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  1. #1
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Obama Administration Argues in Favor of Right to Fire Public Employees Who Testify at Corruption Trials


    Deputy Solicitor General Ian Gershengorn


    The Supreme Court heard arguments today over whether public employee who testify under subpoena at public corruption trials should be protected by the First Amendment. The position of President Barack Obama’s administration appears to be that they should not be protected.


    The case is Lane v. Franks and it involves Edward Lane, who according to NPR was “hired in 2006 to head a program for juvenile offenders” at Central Alabama Community College that provided “counseling and education as an alternative to incarceration.” The program “received substantial federal funds.”


    Lane conducted an audit and discovered that one of the program’s “best-paid employees, a state representative named Suzanne Schmitz, was not showing up for work.” He met with her and was told that he shouldn’t “tangle” with her because she had influence. He refused to be complicit and fired Schmitz.


    The FBI was investigating “public corruption in Alabama” and Lane was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury and at Schmitz’s two trials. She was convicted of “fraudulently obtaining $177,000 in public funds.” Yet, Lane never received any reward for his role. He was, instead, fired and decided to sue because he believed his termination was retaliation for testifying. It violated his First Amendment rights.


    Ian H. Gershengorn, deputy solicitor general for the Justice Department, argued against extending First Amendment protection to public employees who are subpoenaed to testify. In fact, he suggested that a police officer who testified on a search warrant in court could be fired for providing testimony.


    “We think that, for example, a police officer whose job it is to investigate and testify about what he saw to support a warrant or something,” Gershengorn argued. “It would still be part of his job responsibilities. The fact of the subpoena doesn’t change that a technician or officer or an investigator may be called to testify as part of his duties.”


    “So you could fire him because he testified?” Chief Justice John Roberts asked.


    Gershengorn replied, “Your Honor, there is a range of disciplinary activities that would be available to employees.”


    The Justice Department imagines that if the Supreme Court rules in favor of Lane they will not be able to judge or evaluate the performance of employees because those employees could claim their First Amendment rights were violated. But there is something called the “Pickering balance,” which would still remain in effect making it possible to fire an employee if he or she was incompetent, disorderly or displayed poor judgment when testifying.


    Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked, “What are you doing about the truth finding functions of a trial setting when you’re saying or telling people, employee, don’t go and tell the truth because if the truth hurts your employer you’re going to be fired?” And, “What kind of message are we giving when we’re telling employees, [who are] subpoenaed [for] any reason in a trial, go and tell a falsehood otherwise you can be fired?”


    Roberts really had a tough time grappling with this position the Obama administration endorsed.


    “I still don’t understand or didn’t understand what it is you’re saying. If he testifies, and you don’t want to keep the corruption secret. You know, you don’t want to reveal it and he testifies truthfully and reveals it. Can he be disciplined for this?” Roberts asked Mark Waggoner, an attorney representing Steve Franks, the college president.


    If it was testimony that was “factual, based solely on the job duties, as it was here, inseparable from the job duties, and it is information that a citizen would not know,” it would not be protected speech, Waggoner argued.


    Roberts said, “Well, what is he supposed to do? I mean, he gets a subpoena, and the other side or somebody, this independent counsel, says, you know, what’s going on? What do you know about, you know, from your job responsibilities? What happened or did you—is this person taking money? Is this person showing up? What’s he supposed to do?”


    “He says, gosh, if I answer, I’m going to lose my job or could, and if I don’t or answer falsely—the Fifth Amendment protects him from incriminating himself. It doesn’t protect the department he works for from being incriminated.”


    “We would never suggest that anybody not comply with a subpoena, comply with an investigation, or testify truthfully,” Waggoner claimed. And Roberts replied, “But you are suggesting he can be fired if he does it.”


    “If it does not offend the First Amendment, and we believe that’s why we’re here,” Waggoner added.


    To the defense attorney representing Franks and the deputy solicitor general arguing the Obama administration’s position, they would like a whole category of speech to be deemed off-limits to employees who wish to keep their jobs in government. They contend that “factual testimony based only on knowledge that an employee has pursuant to their official duties” should not be protected. It is not information that an average citizen would know. Only as employees do they know that information.


    Such a rationale could be used to not only fire employees who testify in court but also employees who write newspaper articles or give interviews to the press.


    It is but another way that the Obama administration supports measures that make it possible to crack down on whistleblowers.


    What the American Civil Liberties Union argued in its amicus brief submitted clearly outlines how this position by the Obama administration discourages individuals from coming forward to testify in public corruption trials.


    “A public official who has information that is relevant to an ongoing public corruption investigation may come forward and speak to the FBI if she can be confident that the government will later compel her testimony under subpoena, so as to insulate her from retaliatory action. But far more likely, uncertainty in the law—combined with the fact that the employee’s job hangs in the balance—will dissuade the employee from coming forward altogether,” the ACLU’s brief declares.


    “Sworn statements relevant to a judicial proceeding always advance the judiciary’s truth-seeking function, and always fulfill an individual’s civic responsibility.” They should be protected by the First Amendment. Unfortunately, the Obama administration believes it must have the power to retaliate and dissuade employees from engaging in speech that might embarrass or reflect poorly on the government.

    http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/201...uption-trials/

  2. #2
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Pickering v. Board of Education
    Established the Pickering Balance Test that has been in use ever since for establishing public employees and employers rights with regards to forced testimony. A summary can be found at http://publicpersonnellaw.blogspot.c...cing-test.html (Quoted below)

    The so-called Pickering Test is applied in evaluating the interests of a public employer with the its employees’ right to Free Speech and requires the court’s consideration of the following:
    1. Did the individual demonstrate that his or her speech address a matter or matters of public interest and concern?

    2. Did the individual demonstrate that his or her speech was a significant or motivating factor in the employer's decision?

    3. Did the court balance the interests of the individual commenting on matters of public concern as a citizen and the public employer's interest in "promoting the efficiency of public service?"
    http://publicpersonnellaw.blogspot.c...cing-test.html

  3. #3
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Garcetti v. Ceballos

    Occurred after Alito joined the court. This was a 5-4 ruling (Surprise, right?) that public employees when speaking in their role as a public employee are not speaking as private citizens. As such, they do not have full first amendment rights when testifying in their role as a public employee.

    Have all that? A simple roll up is that Pickering defines whether a public employee testifying is doing so as an employee or as a private citizen. Garcetti defines the difference in protected speech rights in those two cases.

    So why is there a limit to first amendment rights for public employees testifying as public employees? Because, if a public employee's job has a reasonable expectation of giving testimony (i.e. police, agents, etc), then their supervisors need to be able to use that fact in their evaluations and retention decisions (More on this later, as well).

    The 11th Circuit Overstep:
    The 11th Circuit took an overly broad definition of Garcetti by stating that Edward Lane had no First Amendment rights in his testimony. There is a full expectation that part, if not all, of the 11th Circuit's decision will be overturne
    d

    The Administration's role in this case:

    The Administration filed, and presented, an animus curiae on this case. An animus curiae is when a non-involved party presents or gives information they feel is relevant to the case or when they have a concern germane to its outcome.

    In this case, the administration is asking for a rollback of the 11th Circuit's decision.

    The animus brief can be found at http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...itedStates.pdf

  4. #4
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    - Argues that Lane's testimony was in the public interest and was protected (i.e. the administration is saying Lane was wrongly fired; FDL is just plain wrong)

    - That rolling back the 11th Circuit decision to its broadest definition; where all testimony by public employees is protected speech would be detrimental to supervising and managing employees that testify as part of their job responsibilities--including thousands of agents and police officers (as I mentioned earlier). As the federal government is the largest public employer, this would significantly hinder management efforts. It is worth noting that even Edward Lane's lawyer does not support this broad of a definition--he wants a roll-back so that all public employee testimony is measured by the Balance test.

    Government would like a narrow reversal of the 11th Circuit's decision.

    The US solicitor who gave a statement in support of the animus was questioned by the justices. The justices liked to use hypotheticals on everyone presenting, including Edward Lane's attorney (Asked whether a public employee who showed up to testify in a clown suit could be fired for doing so). To the US solicitor, the hypothetical involved firing someone for testimony that a more senior person did not like. The solicitor answer honestly that, yes, if giving testimony is part of the job and part of the evaluation process then he or she could be fired for doing so (This is what FDL keyed in on), but that whistleblower protections would give them avenues of recourse. In other words, if a person is fired for the content of the testimony and not how it related to his or her job performance they can pursue an injury claim. So no, in no way, is the Obama administration supporting the idea that whistleblowers are without protection.
    So a more brief summary from the wonderful SCOTUSblog at http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/04/ar...aed-testimony/

  5. #5
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    The Eleventh Circuit’s brief per curiam opinion in Lane v. Franks held that Edward Lane, an employee at a community college program, had no First Amendment protection for his subpoenaed testimony. In oral argument, there was little support for that conclusion. Only one of the four advocates argued for unqualified affirmance, and none of the Justices seemed inclined to fully embrace the Eleventh Circuit’s determination.

    But how completely will the Eleventh Circuit’s decision be reversed? The contours of any correction pose two major issues.

    First, there is the problem of the breadth of a resulting First Amendment rule. It would be difficult to find more sympathetic facts for the protection of a public employee. After Edward Lane became the director of a program for at-risk youth at Central Alabama Community College (CACC), he looked at the program’s finances and soon discovered a state representative was on the payroll. He also discovered she had never done any work for the program. His superiors, including an attorney for the college, advised him to let well enough alone. But he terminated the state representative when she refused to show for work; she vowed to retaliate. She was eventually indicted and Lane testified before a federal grand jury and — pursuant to a subpoena – at her two federal criminal trials for mail fraud and fraud involving a program receiving federal funds. He was terminated between the two trials.

    While Lane seems a stellar employee, as the Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange all but admitted, there were concerns about other employees who might be protected by a bright-line rule protecting testimony. What if the employee is a lab technician who testifies as part of his job duties? Can the employer discipline him if the employee cannot perform this part of his job? Or if, as Justice Sotomayor asked, the employee “comes to court dressed in a clown suit”? Should the subpoena be the deciding factor? Arguing for Edward Lane, Tejinder Singh suggested a narrow holding that essentially reasserted Garcetti v. Ceballos and Pickering v. Board of Education, subject only to the clarification that even when a public employee’s testimony “describes facts that the employee learned in the course of his employment, it’s still protected.” Singh did articulate the “strong version of the First Amendment” rule that would protect testimony based on a “separate and superior obligation to testify truthfully to the court,” but he made clear he did not advocate its adoption. Deputy Solicitor General Ian Gershengorn, appearing on behalf of the federal government as an amicus, argued that such a broad rule would intrude on the government’s ability to supervise its own employees, especially those who testified as part of their employment.
    US is not a pe ioner or defendant but an interested party
    - US wants to protect both the free speech rights of public employees acting as private citizens and its ability to manage those employees where giving testimony is part of the job description
    - US believes Edward Lane was wronged
    - FDL missed the forest for the trees yet again, and has earned its reputation as a joke

  6. #6
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Disgusting

  7. #7
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Obama's war against whistleblowers continues. On this he's been consistent.

  8. #8
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    CYA trumps all.

  9. #9
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    All administrations have had things we can call corrupt. However, I don't think anyone has brought us closer to a police state than Obama has.

  10. #10
    Veteran
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    All administrations have had things we can call corrupt. However, I don't think anyone has brought us closer to a police state than Obama has.
    no matter what the Pres or party, the police/surveillance state will continue to augment, because it can and it will. Congress will not stop it. Repugs gave it a historic boost way above anything since 2009 with DHS, Repug FISA, CIA torture, etc, etc.

  11. #11
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    is that a gripe? a police state would essentially be your utopia, WC.

  12. #12
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    is that a gripe? a police state would essentially be your utopia, WC.
    You know, I used to think you to be a fair and honest person. These last two years or so has proved me wrong. Why do you assume such idiotic ideas with people you disagree with? Are you attempting to go for some troll award?

  13. #13
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    no matter what the Pres or party, the police/surveillance state will continue to augment, because it can and it will. Congress will not stop it. Repugs gave it a historic boost way above anything since 2009 with DHS, Repug FISA, CIA torture, etc, etc.
    And look who elects those people...

  14. #14
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    lol hates snitches...

  15. #15
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    And look who elects those people...
    Repug SCOTUS elected dubya ("don't have time to count carefully, Cons ution says 20 Jan for Inauguration! Repug thugs and bullies, go bully, intimidate the recounting teams")

  16. #16
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Repug SCOTUS elected dubya ("don't have time to count carefully, Cons ution says 20 Jan for Inauguration! Repug thugs and bullies, go bully, intimidate the recounting teams")
    OMG...

    How can you be so ing stupid Larry?

    This has been debated over and over yet you still cannot see the truth.

  17. #17
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    People in general will support Democrats with Republican leaders like Ted Cruz calling the shots.
    These are the true for the people politicians beyond the pull of money just to get re elected.

    Sure thing OP. The democrats and the US would take Obama again over the nut jobs the a Republicans put up.

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