Reply With Quote
fixed ...
If youve watched the last few games on the Rodeo trip then youll hear Sean drop in an "Oh it looks like the Spurs are going into a zone" comment every now and then
Pop is known for hating any non-traditional defensive schemes especially zones so its interesting to see him go to that tactic now
One big problem the Spurs have faced is defense against elite teamsthey are surrendering something like 112pts per 100 possessions vs the top 6 teams in the NBA
for those who dont know this is a 2-3 zone
this kind of defense is especially good at defending the rim and its actually what Dallas used to defeat Miami in the 2011 Finals by shutting out James who has no jumpshot
but for San Antonio and the opponents theyll face in the Western conference it makes no sense to play tbh..
Portland is a jumpshooting team in every sense of the word and they actually ranked bottom 5 in points scored in the paint last time I checked so they would NOT be a team to go 2-3 zone vs
Houston has killed SA by mostly going fluke from 3 point range and theyre also a high volume chucking 3 point team
OKC is the team I could see it being utilized vs but one of the biggest holes for the 2-3 zone is the midrange area, especially the high post
these are areas Chuckbrook, Dominoes, and Abaka all specialize in and how they beat the Spurs in the 2012 playoffs
they got extremely hot from the midrange area
So really the zone puzzles me not only because are the Spurs a team who to me doesn't seem to communicate much on the defensive end as much as they just know exactly where to be because of a specific system in place that tells them what to do but also because the team lacks lateral quickness overall and theyre playing in an era which teams want to shoot 3s
The zone has actually worked in the few possessions they have gone to this season but I dont expect to see it hold up in the playoffs if teams become prepared for it
Also expect to see Pop go to it vs the Pistons on Wednesday tbh...
fixed ...
I hate when they play zone, it never works.
it only takes one person to a zone up, all 5 have to be on the exact same page,
which is never the case with our crappy defensive players like Parker, Errors, and Belly
Pop spoke rather extensively about the zone during one of his shootaround press sessions on the RRT. Might have been the one in Washington. Anyway, it's posted somewhere in this forum if you care enough to look. (ace3g was almost certainly the poster)
Basically, he's using it because of all the different line-up combinations that result from the injuries. One the one hand, zone defenses are far less complicated to run. On the other, NBA teams (Spurs included) are often flummoxed in the short term when confronted with a zone. My take was that he regards it as a gimmick that can be effective in small doses, especially in the regular season when opponents don't game plan for it.
Kind of like small ball, which means Pop will be using it most of the time in the future.My take was that he regards it as a gimmick that can be effective in small doses, especially in the regular season when opponents don't game plan for it.
Except that it's nothing like that..
This.
Added to the fact that it is simpler than the Spurs' defensive sets and thus useful for people who don't know the sets too well, it is also easier and less physically demanding than the regular sets, meaning players who are tired or slow don't have to move as much or as fast.
Spurs defensive sets are about as easy as it could possibly be tbh...
Zone is extremely complicated since it takes a lot of communication and the Spurs roster is filled with guys who hate speaking like Duncan/Leonard
the 7 footer is the most important guy in the zone since he can see everything and has to call it out which guys like Duncan would fail at but the Tyson Chandler/Noah/Garnetts excel at
Spurs defensive sets are also basically force baseline/keep out of middle
bigs sit back in the paint and contest at the rim and let other bigs shoot pick and pops and stop PG penetration
guards go underneath screens and get opposing guards to shoot midrange shots
everyone crashes the glass
Spurs dont use any non-traditional defensive tactics ever such as trapping, zones, switching, or double teams
the only time I can think of the Spurs doubling is vs Carmelo Anthony which always ends up failing and why New York has a winning record vs SA in the past few years
The spurs bring weak side doubles pretty often tbh.
The spurs play switching defense depending on which team they are up against, and at what point in the game they are.
When they had two functioning big guys, they used to play a simple, "run them off the perimeter into our bigs who will block their shots". They don't do that effectively anymore, so you see less of it. Now our perimeter defenders are supposed to run them to the middle, where our bigs are supposed to pick them up, but frequently our bigs just keep backing down so far (purposely to force a mid-range jumper) to avoid a handoff to the other teams' bigs, resulting in a pot load of jumpers and mid-range shooters having enormous games against us.
Our defense is only really effective when we are playing passing lanes and trying to make steals, but that takes so much energy to play that we can't sustain both that and any kind of effective offense because we are old (er) and slow (er) than we used to be.
I think Mel_13 hit the nail on the head. A zone defense will normally confuse an opponent and throw their offense out of rhythm. It isn't a long term solution one bit, but instead almost like a diversionary tactic. If a team is pounding you in the paint, you are going to have to force them to start shooting jumpers. The zone defense has a higher chance of forcing a team into them than regular man defense. It also forces more passes to be made because the ball handler will most likely have to pass to get a shot. Lillard, Westbrook, Durant, James, Wade, and Harden (among others) will be forced to play more of an off-ball game. They are devastating with the ball in their hands creating their own shot. The zone can throw a small monkey wrench in it and force passes and motions that a player just isn't as used to. It could also force other players on the team to attempt to score more because a good zone defense is also good at running down the shot clock. Of course all this only happens if the zone defense is a really good one.
I can totally see them running it against Portland when Lillard is resting. It worked last game.
Just wanted to say, great thread and insightful posts here. I especially agree with the take on us lacking lateral quickness to get back and defend the three and about how our d is most effective when we play passing lanes to make the steal but how that wears on our older players.
Because of the injuries we have to play some players who are pretty bad defensively. A zone can cover up some of those deficiencies.
And a zone can be learned quickly by new players.You might actually see Austin Daye on the court in a zone--but he probably won't get minutes in the regular Spurs defensive schemes because they have to be learned, practiced until they become second nature to a player.
The Spurs really only play a zone when they are too small to match up with the opposing team. In the Portland game, the Spurs ran it when Green was at the four and Bonner the five. Normally, the Spurs wouldn't dream of running a zone because they have brilliant man dwfenders. But they had to gang-defend against Portland due to all the mismatches.
never fukin works. the reason for most of our losses this season, the reason for 3 of our losses in the finals last year. there isn't a team in the league that does not have at least 2 guys that can hit open 3s. and we are always leaving shooters open hoping they miss. parker and bellinelli sit in the lane looking stupid and when their assignment gets the ball, they have to run out 10-13 feet to play defense.. but i'm just a forum poster, popovich is the greatest coach ever. maybe losing games this way is something we just don't understand yet and will see the greatness in it when he retires.
Disregarding certain matchups I think the Spurs have zoned up quite a bit against out of bounds plays. I think it does well in stopping the initial action of most plays which is usually some cut towards the basket or a series of screens to get a shooter open.
I will definitely be paying closer attention in the upcoming games to see exactly when they choose to deploy the zone and how effective they are defending in those situations.
Pop said last week “No matter how you slice it, you play a zone, and the other team stops,” said Popovich, whose team returns to the AT&T Center on Wednesday against Detroit. “We all moan and groan about it as coaches. For some reason, in the NBA, teams are discombobulated when they see a zone.”
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/sp...ne-5260961.php
Phoenix Suns and coach Gentry against Lakers in 2010, that was the last time I have seen a team play zone long time in playoffs, it worked one or two games of the series.
I don't hate zone, it just kind of stopped tempo offense of opponents, get some stops, get out in transition because it takes them out of their rhythm, and maybe the other teams don't attack the zone effectively and settle for a lot of threes.
I don't know that it's true that Pop "hates" the idea of playing zone. As far back as 2002-03, he generously used zone defensive schemes in the playoffs to mix things up.
He also brought Jim Boeheim, undoubtedly a zone guru, to training camp back in 2005 to teach the 2-3 zone (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26564).
I like the zone defense. I don't know why more coaches don't use it more, especially when time is winding down on shot clock or at end of quarters/games when you know Superstar player is going to try and take it the rim and draw a foul. It's a great way to slow a team down and take the momentum away. NBA players are so used to getting a screen and penetrating to basket and then either get fouled or pass it to player at three point area. As a coach you come to expect man to man so your offense is dictated on expecting certain movement from players on other teams this creates a shot opportunity because of all the movement. With a zone defense you are forced to make a pass and this takes it out of Superstar players hand. NBA teams aren't very good at setting up offensively and making passes. Now eventually Superstar may get it back but only after some passes are made. This is why I think its great to run at the end of a quarter because you know Superstar is going to have the ball on one side of the court and other players give him room to operate. Don't get me wrong eventually teams will figure it out and adapt. But then of course as a coach you come to expect that so you switch to another style of defense.
I always thought of man to man as defense as playing checkers and zone defense as playing chess. Most coaches/players can play checkers but very few players/coaches can play chess because it forces you to think.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
