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Noooooooobody wants none of this. That's right!!!
You s feeling froggy tonight? You talking all that about Jim being so great, huh? Well I'm sitting trump tight over here, you nerds!!! Let's compare Jim to other great big men... preferably Lakers bigs. When you look at this comparison you will see why the Spurs have hung on to that mantra of Duncan being the best PF of all time, because they know they better not dare compare him to true legends that roamed the paint.
Feast your eyes on how Kareem makes Jim's career look like . And he did it against great big men late in his career... no these soft ass pastry chefs like Bosh and Ibaka.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/play...tim_duncan.htm
Noooooooobody wants none of this. That's right!!!
Yeah niggga... keep spamming. I got my foot in your funny looking ass.
Mid won't even tough this thread.
As long as Duncan>Kobe. To be fair though, Jabbar is above Duncan in the all-time list but not much. There's no shame being one-upped by the greatest big man ever. Kobe, on the other hand,
I'm good for tonight, ezau. J.T., gave up the goods. You sleep well, my friend.
Kareem is my personal GOAT since I value bigs over wings. I don't care if Duncan falls short of that comparison.
But Duncan hangs with him pretty good:
What's also admirable about Kareem is that he was a team first player in the later years of his career, just like Duncan.
The 2 smartest bigs ever.
Wilt was a statpadding ape in the weakest big man era in NBA history, so I don't know why you're on his jock.
Kareem used to be my personal GOAT, but then when you really look at Kareem, his legacy really was overrated.
During his absolute prime, he needed another top 10 player of all time in Oscar Robertson to win the championship. He also missed the playoffs twice during the weakest era of NBA basketball in the 70s. Some of that was due to the wonky playoff format, but still, the GOAT shouldn't miss the playoffs, period.
He won most of his rings (5 of 6) during the 80s, again, teaming up with another top 10 player, this time Magic. While he was clearly the best player in the 80 and 82 runs, him missing the last game of the season in 80 didn't stop the Lakers from winning it all, because Magic took over. He got his ass romped by the Celtics in 84, was totally dominated by Malone in 81, was embarrassed by Sampson and Kareem in 86. GOATS do not do that, especially when they were in their semi-prime state. Then 87 and 88 were Magic rings.
Not to mention, Kareem was suspect defensively later in his career.
You put it all together, Duncan has a good argument over Kareem. I am still picking, all time, Kareem over Duncan, but the difference is not as big as people want to believe.
Also, great seeing OP comparing Duncan against the greatest players of all time, and has all but given up comparing Duncan to Kobe. I can see OP comparing Duncan to Naruto if he manages to win one more ring.
That's all that matters in this day and age.
Kareem is arguably the greatest basketball player of all time if you consider high school, college and pro accomplishments.
Kareem is my personal GOAT since I value bigs over wings. I don't care if Duncan falls short of that comparison.
But Duncan hangs with him pretty good:
What's also admirable about Kareem is that he was a team first player in the later years of his career, just like Duncan.
The 2 smartest bigs ever.
Wilt was a statpadding ape in the weakest big man era in NBA history, so I don't know why you're on his jock.
Wilt would dominate this era where you guys consider scrubs like Hibert, Noah, Howard, and the Gasol's good big men. And no, Jim doesnt measure up with Kareem. I noticed you skipped over the regualar season.
This is the worst basketball take I've ever seen. Kareem has three NCAA les and would have four if they didn't red freshman's. Jim played four years and has none. Kareem has 6 MVP's... Jim 2. Kareem played in the era of great big men... Hakeem, Moses, Parish, Ewing, Sampson, Gilmore, Russell, Walton, Reed, Unseld, Thurman, Haywood, Lanier, Hayes, Cowins. Kareem was a giant amongst all of those great bigs. Duncan's only rival in the paint was Shaq and KG, and he couldn't stop Shaq. Oscar was a s of himself when he joined Kareem to win a le. And he's far from a top 10 player. His game was extremely weak compared to todays standards. Kareem led the league in blocks, scoring and rebounding. Duncan has never led the league in anything. You make it seem like winning the majority of his rings during the second half of his career is a slight. If anything its a testament to his longevity and dominance. Stat for stat... Kareem kicks Jim's ass. And he was a better team player.
Read your own post le, it says NBA: Duncan vs. Kareem. Not sure why you are putting in NCAA les.
Because players like Dr. J, Artis Gilmore, and a dude who romps his ass in Moses Malone was playing in the NBA. 70s basketball was easily the weakest basketball era in basketball due to diluted talent and drugs.
Shaq > all of those except Hakeem and Moses, and Kareem was routinely bullied by Hakeem (well in the older years) and Moses.
And Duncan held Shaq to 22.5 ppg in the playoffs, and was 3-2 h2h against him, so not sure how you would say Duncan couldn't stop Shaq.
Too bad for you Oscar only had to play against standards of the 60s/70s.
I guess you just answered your own question, eh?
A player who's game was, in your words, extremely weak, compared to today's standards was dominating the league back in the day. Yet Kareem led the league in all those great things in the same era was a point for Kareem. Contradiction much?
BTW, that s of his former self Oscar still led the league in playoff assists the year he rang, and averaged 18 a game and got 5 rebounds. In the regular season, he got 19/8.2/5.7.
Kareem was known to be aloof, and generally a rotten person and leader. Didn't get along with anyone, and most definitely NOT a better team player. And Stat of stat? Kareem played in an era of much faster pace. Per 100 possessions, Kareem averaged 29.9points, 3.4 blks, 13.1 rebounds and 4.5 assists. Duncan averages 30.4 points, 3.4 blocks, 17 rebounds and 4.7 assists. Tim tops Kareem in 3 out of the 4 big man stats, and ties him for the 4th.
If you had bothered to look you'll notice that Kareem's first 4 season are not included in his PER. Kareem dwarfs Jim in every single category. Like I've said before... Jim has never been dominant in any one category... prove me wrong? Even in win shares... you'll find Kareem at the very top looking way down the list at Jim. There is no comparison here. Also, I find it hilarious you calling Kareem aloof while comparing him to Theodore... lol.
Tim led the league in FGM, FTM, and D rebounds and total rebounds in 02, he led the league in DWS 5 times, D rating 4 times, OWS once, and total WS twice. Sure, Kareem did it more times, but like you said, it was an "extremely weak" era.
And since when was Tim aloof, he's quiet, he's always respectful, I have yet to hear stories of Duncan ignoring little kids' requests for autographs, when it was basically the norm for Kareem. He's such a questionable individual that he couldn't get a coaching gig even though he has been begging for one for years.
Karriem is from the era where signing autographs was embarrassing. Russell refused to do it as well, until they started getting paid to do so. Jim is extremely aloof and smug.
No it wasn't, signing autographs was never embarrassing, you are now just making stuff up per par. And Russell was also well known to be aloof, Kareem was just more so. And nice to know that Kareem played in an extremely weak era where aloofness is the norm.Karriem is from the era where signing autographs was embarrassing. Russell refused to do it as well, until they started getting paid to do so. Jim is extremely aloof and smug.
What exactly did Duncan do? Did he rape unattractive hotel employees? Called out his teammates in taped videos? Refuse to take the blame for failures? What did he do?
Kareem's great. Amazing longevity but he's far from the perfect big man. Great offensive player but he never anchored any great defensive teams. Also not an impressive rebounder(especially in the 80s). Played his best ball in the weakest era in NBA history(70s) and only came away with one le.
I'm not sure you want to play "Who's the better human being" game betweem KAJ and TD. Kareem refused to pay child support for his bas son and practically ignored him. The kid hates him now. all over him on reddit a while ago.Karriem is from the era where signing autographs was embarrassing. Russell refused to do it as well, until they started getting paid to do so. Jim is extremely aloof and smug.
Honestly you can't really count pre-NBA/ABA merger (1976) at full face value, the games were nowhere near as compe ive as they are today and there were very few teams. The value of rings/awards should be halved until it was a full league.
Using that as the basis and the simple ring + FMVP + MVP formula (tie breaker I give to MVP then FMVP as they are the more individualistic metrics):
Jordan: 6 + 6 + 6 = 18
Kareem: 5 + 1/2 + 1 + 1/2 + 2 + 4/2 + = 11
Magic: 5 + 3 + 3 = 11
Duncan: 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
Russell: (11 + 5) / 2 = 8
LeBron: 2 + 2 + 4 = 8
Shaq: 4 + 3 + 1 = 8
Kobe: 5 + 2 + 1 = 8
In that order.
Honestly of the top 4, Duncan had the weakest supporting cast, if he didn't have to play 42.5 minutes a game in 2003 and took out two of the top 8 players on same team, his peak would have lasted longer. 2003 Duncan accomplished more than Jordan did in any single year IMO.
I mean, Kareem missed the finals and Lakers still won a le. This is a far cry from what Duncan has to work with.
Last edited by hitmantb; 06-17-2014 at 04:54 PM.
We really will never know how good Wilt would be. So, imagine a big who was so athletic he could jump from a standstill position, from the foul line, and dunk the ball, while being a top of the line track athlete. This all without any of the modern day training methods. He would be a bad man regardless of the generation.
Not bad comparing Duncan against the greatest basketball player to walk on Earth.
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