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Hakeem was better hate to say it but it's true.
Battle Blog: David Robinson: Hakeem Olajuwon's
Brodels: Both were great centers, but Olajuwon was better than Robinson. A consideration of playoff success, offensive skills, longevity, and defensive ability demonstrates that Hakeem was superior.
While Hakeem led his team to back-to-back les and was Finals MVP twice, Robinson will be remembered for his playoff failures. Robinson played with limited talent, but Olajuwon won without a dominant second scorer in 1994 and with an aging, talent-thin team in 1995.
Hakeem averaged more points, rebounds, steals, and blocks during the regular season, but he cemented his legacy in the playoffs. While Hakeem increased his scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks, and steals in the playoffs, Robinson's numbers in each of those areas except for rebounding fell. Hakeem dominated because he possessed something Robinson never had: a go-to move. When defenses tighten up in the playoffs, players with refined post skills are better able to score than players relying on pure athleticism.
Robinson was a great defender, but Hakeem was equally good. Hakeem averaged more steals and blocks in his career, and his best seasons in those areas surpass Robinson's best statistical seasons. While Hakeem made the defensive first team five times, Robinson only did so four times.
Finally, Hakeem's longevity supports his dominance. He averaged over 20 points and 10 rebounds twelve times in his career, a feat that Robinson only matched eight times. Hakeem was the better player because he won in the playoffs, had a go-to move, remained dominant for many years, and defended the post as well as anyone.
Guru of Nothing: Your thoughts represent all that is wrong with NBA basketball. Despite David Stern's best efforts to convince us otherwise, basketball is a team sport. Always has been, always will be. To proclaim that David Robinson was Hakeem's " " completely ignores this fundamental fact.
You also ignore many other facts:
In his umpteen years in the NBA, Hakeem won his two les during the only two years Michael Jordan was sentenced to double-secret probation. Coincidence? Was Hakeem someone else's " " all those other years. If you review the past 25 years of NBA playoff basketball, nowhere but the mid-90s will you find a championship team that stumbled so much as "clutch-city." 6th seed .... down repeatedly in playoff series ... LOST 2 IN A ROW AT HOME AGAINST THE SPURS, after winning the first two in SA.
Clutch? I think of Hakeem as the accidental champion.
Seriously, all bluster aside, I think Hakeem's Rockets defeated Robinson's Spurs in the playoffs because the Rockets had the better TEAM, and the better coach. The Rockets redefined the role of the 3-point shot in 1994 playoffs; Bob Hill redefined the role of abject reject.
... And by the way, defensive dominance is not measured by stats and press recognition. Any Spurs fan would know this.
Brodels: When comparing careers, it’s necessary to consider success and ability to dominate. Success is carrying your team to championships, and Hakeem’s got the edge. It’s statistical superiority, and Hakeem’s got the edge. It’s longevity and raising your game in the playoffs, and Hakeem’s got the edge.
Dominance is measured in many ways, but the ability to carry a team to a championship is paramount. Hakeem increased his statistical output in the playoffs and carried his teams to championships. David’s statistics decreased and he never carried his team to a le. Dominance also is measured by a player’s ability to score in the clutch. Hakeem had failsafe post moves; David was limited to using his athleticism to score against athletic defenders.
les are les, and Hakeem won more. The validity of every championship is questioned by someone, but the very best players in league history usually end up winning them.
Guru of Nothing: Hakeem had phenomenal moves near the basket, far better than Robinson; however, using your definitions of success and dominance, he excelled for only two years - the two years Michael Jordan sat out. Coincidence?
I maintain Hakeem and the Rockets dominated the Spurs in the mid-90s because they were the better TEAM. Look beyond the hype - teams win championships. Do not forget, David Robinson played Hakeem straight up in the playoffs, while Hakeem had help (from his TEAMmates) defending Robinson.
Go way back to June of 2005. The Spurs won as a team, not because Tim Duncan dominated another player; likewise for Detroit in 2004.
Reach for the obvious!
Olajuwon and Robinson were rare specimens. It’s disingenuous to argue the merits of one legacy against the other while removing the team element from the discussion – it’s Stephen A. Smith-esque.
In closing, I give to you arithmetic.
2 = 2.
The judges determined that Guru of Nothing won the Blog by the narrowest margin in Battle Blog history.
Hakeem was better hate to say it but it's true.
Hakeem owned David, Thats a hard fact that I have trouble swallowing.
1 on 1?
Robinson.
Sorry, but no. Hakeem has a bad of jukes that david can't seem to handle.
Olajuwon was a monster on the defensive end. Dude averaged over four blocks a game in three different seasons. For a 6'10 player, that is incredible to me.
Guru pulled that one out of his ass because there is no way that Hakeem is secondary to Dave, and I LOVE Dave.
Before Duncan came along, I practically worshipped Olajuwon, and knew that Robinson was his mirror image. But when it came down to leading their teams to a le, we all know who wins that argument.
David Robinson is one of the classiest guys who has ever played basketball, and was a phenomenal basketball specimen. But next to Hakeem? Anybody remember the 1995 playoffs?
How can we forget 95, I'm sure David had nightmares of those jukes, pumps, and blocks.
Good job Gon...It does my heart good to see a Spurfan that knows enough about the game to realize it's a team game and it takes more than just running Duncan out there to win a le.
Anyone that ever watched them play against each other...one on one...knows that David Robinson was never in any way shape or form Hakeem's ...and Drob was as tough of a match for Hakeem as Hakeem was for Drob. Yeah Hakeem had the moves Drob could not match...and Drob had speed that neither Hakeem...or anyone else could match...
Which is why he was one of the best in NBA history at getting to the FT line..and which is why he was always double teamed in the postseason after his first season in the NBA. To guard the Admiral one on one in his prime was an instant trip to the bench in foul trouble. Teams effectively defended him by having multiple defenders on him and fouling him. He had a go to move...it was called being faster at his position than anyone else in NBA history.
David Robinson wasn't anyones on the basketball court...and in the one on one matchups David got the best of all of them, and they know it.
A one man team cannot win an NBA le...and please don't say any team with Robert Horry and Mario Elie on it was a one man team.
Last edited by whottt; 08-17-2005 at 04:34 AM.
Anybody who actually votes for DRob in this one, please feel free to borrow my username!
I'm a little confused, though. The thread le is David vs Hakeem, but the blog is led David: Hakeem's Biitch. He most certainly was NOT Hakeem's and Hakeem would be the first to tell you that. But if we're talking just the basic David vs Hakeem, they were pretty much equal defensively and I've always thought the biggest differences between them came down to two distinct advantages:
1. Offensive diversity. David had an outside game plus outstanding quickness that he used both facing and back to the basket. Hakeem had an outside game, quickness to the basket, back to the basket quickness AND power, and go to moves that were only stoppable if he missed. His dreamshakes, footwork, and spins are well do ented, but each season he'd come back with extra counter-moves off those shakes and spins so he almost always ended up with a clean release. His offseason work set him apart. Remember, he came into the league as a defensive player with limited offensive game.
2. Inner drive and will. This is an intangible, but Hakeem always seemed to play with a no prisoners effort and mentality. Win or lose, he always seemed to embrace the moment and leave every ounce of effort on the floor. David could play this way as well, but these Herculean efforts seemed to come most often and easily on Olympic teams or All Star teams when he was free to be "the most talented guy" and didn't necessarily have to be "the everything rides on me guy". It always seemed to me that Hakeem was more at ease in that role. Remember when Elie came to the Spurs and started riding/chiding Robinson. It was apparent David didn't like it, but it did bring that something extra out of David. Simply put, Hakeem didn't need Elie, or anyone else, to shift into that gear.
Look, before you flame away, I LOVE DAVID and I'm forever grateful he was here. Without him, the Spurs wouldn't even be here. And I hate having to compare these particular two players because they were so awesome on and off the court. It's almost like splitting hairs. If you were drafting them, it wouldn't suck to pick second,right? But if you were picking first...
Last edited by totalspurshomer; 08-17-2005 at 06:13 AM.
Hakeem may or may not have been better than David, but David certainly wasn't his " ". Sorry.
Hakeem was definitely better than Robinson. Not by much though
I, up to the last few months have always thought that hakeem was a better player then drob. But then I realized that the series that both players are compared are the 95 playoff series.
I felt that hakeem "schooled" drob during that series. Now I've come to realize that drob didn't have much of a supporting cast while hakeem had a good supporting cast. And that hakeem had the help of thorpe. David never really had that other post guy besides mings in his first 2 years and of course td.
I still think hakeem is 1mm of a notch better then drob. Because:
1. Hakeem has the best back to the basket game only rivaled by td as far as footwork and playing by the rules (you hear that shaq).
2. Hakeem knew how to play basketball. In other words he knew how to use his body when he was scoring or maybe he just had more coordination then drob. Drob was all speed on offense, he just almost recklessly went to the hoop and always seemed uncoordinated to me.
On a side note, I wonder how the media would view drob if he had clyde on his team during drob's prime in a major market team ala LA.
Out of the 48 times Hakeem and David met during their careers, David won his matchup 36 times or a 3:1 margin. I don't still have the link but it was in an ESPN article about comparing great centers head-to-head sometime last year. To me, that is far more statistically significant that a 6 game playoff series where David was double-teamed and Hakeem was not.
Those of you who feel Hakeem was the better player should explain how Dave bested Hakeem those 36 other times.
I'm listening.
Last edited by TwoHandJam; 08-17-2005 at 09:10 AM.
Nice post, unfortunately I didn't have the chance to watch as many games as I do now (living in iowa). I'm sure that if I got to watch at least a game or 2 per season of hou v sa I would have come to the same conclusion, or at least had more evidence to support my claim either way. You could also look at the shaq v drob, drob in his prime always schooled shaq.
I want a Rudy T. vs. Bob Hill blog.
It seems to me that GoN won not because he proved David was better, but because he proved David wasn't Hakeem's . The le of the battle started by Brodels states as his position: "David Robinson: Hakeem Olajuwon's ". If that statement is proved false in the eyes of the judges, he loses. Hakeem can be considered the better player and Brodels could lose this battle because he didn't prove that Hakeem was VASTLY superior to Dave, which is what his le implies.
I personally think Hakeem was a better playoff performer because of his moves around the basket; and usually I wind up ranking Big Dave either right behind Hakeem or at most with one center in between them.
Indeed.
Look...when Hakeem was going off no one man could stop him....it's the truth. And for that 2 year period he went off a lot. But for the rest of his career he really didn't do a good job of carrying his team...anywhere.
What cannot be denied is that for that two years period...You could not double Hakeem...if you did...his supporting cast would bomb you into submission.
But people don't understand just how important it was that Hakeem didn't have to defend David by himself in that series...IF he had he would have not have scored as much because he would have been in foul trouble....he would have been on the court less....
Career FTA Leaders
Player FTA Seasons
1 Karl Malone 13188 19
2 Wilt Chamberlain 11862 14
3 Moses Malone 11090 19
4 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 9304 20
5 Shaquille O'neal 9274 13
6 Oscar Robertson 9185 14
7 Jerry West 8801 14
8 Michael Jordan 8772 15
9 Charles Barkley 8643 16
10 Adrian Dantley 8351 15
11 David Robinson 8201 14
16 Hakeem Olajuwon 7621 18
And David would have a scored a lot more....
Why do you guys think outside shooters, that can hit in the playoffs, are always priority on this team with Tim Duncan? Just go look at what happens to Duncan when we don't have them.
Take a look at how effective David was...at how hard he was to guard....
David being ranked where he is on this list after 14 years is very impressive...keep in mind..he missed virtually a full season of his career and was an offensive sidekick/garbageman for the last 5 years of his career..
So basically David put himself at the top of the list in an 8 year period...
Yes Shaq and Wilt are also on that list in a similar period of time and ranked higher...keep in mind that they were two of the worst FT shooters in NBA history, fouling them was actual strategy in playing them...fouling David Robinson wasn't...teams weren't trying to put David on the line as part of a strategy....and they also were the main guys for virutally all of their careers...
Now take a look at that list again...
Career FTA Leaders
Player FTA Seasons
1 Karl Malone 13188 19
2 Wilt Chamberlain 11862 14
3 Moses Malone 11090 19
4 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 9304 20
5 Shaquille O'neal 9274 13
6 Oscar Robertson 9185 14
7 Jerry West 8801 14
8 Michael Jordan 8772 15
9 Charles Barkley 8643 16
10 Adrian Dantley 8351 15
11 David Robinson 8201 14
16 Hakeem Olajuwon 7621 18
And tell me who was harder to guard one on one?
And for everyone that thinks David was some kind of choker soft guy in the playoffs...
How come his playoff numbers were so awesome his first 2 years in the NBA?
When he had the best supporting casts of his career.
Everyone that thinks David Robinson was unmotivated or didn't care about helping his team win...
The man won a scoring le and a Defensive Poy of the year award, no one else but Jordan has done that......You can't do that if you aren't working hard....
Year in and year out his teams were upper echelon playoff contenders as long as he was healthy...
Hakeem can't say that...
David Robinson was no one's ....and in fact...he had few peers in NBA history as a player capable of carrying a weak team.
Last edited by whottt; 08-17-2005 at 12:43 PM.
Did anybody hear Charlie Rosen on Charlie & Chance this morning? They talked to him about DRob and GG being on his overrated list.
did they nail him for it or were they nice?
Parker had gone off on him yesterday as the article was brought up, so I guess that's why they had Rosen on today. Rosen sounded very pompous. Parker and Chance were civil, but definitely annoyed.
He's a . He isn't even a hasbeen...he is a never was.
the one thing that cannot be disputed is that David went out on top
while the dream over stayed his welcome in the league
David's last image in the league was raising the championship trophy for the only team he ever played for
while dream's last image in the league was hobbling around for the raptors
Last edited by GoSpurs21; 08-17-2005 at 12:59 PM.
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