Europe: Heatles vs Cavs big 3

[ElNono]

Was checking Heatfan forum, and apparently somebody at ESPN said the new Cavs big 3 are better than the old Heatles...

Dunno who said it (could easily be Windfart or Broussard), but what do you guys think?

IMO Bosh, Wade, Lebron >> Love, Irving, Lebron... I mean, 4 finals in a row, 2 championships... you can argue Wade fell of a cliff last season, but they still made it to the finals.

I can't think these new Cavs are going to be much better offensively than the Heatles, and defensively I think they're worse. Love is a solid rebounder, but he kinda is between average and poor at everything else on D, and Irving has always largely been a traffic cone on that side of the court.

Thoughts?

[Thebesteva]

On paper, and I have to emphasize that this is purely an on paper prediction, but Heatles are much more superior to Kyrie+Love. People forget how powerful Wade was in 2012-13 and how much Lebron could rely on him. Bosh was greatly underappreciated by fans are critics alike. Love and Irving are good too but they are injury prone and defense liabilities. I called it years ago and said if Wade gets injured, Lebron is done on the Heat.

Im saying it now, once Kyrie gets injured Lebron will lose. Dudes vastly overrated

[~O~]

naw.

[hater]

Wade was a champ and carried Bronze in clutch time for the first 2 seasons

the statement is laughable

[AaronY]

Loves defensive struggles are a little overrated and he's the best defensive rebounder in the league plus unlike bosh he's not gonna stop rebounding as soon as he hooks up with lebron. As good as Bosh is in some parts of defense he killed them on the boards and could not grab a defensive to save his life in a ton of their games I watched. Between varejao, love, and lebron they are gonna be an absolutely beastly rebounding team and that should help them on both ends.

[JohnnyMax]

Big 2 vs Big 3

Bosh is a role player. Sure he plays defense but so do Beverley and Ariza.

[TDMVPDPOY]

klove and erving havnt done like lead a team to the playoffs individually...

so i dont know how they are better?

[lefty]

It's gonna be funny to see the Great White Stat Padder's numbers drop next season

[Franklin]

I think at least one of Irving and Love has to start playing solid D if the Cavs want to make some noise in the east. The great Satan Lebron will be Lebron but you can't win if two of your big 3 play such ty level of defense as they currently do.

[jeebus]

Loves defensive struggles are a little overrated and he's the best defensive rebounder in the league plus unlike bosh he's not gonna stop rebounding as soon as he hooks up with lebron. As good as Bosh is in some parts of defense he killed them on the boards and could not grab a defensive to save his life in a ton of their games I watched. Between varejao, love, and lebron they are gonna be an absolutely beastly rebounding team and that should help them on both ends.

Too bad there won't be many chances to get D rebounds with how bad their defense is. They'll probably excel on O rebounds with the way Kyrie chucks.

[Phillip]

Heatles were more talented. Cavs seem to be more balanced and should fit each other better.

Lack of balance severely hurt the Heat against Dallas and San Antonio in the finals. All three of the Heat's big 3 NEEDED the ball in their hands. Bosh found ways to be effective off the ball, but Wade didn't and it really messed things up. If Wade knew how to play even decently off the ball, they would have probably 4-peated.

Irving is best with the ball in his hands, but is a very capable spot up shooter, and doesn't play the same style as Lebron, so they should work better together and not get in each others way the way Bron and Wade did. Plus Lebron has improved quite a bit in his ability to play off the ball himself, however Wade was just so awful that it didn't matter. And Love plays very well off the ball, and can do more of the dirty work that Bosh could not do.

[pookenstein]

Too bad there won't be many chances to get D rebounds with how bad their defense is. They'll probably excel on O rebounds with the way Kyrie chucks.

Honestly, I tried to read your post, but I got distracted.

[DAF86]

Heat big 3 frok the first 2 seasons > Cavs big 3 > Heat big 3 from last 2 seasons

[ElNono]

Bosh pick and roll defense was tops in the league though, and Wade was great getting into passing lanes. It's what made their swarming defense work. It takes a lot of effort to do it consistently, and it's clear they slacked last year, and it cost them dearly. I just don't see Love or Kyle putting that kind of effort on defense. I'm not even sure they have it in them. As jeebs said, rebounding is fine when your defense is actually producing misses. ty teams will put up ty shots, so that's not going to be a problem, but good teams that take good shots ain't going to miss a lot if your defense is mediocre.

It's possible Love and Kyle will suddenly change their game and start giving a on D, but that would certainly be a new development, IMO.

[Franklin]

But wade by himself is a better defender than Irving and Love combined. It's probably true the Cavs big 3 are more balanced than the Heatles but that's only speaking of the offensive end imho. It's defense that wins you the championship. So maybe the Cavs will get out of the east next season but I wouldn't fancy their chance against Spurs, Dallas or OKC.

[ohmwrecker]

It's all about hyping Bron and his current situation. It was never about the Heatles.

[Chinook]

The 2010-2013 Heatles were far superior. Bosh is still better than Love. Wade's fallen off, which is the only reason why it made sense for James to jump. Lebron himself is getting older, and he now has four more long seasons under his belt. Also, Spo's gimmick defense worked to get them two les. I have no idea if Blatt will be able to do something similar.

The only advantage I see about this Cavs team is that they are bringing over the best role-players from the Heat save 2011-2012 Battier. That will help them be better than the 2010 Heat.

[Franklin]

Even if they're better than 2010 cHeat they'd probably still get curbstomped by Spurs or the revamped Mavs in the NBA finals imho.

[baseline bum]

Wade's fallen off, which is the only reason why it made sense for James to jump.

Don't underestimate LeBron's anger at Miller being amnestied. At least it really sounded like that when he was talking about no more paycuts to put money in Arison's pocket (considering he took a pretty large paycut in 2010 specifically to sign Miller). Especially since Miller was huge in saving their season in the 2013 Finals and could have given them a major shot in the arm with Chalmers and Cole completely useless in the 2014 Finals.

[Chinook]

Don't underestimate LeBron's anger at Miller being amnestied. At least it really sounded like that when he was talking about no more paycuts to put money in Arison's pocket (considering he took a pretty large paycut in 2010 specifically to sign Miller). Especially since Miller was huge in saving their season in the 2013 Finals and could have given them a major shot in the arm with Chalmers and Cole completely useless in the 2014 Finals.

No doubt the Heat's frugality peeved him. But had Wade still been in old form, Miami would have remained the better group easily.

[hater]

Has Love played a single playoff minute in his career?

this got

[SpurSwag]

I think Irving and love will be decent individual defenders this season, I just think they have a huge flaw in rim protection. Chris bosh was mobile enough and a decent enough rim protector (didn't block lots of shots but had length and could move his feet) that he could pass as a center, which can't be said of love. This team is relying too heavily on verajao imo, if he goes down there will be a lay up line on the other end and it isn't even a matter of effort from love. He isn't super athletic, he doesn't have overly long arms, and he can't move his feet as well to keep up on switches and to cover pick and rolls.

[jimbo]

Loves defensive struggles are a little overrated and he's the best defensive rebounder in the league plus unlike bosh he's not gonna stop rebounding as soon as he hooks up with lebron. As good as Bosh is in some parts of defense he killed them on the boards and could not grab a defensive to save his life in a ton of their games I watched. Between varejao, love, and lebron they are gonna be an absolutely beastly rebounding team and that should help them on both ends.

As Spurfan knows, he grabs em when it matters

[jimbo]

Don't underestimate LeBron's anger at Miller being amnestied. At least it really sounded like that when he was talking about no more paycuts to put money in Arison's pocket (considering he took a pretty large paycut in 2010 specifically to sign Miller). Especially since Miller was huge in saving their season in the 2013 Finals and could have given them a major shot in the arm with Chalmers and Cole completely useless in the 2014 Finals.

+1

I wouldn't want to play for a jew owner actually being a jew during a dynasty run.

[jimbo]

On paper the 2010 Heat on the 2014 Cavs (Wade was a top 3 player at the time imo), but Spo's ty offensive system kept em from ringing. Blatt will be a whole lot better than 2010 Spo, so I think the Cavs have the advantage there.