe Klien in with him.
And tell me why Bob Lanier was called a center? Even Bob McAdoo was considered a center on Buffalo.
Spell out out the criteria for a center v. A power forward since it's perfectly clear to you. Thanks.
Hmmm. It's really funny that you said:
...which hits the nail right on the head and I completely agree with. Somehow you have completely ed yourself up trying to pick a fight by trying to define what part of the offense makes someone a power forward. Why you decided to do this I don't exactly know, as this is a position I didn't even think you agreed with when I replied to it, nor would I even attempt to try to define a player that way. Notice I didn't take issue with your part of the post, I simply pointed out why I think people with "their own definitions of C and PF" are mistaken when it comes to Duncan.
Frankly I don't understand why you got so defensive in response and started overthinking it. You've certainly talked your way out of the position that I initially agreed with, because the two ideas are mutually exclusive. Duncan is what he is because of who he played beside, not because he's a good low post player or because the Spurs don't run fast breaks like they did when Robinson was on the team.
I took way too long writing out the history of the Spurs from the time Robinson was on the team to Duncan taking over, all the way to today, but I suspect that you know all this , so I erased it. I can if you want, but it just reinforces what you said and what I agreed with. If you want to go fight with someone about Bob Lanier I'm sure you can find someone.
By the way, I'll let slide that you characterized David Robinson as someone who couldn't post up, because I'm sure it's hyperbole.
This is your response to my post boss.
So you agree? But you don't...
You responded to my post to begin with, not the other way around.
So what's a true center? Robinson in your opinion. Why? I merely stated definitions are blurred. Even with David IMO.
And imo the biggest weakness with David's game was posting up. Not trying to be difficult, just pointing out what I thought was obvious. But you don't consider posting up an attribute of a center, I guess... And you consider David a good post up player, I guess. (I think it was by far the weakest part of his offensive game, even detrimental as he aged and lost his ability to drive.)
So, define a center. I look at past players and today's designations and get even more confused. You made light of it.
So help me out.
Dude doesn't age. He was an adult when he made Game of Death with Bruce Lee and look at him now, he looks 50.
Do you understand that responding to a post doesn't have to be a disagreement? Let's go back and change the "but" at the beginning of my post to an "and", so it doesn't sound like I'm contradicting you, complete with my apologies. I am, in fact, contradicting the people you referred to who define a center by some small factor of his game that resembles something they're comfortable with. If I'd said "and" and not "but" you probably wouldn't have rushed to the defense of all those people you'd made the comment about.
I can agree to some extent that definitions are blurred. Timmy could be considered to have played both power forward and center his senior year at Wake. Hakeem (when he was Akeem) was technically a power forward next to Ralph Samson. I'm sure there's confusion with old-school guys. If we're just going to say that every lineup on the floor has to be pigeonholed into one of the five positions, then David spent more time with the Spurs as a starting small forward than he did as a starting power forward. Realistically there's really not much confusion about David, as he played with textbook power forwards his entire career until he suddenly had both Will Purdue and Tim Duncan next to him in '98. It would be much more accurate to say that they ran two centers and a forward or even three centers.
I'm not sure why you keep trying to get me to define a center the way you said and I agreed that people incorrectly do it. It's incorrect. I disagree with it. Next to Robert Horry, Tim Duncan's a center. Next to Rasho Nesterovic, Tim Duncan's a power forward. That's about all the wiggle room we get, but the difference seems pretty obvious, particularly over time. We saw Robert Horry play center in smallball lineups for the Spurs, and we've seen Kawhi in the same role, but they aren't centers. The Spurs had crap at the center position for several years in a row, and Duncan was the only defensive big and the only guy within 15 feet of the basket on offense, so we can say he's a center for that time, though he's really a power forward on a team that doesn't have any centers.
If you had a transcendent player who defied his size and played his entire career at a position (Magic Johnson) then you'd call that person what they are based on a career of play. Those players are few and far between, so much so that you wouldn't call Lebron James, transcendent though he is, a point guard even as he leads his team in assists.
Ok then...
Maybe we needed practice pressing the keyboard.
Don't know what the fuss is about positions. IMO, TD plays both. On offense, he plays center when he plays with Diaw and Bonner. He plays PF (on offense) when he plays with Splitter, Baynes or Ayres. On defense, he plays the slowest guy (usually the center). Anyway, nice to know that the oldies (Russell and KAJ) appreciate TD.
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