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The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few or the one.
Spock.
I was waiting for this:
ACLU PRESS RELEASE: http://www.nyclu.org/mta_searches_suit_pr_080405.html
In response to the NYPD's unprecedented policy of subjecting millions of New Yorkers to su ion-less searches, the New York Civil Liberties Union today filed suit in federal court seeking an injunction to halt the policy. The lawsuit filed today argues that the NYPD is violating the Fourth Amendment rights of commuters by adopting and enforcing a policy of searching possessions of those seeking to enter the subway system without any su ion of wrongdoing. Since the police adopted this policy two weeks ago, officers have searched the purses, handbags, briefcases and backpacks of thousands of people, all without any su ion of wrongdoing. "This NYPD bag search policy is unprecedented, unlawful and ineffective, said Donna Lieberman, Executive Director of the NYCLU. "It is essential that police be aggressive in maintaining security in public transportation. But our very real concerns about terrorism do not justify the NYPD subjecting millions of innocent people to su ion-less searches in a way that does not identify any person seeking to engage in terrorist activity and is unlikely to have any meaningful deterrent effect on terrorist activity."
In addition to violating the cons utional rights of millions of subway riders, the NYPD policy appears to be ineffective as a security measure. The NYPD is not conducting searches at most subway entrances at any given time, is giving advance notice about searches at those entrances where searches are being conducted, is allowing people selected for a search to walk away, and is not basing the searches on any su ious activity of individuals. As common sense would suggest, the NYPD's program is virtually certain neither to catch any person trying to carry explosives into the subway system nor to deter such an effort. Indeed, given the way the Department has implemented its search program, the only people being searched are innocent users of the subway system.
And although the NYPD claims that they are conducting searches that are purely random, the large number of people entering the transit system and the lack of control over that traffic result in people being selected for search in a discretionary and arbitrary manner, which creates the potential for impermissible racial profiling.
"We have no objection to reasonable searches, but we cannot and will not stand by while the police depjartment seeks to expunge the Fourth Amendment from the Cons ution with a program that subjects millions of people to su ion-less searches and that serves virtually no public-safety purpose," said Christopher Dunn, Associate Legal Director of the NYCLU, lead counsel on the case.
Long-established cons utional principles hold that individuals retain the right to move about on our public streets and thoroughfares freely and without police intrusions and that, as a general matter, police officers may not search individuals on our sidewalks and thoroughfares in the absence of individualized su ion.
The NYCLU lawsuit was filed today in US District Court for the Southern District of New York. Assisting on the case are Arthur Eisenberg, Legal Director of the NYCLU, and staff attorneys Jeff Fogel and Palyn Hung.
The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few or the one.
Spock.
The needs of the many do not outweigh the rights of the few.
Manny
The starters of this thread must read this blog.
http://mexiricanvertwo.blogspot.com/
Alright, I'll bite.
What's the difference between the subway searches and the random searches at the airport?
Several things. But one thing they have alike is that they should be discontinued just like the random airport searches.
Is there a price to pay for discontinuing the searches? Sadly, yes, and it would probably cost lives.
But I live in Mississippi, so I don't give a . No terrorist threats here!
Wait a sec! I have a 4 day business trip to Philly in Sept.
Search everyone!
Hey, I'm all for searching everyone (barring they are actually legal, this has never been proven). I'm not for ineffective random searches, however.
I think the cops should be allowed to shoot people who look funny. That'll work.
Here's the problem Manny...
There's not enough manpower to search everyone, and they can't profile otherwise the dip s (like the ones filing suit today) will say it's racially motivated.
, the two biggest allies AQ has in their war against us are our media and the PC bull that has taken seige here in America.
Well, I'd kinda like the cops to not have the ability to cap anyone they feel like.
Un-American Pussy.
Actually, those aren't the biggest allies AQ has but part of the group that watches out over civil liberties because people are all too willing to just throw them away without a second thought.
BTW, you fail to miss the point that these random searches are just as ineffective as the airport random searches which were ended.
I'd venture to say the biggest ally AQ has are the people in control who keep putting half assed measures that do nothing to increase our security.
I agree the half-assed measures don't work, but if they didn't do anything, they'd get reamed if another attack happened. A lot of our security, from these random bag searches, to the metal detectors at airports, are just for the sake of the appearance of doing something.
Go ahead and bash me however you want - we need to embrace the Israeli system of security checks.
They have no metal detectors at their airports. They give every passenger a 20 question interview that is rooted in psychology. The whole idea is at some point in the 20 questions, you will up if your story isn't true.
They start out asking you things like where you're going and who you're visiting, and progress from there. They ask questions that are designed to trip you up if you're lying.
THey've had less airline hijackings in the last 20 years than pretty much any country in the world that has a decent amount of airline traffic.
We should be implementing the same system at the subways and the airports, it would go a whole lot further than random bag searches and metal detectors.
I'd venture to say that Israeli security should not be the model of best practice.
Dumbass with a gun on a bus notwithstanding, their airline security would have nailed all the 9/11 hijackers before they could even get on a plane.
Quit being so close-minded. How many terrorists has the US airport security caught? Ever?
One of my classmates my final year at A&M did her thesis on Israeli airport security, they'd caught something like 200 people intending to hijack a plane in the the span of 1998-2003 (1998 was when they implemented their program), and not had a plane hijacked a life lost due to hijacking.
Meanwhile in the same time frame we lost over 3000 people, 4 airplanes, and two of the tallest buildings in the world.
Think I'll go with the Israelis on this one. They live this every day.
Well, they are doing a stand-up job at the nightclubs and bus stops.
How many US planes have been hijacked since 9-11?How many terrorists has the US airport security caught? Ever?
...
they'd caught something like 200 people intending to hijack a plane in the the span of 1998-2003 (1998 was when they implemented their program), and not had a plane hijacked a life lost due to hijacking.
How many attempts has AQ made?
How many have they made in Israel?
Deterence is just as good as, if not better than, catching someone in the act
I've got no problems with searches.
, they go through our stuff when we go to Fiesta Texas.
If a search is going to get your panties up in a wad then don't travel on the subways or airlines.
If I see searches going on I'm probably less likely to carry my "herbal" supplements on board.
I don't like racial profiling but random searching is okay by me.
And I do believe that the protection of the many out weighs the discomfort of a few. ~~Joe Chalupa
But that's just me.
i can't believe anyone would even argue against random searches... it blows my mind... manny must have something to hide...
You know, it just occurred to me, I get searched at Best Buy. Anyone got the NYCLU's number? Maybe when they get done with destroying an attempt to make subway travel safer they can come worry about something important like the old man at the door checking my bag.
Of course you don't understand. You don't understand anything that goes against what your government says it wants to do, regardless of how useless it is.
Random bag searches don't stop people from doing . They are ing USELESS. But yes, I'm really a terrorist so thats why I'm against them. I have to hide that, you know.
I know! I'm so sick of electing my local Best Buy representative only to have them give my Best Buy rights away!
Oh wait, they are a private organization on private property and entrence to them is volantary, correct?
Chance of catching one of the London Terrorists bombs WITHOUT random searches: ZERO
Chance of catching one of them with random searches: Better than Zero.
I think anytime you have a chance to save lives, you go with the higher percentage option. Guess not with you. You Liberals love it when innocents die. It gives you more fodder against Bush.
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