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i think Manu is BETTER than Vince, Mr. Khan.
By Mike Khan
The glamour position of the NBA remains just that.
Filled with spectacular athletes capable of taking over games in any number of ways, they can grab the ball off the rim, take the ball the length of the floor, and burn defenders from the perimeter or off the dribble on a whim.
The bigger question is how do you differentiate between the elite shooting guards who play the game today?
Seriously now ... do you really think Dwyane Wade is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant?
Then again, is Kobe Bryant more talented than Tracy McGrady?
And while we're at it, is any one of the aforementioned trio even close to being the same kind of consistent leader that Ray Allen was for the Seattle SuperSonics last season?
Not to be forgotten is the biggest winner of the entire group — Manu Ginobili, who in the last four seasons has won two NBA les, an Olympic gold medal and a European le.
The key to ranking extraordinarily talented players such as these is the criteria used for the ranking. If we went on pure talent, Vince Carter would be considered for first. So would Steve Francis. And there is always the sleeper of the bunch who everybody fell in love with over the past six months — Joe Johnson.
Actually, Johnson is loaded with tangible skills, but we won't find out what kind of leadership qualities he has until we see how he performs with his new team in Atlanta.
Bryant's leadership qualities have been in question since the team completely unraveled at the end of the 2004 NBA Finals against the Pistons and there was unrest last season.
And that's not to mention that both McGrady and Carter admittedly quit on their previous teams, setting the stage for trades last season.
That leaves us with the wonderfully talented and focused qualities that both Wade and Allen bring to the floor to help their teammates succeed. Not only did that last throughout the regular season, but well into the postseason. Wade led the Miami Heat to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals, and Allen carried the underdog and injured Sonics to Game 6 of the West semifinals against the San Antonio Spurs.
So how do we differentiate between the two? Well, Wade just does more. He isn't the special perimeter shooter that Allen is, but Wade does everything else better ... from ballhandling, to taking players off the dribble, to setting up his teammates, and defending.
Consequently, we believe not only is Wade the best shooting guard in the league entering this season, but along with a healthy Shaquille O'Neal and other additions to the team, will lead the Heat to their first NBA le in 2006.
And without further adieu, here are our top 10 shooting guards for the 2005-06 season, and a few more:
1. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
Ht./Wt. 6-4, 210
Numbers: 24.1 pts., 5.2 reb., 6.8 ast.
Wade became the "It Player" during last year's playoffs. Strong, smooth and extraordinarily gifted, his best quality might just be his humility. And when you consider that he is just entering his third season ... it just puts everything in perspective. The fifth player taken in the special 2003 draft — after LeBron James, Darko Milicic, Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh — may indeed end up being the best of all.
2. Ray Allen, Seattle SuperSonics
Ht./Wt. 6-5, 205
Numbers: 23.9 pts., 4.4 reb., 3.7 ast.
Just when everybody thought the Sonics were headed to the cellar for good and Allen along with them, he gathered the troops and not only explained, but showed them how to win. He became an upper-crust superstar for good during the playoffs with a slew of extra-terrestrial performances against the Kings and Spurs that exceeded expectations even for Allen.
3. Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers
Kobe Bryant is the most complete talent at the SG position. But his at ude knocks him down to No. 3 on our list. (Rocky Widner / Getty Images)
Ht./Wt. 6-6, 220
Numbers: 27.6 pts., 5.9 reb., 6.0 ast.
He's still the best package of talent, with the size, strength, quickness, defense and offensive skills. But there is so much resentment and disdain for his selfishness that he has to overcome that it tends to supersede his wondrous gifts. And it is amazingly ironic that Phil Jackson would return to coach after a one-year hiatus to help him prove otherwise.
4. Tracy McGrady, Houston Rockets
Ht./Wt. 6-8, 210
Numbers: 25.7 pts., 6.2 reb., 5.7 ast.
T-Mac appeared to do everything humanly possible in the first round of last year's playoffs against Dallas, and still couldn't prevent the Rockets from blowing a 2-0 lead coming home. It's too easy to point the finger at the irrefutable fact that he has never gotten out of the first round, but it's also why he's ranked no better than fourth.
5. Vince Carter, New Jersey Nets
Ht./Wt. 6-6, 220
Numbers: 24.5 pts., 5.2 reb., 4.2 ast.
There is still Vinsanity to reckon with, but the difference is in the definition. No longer is his talent what keeps fans in awe, but the contradiction of his great play to his frequent disappearing acts. He was outstanding down the stretch last season to get the Nets into the playoffs. Now in Year Two we'll find out how deep his commitment is. Plenty of people still need to be convinced.
6. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio Spurs
Ht./Wt. 6-6, 210
Numbers: 16.0 pts., 4.4 reb., 3.9 ast.
Many insiders watching the seven-game win over the Pistons believed it was Ginobili, not Tim Duncan, who should have been the MVP of the finals, and that it was backlash to commissioner David Stern's globalization theme that skewed voting from the writers. Whatever the case, Ginobili now is a legitimate All-Star in every phase of the game and getting better, regardless of whether he was raised in Argentina or Brooklyn.
7. Steve Francis, Orlando Magic
Ht./Wt. 6-3, 205
Numbers: 21.3 pts., 5.8 reb., 7.0 ast.
Stevie Franchise had hoped for bigger and better things with the Magic last season, only to suffer another disappointing trip into the lottery. He is not a point guard, nor a shooting guard. He is a guard, with exceptional talent, who just dribbles way, way, too much. Somebody else will play point, so he is a two, and we'll see if new coach Brian Hill can help him gain some consistency.
8. Michael Redd, Milwaukee Bucks
Ht./Wt. 6-6, 215
Numbers: 23.0 pts., 4.2 reb., 2.3 ast.
He has moved into the "elite player" category contract-wise and without question shooting-wise. But can he rise to the level of a player who helps his team win? The Bucks were a major disappointment last season and have added two key players in Andrew Bogut and Bobby Simmons, and new coach Terry Stotts. Now Redd has to prove he deserves the money and plaudits by leading them to the playoffs.
9. Richard Hamilton, Detroit Pistons
Ht./Wt. 6-7, 195
Numbers: 18.7 pts., 3.9 reb., 4.9 ast.
Rip's all-around improvement defensively and passing the ball have been vastly overlooked in the wake of the Pistons' back-to-back Eastern Conference les. He remains one of the top two or three mid-range shooters in the game and is getting better all the time at setting up his teammates as well. Just because he's skinny, doesn't mean he can't play. He's potentially Reggie Miller with less range.
10. Joe Johnson, Atlanta Hawks
Ht./Wt. 6-7, 230
Numbers: 17.1 pts., 5.1 reb., 3.5 ast.
It's hard to figure what will happen to this marvelously talented 24-year-old now that he's going to the Hawks. A natural shooting guard, maybe he becomes a point guard, maybe a small forward. Whatever the case, he's the only other player who has the complete game on both ends of the floor and shooting touch to rival Bryant. The difference is, he may be too nice of a guy.
Also under consideration: Larry Hughes, Cleveland Cavaliers; Michael Finley, free agent; Jason Richardson, Golden State Warriors; Jalen Rose, Toronto Raptors; Cuttino Mobley, Los Angeles Clippers; Stephen Jackson, Indiana Pacers.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/4806088
i think Manu is BETTER than Vince, Mr. Khan.
Ray over Kobe? Vince over Manu??
Which is exactly what they should have done to Vince Carter for being a quitter, I can't believe he's ranked higher than one of the most winningest players in the L...Kobe Bryant is the most complete talent at the SG position. But his at ude knocks him down to No. 3 on our list. (Rocky Widner / Getty Images)
we are on the same page here....Kobe shld be on #2, if not on top. I think he's better than Wade, despite Wade's success last season.Ray over Kobe? Vince over Manu??
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JJ on that list? hahah overrated player, he will be expose.
...and why is Rip & Jefferson not even considered? I think if JJ is on that list these two are way better because they were sometime integral part of a Final/championship teams.
P.S. I'd rather have Gordon over JJ.
I agree with where Manu is listed, he hasn't had to play a single season without a dominating big man. Give any of the 5 ahead of Manu Timmy, and they all would have won rings this year.
My list would be
1. Kobe (don't really like him, would not want him as spur but he is best)
2. McGrady (Because of the last playoffs he is my new favorite non spur)
3. R. Allen (Whiny little but seems to never miss except w/BOWEN)
4. D Wade (I knew he would be good in Nba but I had no idea this good.
5. Ginobili (Not always consistant in stats but he gives it his all every game)
6. Paul Pierce (Can't believe boston is thinking of trading this guy)
7. V. Carter (when he feels like it, and another whiner)
8. R. Hamilton (awesome shooter quick release, sneaky bas )
9. M. Redd (another great shooter)
10. Larry Hughes (as long he is healthy.)
Even though I've never liked Kobe, people can't overlook him as the best SG in the league. My list would be;
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Tracy McGrady
4. Vince Carter
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Ray Allen
7. Rip Hamilton
8. Michael Redd
9. Joe Johnson
10. Jason Richardson
And Paul Pierce is a SF just as Peja Stojakovic is a SF and Steve Francis is a PG.
Dwayne Wade is not better than Kobe.....yet, but he will be.
If Shaq was still a Laker, noone would have put Wade up there. Why is everyone so hyped up about him!? Yes, he's damn good maybe top 3 but not #1
He doesn't do anything extraordinary that Kobe, Tmac don't do. He's a mediocre shooter. And he can't shoot 3s!
Last edited by nkdlunch; 08-26-2005 at 09:44 AM.
Kobe's still on top...and this year will prove it. All of those players mentioned are good...but none can achieve and surpass the talent of Kobe.
Kobe has to be listed at number because of the three rings. Yes, he had Shaq, but Kobe was as much a part of that team that won three as Shaq. Wade is showing that may surpass Kobe, but are we talking one on one or team player. Don't forget how Ginobili would take over games when either Duncan was out or when the team was playing like crap. There were times when Ginobili carried the team on his back. If the Spurs didn't call 4-Down so much, and actually called more plays for Ginobili, then he would be ranked higher. He knows how to take games over.
Kobe will finish in the top 3 in MVP voting next year. Thats a stone cold lock.
What's your list? Shaq,Tim, AI, Amare, Wade (possibly), Kobe, KG ?? Is Kobe a lock for top 3 with this list??
My Pick for MVP next season...... Vince Carter !! Don't really like him, but it's just a feeling.
He was putting up massive numbers once he got to NJ.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, Vince Carter, MVP (Most Valuable P _ _ S Y).
wow. thatin NZ must be strong
Manu is better than Vince... kobe is better than wade... and lebron should be somewhere on that list
Kobe's top 3 all-time SG...so who gives a . If he was to retire, that's were they would place him. Right behind Jordan.
Kobe's stats since rookie
1996-97 LAL 15.5 .417 .375 .819 0.7 1.2 1.9 1.3 0.7 0.3 1.6 0.8 1.4 7.6
1997-98 LAL 26.0 .428 .341 .794 1.0 2.1 3.1 2.5 0.9 0.5 2.0 1.3 2.3 15.4
1998-99 LAL 37.9 .465 .267 .839 1.1 4.2 5.3 3.8 1.4 1.0 3.1 1.2 3.1 19.9
1999-00 LAL 38.2 .468 .319 .821 1.6 4.7 6.3 4.9 1.6 0.9 2.8 1.8 3.3 22.5
Wade stats
2003-04 MIA 34.8 .465 .302 .747 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 1.4 0.6 3.2 1.4 2.3 16.2
2004-05 MIA 38.6 .478 .289 .762 1.4 3.7 5.2 6.8 1.6 1.1 4.2 1.6 3.0 24.1
Seems pretty much the same to me...the main difference must be in the at ud of each one. How was kobe's at ude when rookie??
I don't like reading any list that has Ray Allen near the top
How the could Ray Allen be #2??? There's no way he's better than both Kobe and T-Mac.
Steve Francis a top 10 shooting guard? Shouldn't he be placed #50 in the point guard list?
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