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How can anyone be up this early on a Saturday? Darn dog.
Would the Spurs be a better team or worse team with Hamilton and Billups instead of Parker and Manu?
What about the Pistons with Manu and Parker? (I'll answer this part later, have to take the car in for repairs
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I know it's a pointless thread to some but I'm interested in the thoughts of the many who post here with high basketball IQ's.
How can anyone be up this early on a Saturday? Darn dog.
worse, Rip isn't in Manu's league when it comes to creating shots.
What about those of us that have low Bball IQ?
Last edited by smeagol; 09-10-2005 at 07:54 AM.
This season, probably worse for the pistons seeing as neither Manu nor Tony are equal individual defenders and detroits d without brown will be far more about individual defense. (I think both Tony and Manu are very good defenders though) Billups isnt quick enough to set up our offense, and rip needs plays run for him, he can't create off his own dribble with the natural rhythm of the game.
Sorry to depress you smeagol it wasn't meant to offendWhat about those of us that havo low Bball IQ?
Manu has an edge over Rip because of his creativity. There aren't many that can drive to the hole with reckless abandon the way he does and still avoid the charging fouls and hang on to the ball. One of the best at that was Nate (tiny) Archibald. So if we had Manu instead of Rip we would be a slightly better team.
Parker is a notch below Billups, at times not being assertive or aggressive enough which may have something to do with size and strength. If we had Parker instead of Billups we probably wouldn't have made it to the Finals the last 2 years.
Overall, and with bias, we are a better team with Rip and Billups than we would be with Manu and Parker.
Actually Billips would be on Spurs because of what?
Because OF the draft lotto.... Tim 1 .. Billups 2...
If we had number 2 that year from the lotto.. we would of gotten Billups and Celtics would of got Duncan.
Nostalgia. E-mail I sent to PR director Tom James on June 25. [email protected] Comments welcome.
Tom, If you haven't had a chance to send the piece to Bruce Bowen, could you please send him this version. And now that I think of it, could you please send it to the rest of the team, and anyone else you deem fit -- from Buford to Avery. I'm sure they'll all agree that Bruce deserves it. And I'm sure no one else took the time (six hours) to dramatize and chronicle his greatness in such detail. Thanks.
Jack
Spurs fans,
While all the credit is being handed out, I’d like to fill a bit of a vacuum.
There are six minutes left in the game. Tim has only one dunk and two turnovers in the quarter. We lead by three, 64-61, and neither team has scored for two minutes. I’m thinking, “We’ll be fine if we can just get the lead to six, because then they’ll probably need four possessions to beat us -- since they’ve made only one three-point shot all game.” (I later learned, when I spoke to David Robinson briefly on the phone after the game, that he’d also thought six was the key number.) “Moreover, Rasheed Wallace is the only Piston who’s scored in the period.”
Then comes the shot we’ve been waiting for. Is it Tim or Manu or Rob or Tony? No, it’s Bruce Bowen -- who hasn’t taken a single shot in the half. He hits a 3 -- and we have that six-point breathing room.
But it’s still not over. Detroit’s greatest offensive threat, Chauncey Billups, finally comes to life -- and now Detroit has two scorers. Brent Barry comes in for Bruce, immediately turns the ball over, and the lead is down to four. Bruce comes back in.
Tim is fouled with 1:02 left. If he makes both foul shots -- and we “kill clock” for two 24-second possessions -- they’ll need three baskets to send the game into overtime. But he only makes one, so they can send the game into overtime with a 3 and a 2.
Larry Brown calls time out. No coach in the league is better at running a play after a time out than he is. (After our last time out, they scored.)
Then comes the signature play of the game -- the one that best exemplifies what makes the Spurs great. Billups goes up for a 3-pointer. If he makes it, it’s a two-point game -- and they’re making that inevitable run the six-point lead was designed to protect us against.
Everyone knows you never foul a jump-shooter -- especially when he’s taking a 3; especially when the shot is being taken by a guy who gets every call; especially when you’re not known for being a shot-blocker; especially when he’s a near lock to make all three foul shots; especially when the refs know they won’t be accused of “keeping the game close” if they blow the whistle; especially when you’re playing with five fouls; especially when you’re not a super-star like Michael Jordan who gets all the calls himself.
Unless you’re Bruce Bowen -- who’s smart enough to know that only a perfect block will do. But he makes the play -- and recovers the ball.
Technically, Detroit is still in it. There’s enough time left that they don’t have to start deliberately fouling. But Bruce’s block crushed their spirit so badly that Manu can not only run 17 seconds off the clock, but he can split their defense for a game-clinching lay-up.
But that’s Bruce Bowen for you. Some players, e.g. Tayshaun Prince, are so “underrated” they become overrated. But even though Bruce is always described as underrated --and despite his getting the second most votes for Defensive Player of the Year -- he’s still underrated. And he never complains about it. Probably because he never thinks about it.
In this year’s playoffs he shut down Carmelo Anthony, Ray Allen, Shawn Marion, Rip Hamilton, and then, when it became necessary, Chauncey Billups. All this at 200 pounds -- and 34 years of age.
Last year, when Ray Allen, a personal favorite of mine, accused him of being a dirty ballplayer, I thought there must be some truth to this accusation (especially since they were close friends) -- so I started watching Bruce very carefully. The charge was completely untrue, and I no longer have any respect for Ray Allen as a person.
I’ve never seen Bruce commit a hard foul -- or a foul intended to “send a message”. I’ve never seen him commit a flagrant foul. If anything, the refs are unfairly tough on him.
He’s not a perfect coach’s dream. I’ve seen him throw a few lazy passes. But I’ve never seen him make a dumb play. So I’m willing to forgive all his offensive weaknesses -- including his poor foul shooting (which is still better than Tony Parker’s, and is basically irrelevant, since he rarely shoots any).
He plays totally within himself. He almost never turns the ball over. And he never takes a possession off.
I told David Robinson that I might have given Bruce my vote for MVP. He understood that I might have been doing so as a symbolic act, but he still said, “You’ve got a good point there.”
Billups is light years more than Parker will ever be but Ginobili dwarfs Hamilton so it's pretty much a wash. Slight edge to the Spurs IMO.
Funny how every player has strengths and weaknesses. I think the Spurs could still win with Rip and Billups. I don't think Detroit would be as strong because of Parker's limitations on perimeter shooting and assists.
Parker would not do well in with the Pistons because they don't have many 3 point shooters there. Parker's game is basically driving to the hole and taking the shot himself or taking it to the hole, having the defense collapse on him and shooting the ball out to one of the perimeter players on the team. And since the Pistons lack 3 pt shooters....the latter aspect of Parker's game won't be much of a help to them.
Billups on the Spurs? I'd be stupid to say Spurs wouldn't be a great team. The only aspect I'd see them having a downfall would be against fast paced teams such as the Suns, Nuggets, etc. who have a running game. Spurs wouldn't have the advantage of having a fast Parker speed up their offense and run the floor. Also, I'm not so sure how Billups and Manu would complement eachother in the backcourt....not like Manu and Parker do. Either way, I highly doubt that if the Spurs had the chance, they wouldn't do a Parker for Billups trade.
Manu and RIP cancel eachother out IMO. Each has an aspect of the game that the other lacks. To discount Rip's game in light of Manu's is stupid. I think both players are pretty equal talent-wise...they just play a different style. Keep in mind, Rip didn't look so great in the Finals because he had Bruce Bowen guarding him.......while Manu had Tayshaun Prince (). Anyways, if we swapped Manu and Rip....I think the Pistons and Spurs would still be the same 50+ win team....
Tough call. I feel that Billups is better than Parker, Manu is better than Rip. I love how he can get his own shot. How about Detroit trades Hamilton and Delfino for Manu? I doubt SA would do it, but a Billups/Ginobili backcourt would be incredible. Both guys can do it all.
Either way Detroit and SA would be some bad mofo teams.
If you're talking about "now", then it's probably a wash, but...
Parker @23 >> Chauncy @23
Until LB got to DET, Chauncey was pretty much considered a bust high draft pick, and a journeyman PG.
I think Billups is offensively more capable than Parker, though Parker had a great defensive game 7 against him. Parker is obviously faster and better at getting to the hoop, but Billups is stronger and better at getting his midrange shot off. Overall, Billups is less easily neutralized because he has a MUCH better midrange game, thus he can drive, create space and then shoot an open shot, and team defense can't really stop that very easily. Whereas, Parker can be "stopped" if a good team defense shuts down open lanes and his outside shot is not hitting. If a team is long and can go from packing it in to getting back on 3 pt shooters, Parker's impact is really lessened, where Billups is big enough to usually get his shot off midrange against pg defenders, and his playmaking is clearly better. Parker is clearly better in the open court. Today Billups is a level above Parker on offense; he is the first option and even though teams focus on stopping him, he still manages to shoot well, whereas when teams have dedicated themselves to stopping parker, they have seen success. Defensively, on average Billups is better. Playmaking also goes to Billups. Billups is a bit more clutch than tony as well, IMO.
Hamilton is also a great midrange shooter who thrives when the offense helps him get open. He is not a great slasher or creater off the dribble but can draw fouls when movement has given him space in the midrange of the court. He is an average defender and an average 3pt threat. Manu is a good 3pt shooter, a great clutch shooter, creates and slashes with the best of them. He has no holes in his game, and is a good attacking defender. He gambles on defense and plays the passing lanes better than man-to-man, but he has learned to be conservative as well. I think Manu gets a bigger edge on defense, a considerable edge in clutchness, and a smaller edge offensively in general.
As far as if we traded starting backcourts, where would either team be, I would say pretty close to how they are now. Both teams would adjust to the strengths of their players, I think, and would benefit from the mix that the other players bring to the game. I think both backcourts are top notch, and both Manu and Billups have shown they can raise their games to another level in the playoffs, so it could go either way.
parker is 23... by the time he is 26-27, he will be better than billups in pretty much every aspect. Remember always the first two games against the Lakers in 04 ... thats how he could be playing every night if he wanted to.
One of the cases where both teams would be worse off.
The Spurs, without the creativity of Manu and Parker, will have to revert back to the throw the ball to Duncan and stand around offense. Billups is great at running a discinplined offense, but he doesn't create to the level of Manu. Spurs also is an inside out offenese, while Detroit is the other way around. Rip primarily gets his shots from getting through stacks of screens, the Spurs offense is not built on that. In other words, the Spurs offense will suffer if Billups and Hamilton were Spurs.
For Detroit, Parker does not have the consistency of a Billups on the perimeter, and is yet on a level where he can carry a team offensively. Manu is great at creating shots, but he hasn't yet mastered the art of using his teammates to set up his own shots, and this is what Detroit does in their offense.
On defense, Billups dwarfs Parker, while Manu beats Rip.
In either case, if there was a swap, both teams would have to change their offense dramatically to take advantage of the players skills. As for defense, the Spurs will definitely improve if both players buy into the system (could you imagine Billups AND Bowen locking down the whole perimeter of the opposing team?) while Detroit will suffer quite a bit.
I REMEMBER THOSE GAMES!
WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM???!!!
Worse.
Simply look at the inability of the Pistons backcourt to get their big men open shots in the Finals as evidence.
The Spurs as a team feast off of Timmy. As good as Manu and TP are it is TD that sets everyone up. All the people that were upset that Tim got the Finals MVP need to watch the entire 4th quarter of game 7 again so they can see the straw that stirs the drink (TD) getting his teamates wide open shots off of doubleteam kickouts.
Billups and Hamilton would be far to busy looking for their own shots to make others around them better imho.
My thoughts exactly. Without that superstar in the middle, they are too busy jacking up shots and wanting plays run for them. If there was a switch where say, TD was on Billups, Billups never gave the ball to sheed where he could score. He always tried to drive on the big man. It worked its share of the time, but throughout the series Rasheed never really got involved because of stuff like this... one of the biggest reasons they lost. Remember Rasheed's 9 point 4th quarter of Game 7? He was effortlessly hitting shots - thats how it could have been throughout the series.
How about we morph them into a Billups and Manu backcourt and dominate the universe? That sounds better to me.
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WELLBUTRIN SETTLEMENT NEWS
Last edited by FreshPrince22; 09-12-2011 at 02:04 PM.
It's not Chauncey's fault. Sheed is alergic to the post. Even if Chauncey sets him up in the post perfectly, he still loves to pass out because he's so "unselfish". Which pisses me off. Dumars called him out during the Finals and the next game he still did the same BS where he plays like an MVP for the first 3 minutes then disappears for 40 minutes.
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PNAYPRINCESS18
Last edited by FreshPrince22; 09-12-2011 at 02:04 PM.
That's actually a great point. If Billups had managed to get Sheed and Prince involved more in the offense of the series........I think the Pistons could have stolen another game or 2 from us. While Billups had great stats during the Finals...and he defended Parker well, I don't think he ran their offense as well as he could have. All you saw was him and Rip taking the majority of the shots and not really trying to involve the other players.
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