Old Habits Die Hard For White House

[Nbadan]

By Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 14, 2005; Page A07

UNITED NATIONS, Sept. 13 -- With an hour-long slide show that blends satellite imagery with disquieting assumptions about Iran's nuclear energy program, Bush administration officials have been trying to convince allies that Tehran is on a fast track toward nuclear weapons.

The PowerPoint briefing, led "A History of Concealment and Deception," has been presented to diplomats from more than a dozen countries. Several diplomats said the presentation, intended to win allies for increasing pressure on the Iranian government, dismisses ambiguities in the evidence about Iran's intentions and omits alternative explanations under debate among intelligence analysts.

The presenters argue that the evidence leads solidly to a conclusion that Iran's nuclear program is aimed at producing weapons, according to diplomats who have attended the briefings and U.S. officials who helped to assemble the slide show. But even U.S. intelligence estimates acknowledge that other possibilities are plausible, though unverified.

The problem, acknowledged one U.S. official, is that the evidence is not definitive. Briefers "say you can't draw any other conclusion, and of course you can draw other conclusions," said the official, who would discuss the closed-door sessions only on condition of anonymity.

The briefings were conducted in Vienna over the past month in advance of a gathering of world leaders this week at the United Nations. President Bush, who is to address the annual General Assembly gathering Wednesday, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, plan to use the meeting to press for agreement to threaten international sanctions against Iran.

The president's direct involvement marks an escalation of a two-year effort to bring Iran before the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose sanctions, unless Tehran gives up technology capable of enriching uranium for a bomb. U.S. officials have acknowledged that it has been an uphill campaign, with opposition from key allies who fear a prelude to a military campaign.

Several diplomats said the slide show reminded them of the flawed presentation on Iraq's weapons programs made by then-secretary of state Colin L. Powell to the U.N. Security Council in February 2003. "I don't think they'll lose any support, but it isn't going to win anyone either," said one European diplomat who attended the recent briefing and whose country backs the U.S. position on Iran.

Washington Post

Now I know where right-wing radio gets its daily talking points. Someone should have told the WH that propaganda only works when the people don't know any better. Maybe the WH can mail the video to Republican campaign contibutors.

[RandomGuy]

By Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 14, 2005; Page A07
Washington Post

Now I know where right-wing radio gets its daily talking points. Someone should have told the WH that propaganda only works when the people don't know any better. Maybe the WH can mail the video to Republican campaign contibutors.

This points out something that Republicans will NEVER admit to:

GW's recklessness has done more damage to the US than 9-11 did.

We used to have some moral authority when talking to 3rd world dictators about human rights abuses.BAM!! Abu Gharaib

We used to have some credibility when it came to convincing people that what we were doing had some basis in fact. BAM!!! WMD? What WMD?

We used to be able to lead people by dint of our moral authority, competance, and teamwork.BAM!!! We don't need yer stinkin' help, we can nationbuild all by ourselves. Ooops, maybe not.

We used to be able to use our moral authority when it came to convincing other nations to live up to their treaty obligations. BAM!! Those treaties invonvienced us anyway, so we ignored them, but you need to live up to YOUR treaties pal!!

[boutons]

Having ignored and alienated European countries, mostly allies and friendly, over Iraq, Rummy now goes begging NATO to help fight in Afghanistan as the yet-again undermanned US forces see increased/renewed fighting from Taliban/jihadi. Had the US not gone into Iraq, the US military would be able to Afghanistan militarily alone, while allowing the NATO forces their help out non-militarily, as is the case now.

Iraq is a huge crime and disaster that will destructively ripple around the planet (includes USA) for years and years.

=======================================

washingtonpost.com

NATO Allies Reject Afghanistan Suggestion

By PAUL AMES
The Associated Press

Wednesday, September 14, 2005; 5:36 PM

BERLIN -- European allies rejected a U.S. suggestion Wednesday that NATO take on counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan.

Germany, France and Spain made clear they would not allow the 11,000 NATO peacekeepers in the Central Asian nation to become embroiled in the military effort to quell a Taliban-led insurgency.

They also opposed talk of merging the NATO mission with a U.S.-led coalition force, although NATO officials said they expected agreement on a proposal to bring the two missions under a single commander.

The suggestion for a combat role for NATO troops came from Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who told the U.S. allies that Washington would maintain a strong military presence in Afghanistan despite pressure to free up forces for combat in Iraq.

"U.S. forces will of course continue to play a strong role," he said after a meeting of NATO defense ministers.

Rumsfeld said he was satisfied with plans by NATO allies to expand the Afghan peacekeeping mission next year with more European and Canadian troops.

He spoke amid speculation about U.S. plans to cut its 18,000-soldier contingent in Afghanistan as the NATO force expands. The New York Times and Washington Post reported the Bush administration was considering a reduction of as much as 20 percent by early 2006.

Rumsfeld declined to discuss specifics. "If and when there's any decision to decrease forces, I will announce it," he said.

Rumsfeld suggested Tuesday that NATO could eventually take over combat operations against Afghan insurgents, but he acknowledged that would be a difficult step and did not offer any timetable.

Along with other nations, Germany and France have sent combat troops to serve with the U.S.-led coalition force since Afghanistan's Taliban regime was toppled after the Sept. 11 terror attacks. But they do not want the separate NATO force involved in that mission, fearing it would undermine peacekeeping and make its soldiers more likely to face attack.

"I would not like to expose our soldiers to an additional risk by joining these two mandates together," German Defense Minister Peter Struck said in a radio interview.

The issue has been sensitive in Germany, where the Social Democratic government faces parliamentary elections Sunday.

Spain's Socialist government, which withdrew troops from Iraq after winning elections last year, also cautioned against linking NATO peacekeepers with the combat operation.

"They should coordinate their forces, but I'm not in favor of fusing the two missions," Defense Minister Jose Bono said.

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said the allies were close to agreement on putting the two forces under a single NATO commander.

"There is a shared view among NATO defense ministers that we need a greater synergy between the two missions," de Hoop Scheffer told reporters.

Under NATO's planned expansion in Afghanistan next year, the alliance will take over peacekeeping in the southern sector, with Britain taking a lead role, backed by Canada and the Netherlands.

U.S. troops will retain responsibility for eastern Afghanistan _ considered the most dangerous region _ under NATO command. Germany will take a lead role in the north and Italy in the west.

© 2005 The Associated Press

[gtownspur]

This points out something that Republicans will NEVER admit to:

GW's recklessness has done more damage to the US than 9-11 did.

We used to have some moral authority when talking to 3rd world dictators about human rights abuses.BAM!! Abu Gharaib

We used to have some credibility when it came to convincing people that what we were doing had some basis in fact. BAM!!! WMD? What WMD?



We used to be able to lead people by dint of our moral authority, competance, and teamwork.BAM!!! We don't need yer stinkin' help, we can nationbuild all by ourselves. Ooops, maybe not.

We used to be able to use our moral authority when it came to convincing other nations to live up to their treaty obligations. BAM!! Those treaties invonvienced us anyway, so we ignored them, but you need to live up to YOUR treaties pal!!

HERE ARE THE FACTS COMMON DUNCE!!
1. Abu Gharaib!! Thats stupid!. Your a complete ing moron if your comparing un proven allegations of torturing terrorist to save american lives to 3rd world dictators murdering people and their family based on race, gender and politics and religions.

2.WMD.. okay so its like this. Even The clinton admin up till its end proffessed there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So then one day we invade iraq and we find them not there. Idiots and leftist like you immediately thought "OMG!! bush lied!! nany nanny poo poo!!, instead of realizing that they could be missing!! You realize that asshole! They may have never existed or even worse.. They could be missing!!

3. Only France and Germany backed off the invasion. 20 other democracies decided to go with us. Whats your point??.. Oh and guess what France now wants to help in the rebuilding effort, but only when it suits them $$$$$.


4. ANd about treaties. Um! I suggest you reasearch more about us living up to our standards compared to the incompetent U.N.

[whottt]

Yeah...that's pretty funny people saying the US has lost moral authority...

Any of you libs been paying attention to the UN lately? OR did you lose your hunger for discussing it after their asses got nailed to the wall over corruption in the OFF program?

[whottt]

By the way...I wish the US would just get it over with and leave the UN and kick them out on their asses...

A place like Syria is more representative of what the UN stands for these days.

These ers are absolutely useless and the only purpose they serve nowdays is to legitimize corrupt regimes...

They don't enforce their own resolutions.
They are incapable of serving as peacekeeping force in a meaningful way.
The Human Rights Council is a joke.

[jochhejaam]

The United Nations has appointed Cuba and China to it's human rights panel an the U.S. has lost it's moral authority? The U.N. is anti-U.S. and should not continue to prop it up by providing them with 23% of their budget. That's b.s.

[smeagol]

Sure whottt, joch and gtownspur, you are right. When it comes to intervening in World affairs, the US should do everything by themselves. the rest of the World! They are morons anyway.

The UN: corrupt bas s

France: morons

Germany: idiots

The Third World: a hole populated by ignorant s that hate the US.

Middle East: We should bomb the out of them.

The US: Greatest country on Earth. Does no wrong.

[mookie2001]

^smeagol sadly thats how it is and why America isnt well liked anymore

and gtown how were the allegations unproven?

[Useruser666]

Sure whottt, joch and gtownspur, you are right. When it comes to intervening in World affairs, the US should do everything by themselves. the rest of the World! They are morons anyway.

The UN: corrupt bas s

France: morons

Germany: idiots

The Third World: a hole populated by ignorant s that hate the US.

Middle East: We should bomb the out of them.

The US: Greatest country on Earth. Does no wrong.

I think the US ranks pretty high on helping out countries in need. And as far as human rights go, you can't say the US is not at the fore·front of improving ourselves as well as pushing others to do so. I think the other at udes are not always the norm here. I'd say maybe your views are biased of the US as much as the views of the US are of other countries.

[smeagol]

I think the US ranks pretty high on helping out countries in need. And as far as human rights go, you can't say the US is not at the fore•front of improving ourselves as well as pushing others to do so. I think the other at udes are not always the norm here. I'd say maybe your views are biased of the US as much as the views of the US are of other countries.

My views on the US are generally positive.

My post was in response to whottt, DOS, gtownspur and others, whose at ude is usually “ the rest of the World, we are always right, they are always wrong”.

I’m not saying this is the at ude of the majority of Americans. , I don’t even think this is the at ude of most of the posters on this board. But unfortunately, because of these at udes, which capture the attention of the international media, plus some of the things Bush has done in these last four years, that’s the perception the rest of the World has of the US.

I started some time ago a thread asking the American posters why they thought the rest of the world hated them. I probably should not have used the word “hate”, but in any case, the substance of the question I asked was legitimate.

I have yet to read from these posters that anything America does is not the best thing to do: to them, every single war the US has fought from Korea to Iraq, is fully justified. To them, every single intervention in a foreign country, is justified. To them, not trying to agree with the rest of the world on issues such as global warming and agricultural subsidies is OK, because, who the needs those idiots anyway?

And the UN, who needs those bozos? We are the US, we don’t need a bunch of lesser countries telling us what we can and cannot do.

Again, I’m representing what some posters believe. I’m not even saying this is the way I believe the US government conducts itself. And if you ask some American posters, you’ll see they have the same view I have.

[whottt]

Sure whottt, joch and gtownspur, you are right. When it comes to intervening in World affairs, the US should do everything by themselves. the rest of the World! They are morons anyway.

The UN isn't the world...

I think those that hate my country and want it destroyed or weakened are most definitely morons of the highest degree...they are so incredibly ing stupid that words cannot describe.

Now Anti-americans like youself may be ready to bust a nut for the day when we no longer defend ourselves but you can go to if you think I will not defend myself against obvious enemies.


So pretty much, the anti-Americans.. them....

The UN: corrupt bas s

Yeap. They most definitely are...do you even look into things before you speak? Go look at what the UN is up to....

More importantly...

France: morons

Yeap...

Germany: idiots

Yeap...

What's the matter smeagol...upset that we helped stop the holocaust...sorry buddy. Sucks to be you...take the fall of Nazism like man...you Nazis lost. Don't be a sore loser.

The Third World: a hole populated by ignorant s that hate the US.

Coming from the man who started the "why does the rest of the world hate the US".

Middle East: We should bomb the out of them.

IF they are going to do it to us...you bet.

The US: Greatest country on Earth. Does no wrong.

The World...the beacon of enlightenment held back only by the US. Major ing rolleyes.


It's real simple...if you don't like my country...I don't like you. If you want to destroy or weaken my country...I would rather see you destroyed first.

In any case....

It's not so much that my country is blameless...it's that it's haters to such a good job of hating it that I don't have to point out it's faults.

I just take a good long look at the source of the criticism...



The UN is a corrupt hole by the way....it's comprised of silver spoon aristocratic diplomats that are totally and completely selling out the purpose for which it was formed...


IOW...it is now lead by the same mentality that lead to the third world becoming a hole in the first place.


And why don't you tell me something the UN actually has done Smeagol....that it did without the US having to do for it...while it obstructed us and supported opposi ion against us...with our money.


The ing UN is the one that ed up the Iraq OFF program...Saddam murdered his people while corrupt UN diplomats got fat off their blood...

They started that program under the guise of helping the people and corrupted it for $$$.

And then it was all laid at the feet of America...as if we couldn't have gotten in line to get some of the subsidized Oil in the OFF.

ing Idiots.

[whottt]

It's Americas fault.

Gee...what intellect.

[whottt]

My views on the US are generally positive.

My post was in response to whottt, DOS, gtownspur and others, whose at ude is usually “ the rest of the World, we are always right, they are always wrong”.

I’m not saying this is the at ude of the majority of Americans. , I don’t even think this is the at ude of most of the posters on this board. But unfortunately, because of these at udes, which capture the attention of the international media, plus some of the things Bush has done in these last four years, that’s the perception the rest of the World has of the US.

I started some time ago a thread asking the American posters why they thought the rest of the world hated them. I probably should not have used the word “hate”, but in any case, the substance of the question I asked was legitimate.

I have yet to read from these posters that anything America does is not the best thing to do: to them, every single war the US has fought from Korea to Iraq, is fully justified. To them, every single intervention in a foreign country, is justified. To them, not trying to agree with the rest of the world on issues such as global warming and agricultural subsidies is OK, because, who the needs those idiots anyway?

And the UN, who needs those bozos? We are the US, we don’t need a bunch of lesser countries telling us what we can and cannot do.

Again, I’m representing what some posters believe. I’m not even saying this is the way I believe the US government conducts itself. And if you ask some American posters, you’ll see they have the same view I have.

Are you ignorant of the corruption in the OFF program , blinded by hatred, or just deliberately ignoring it because it doesn't jibe with your views....


All those countries on the UN security council that opposed the Iraq War have gotten their asses nailed...Kofi Annan has gotten his ass nailed...


Does it ever occur to you that the UN is being used to protect the interests of countries far more corrupt and opressive than the US?


It is now a subversive influence in this world more allied with opressive regimes and opression than it is with progression.

I have heard you views...every idiot that has seen farenheit 911 and now considers themselves politically educated spews this ad nauseum...it is you that is the sheep not I.



And is not enough for you that we have ing idiots like Nbadan and boutons that hate this country?


You want the whole country to be that way?

I think you are ignorant smeagol...I think you are ignorant of how arrogant and haugthy and hypocritical your words sound to me...

That's what I think....

You want to take a piss on my country while you live and get paid $$$''

you.

And NBAdan and boutons too...no one forces them to live here.

Go live in one of the enlightened anti-American countries...just go do it shut up and stop being a ing hypocrite.

Go live there...and blame America like all the other idiots that can't do anything to excuse their incompetence and corrupt cultures except blame someone else for it.

[whottt]

By the way...the UN doesn't help third world countries...it creates them. And all those enlightened countries...France in particular...are the main culprits behind their creation.

[Yonivore]

By the way...the UN doesn't help third world countries...it creates them. And all those enlightened countries...France in particular...are the main culprits behind their creation.

There's something we agree on!

[smeagol]

The UN isn't the world...

I never said this.

I think those that hate my country and want it destroyed or weakened are most definitely morons of the highest degree...they are so incredibly ing stupid that words cannot describe.

So France and Germany want to destroy the US. You are ing paranoid.

Now Anti-americans like youself

Anybody that criticizes the US, for you and the idiots that think like you, is Anti-American. I really don’t care if you believe me or not, but I’m not Anti-American. , I don’t agree with most of what boutons and Nbadan post. But you are too stupid to realize the difference between them and myself. Simply because I’m against the war in Iraq, and I’m against the US intervening in other countries affairs as if the World were its back yard, and I don’t agree with some other policies the US champions, in your book I’m an Anti-American. Again, ing ignorant you are.

I have defended the US in my home country for as long as I can remember, against many of the unjust attacks it receives. Again, you are a dumb .

Yeap. They most definitely are...do you even look into things before you speak? Go look at what the UN is up to....

So. The UN might be corrupt, but so is any government on Earth. You don’t like the UN, work to change it.

What's the matter smeagol...upset that we helped stop the holocaust...sorry buddy. Sucks to be you...take the fall of Nazism like man...you Nazis lost. Don't be a sore loser.

Not much I can say to this kind of ignorant statement.

Probably as stupid as that other memorable statement of yours where you said that carrying an Israeli flag in Auschwitz and being harassed, by neo Nazis is the fault of the guy carrying the flag.

Coming from the man who started the "why does the rest of the world hate the US".

I already said that it is my bad. I should not have used the word hate. Maybe the word dislike. Nevertheless my question was legit. Or you deny that many people out there dislike the US?

The World...the beacon of enlightenment held back only by the US. Major ing rolleyes.

Huh? Again with your "the World vs the US" . Christ.

It's real simple...if you don't like my country...I don't like you. If you want to destroy or weaken my country...I would rather see you destroyed first.

Moron, I like your country. I like many things about it. I just don’t like idiots like you. Arrogant s who think the US is flawless.

It's not so much that my country is blameless...it's that it's haters to such a good job of hating it that I don't have to point out it's faults.

Your problem is you are so arrogant you can’t discern between fair criticism and hate.

I just take a good long look at the source of the criticism...

Whatever whottt. Next time I’ll ask for permission to see if I can criticize your country

The UN is a corrupt hole by the way....it's comprised of silver spoon aristocratic diplomats that are totally and completely selling out the purpose for which it was formed...

Then make it better. It’s much more desirable to have a World body deciding on World affairs than one powerful country going around, doing as it pleases.

[QUOTE=whottt And why don't you tell me something the UN actually has done Smeagol....that it did without the US having to do for it...while it obstructed us and supported opposi ion against us...with our money. [/QUOTE]
Again, your arrogant mentality. If the UN did anything right, its only because of the US. Great.

[whottt]

I never said this.

I was criticizing the UN and you went on the world rant...you frequently speak for the world...and I frequently respond to you in that same capacity. If you don't like me responding in that fashion than stop posing questions in that fashion.

So France and Germany want to destroy the US. You are ing paranoid.

Am I?

You do realize that the US fought against France and Germany in the last WW don't you?

I know for a fact they want to cripple America economically and make the EU a counter balance or more powerful...

And as typical among those with the Socialist mindest...they do not seek to do this by actually becoming stronger than us...they seek to do it by weakening us.

This is most definitely true and if you listen to the comments of their leaders you will know I am not paranoid.

Anybody that criticizes the US, for you and the idiots that think like you, is Anti-American. I really don’t care if you believe me or not, but I’m not Anti-American. , I don’t agree with most of what boutons and Nbadan post.

But you are too stupid to realize the difference between them and myself. Simply because I’m against the war in Iraq, and I’m against the US intervening in other countries affairs as if the World were its back yard,

It's amazing...no one is ever against the US intervening on their behalf and letting American boys die in their cause...it's only when we act in our interests and safety that we beome evil... all ya'll.

You got no problem with us giving aid and feeding everyone though do you?

You got no problems with American taxpayers paying for the rest of the world..you just have a problem with them earning the money to do it right?

That's what I thought.

and I don’t agree with some other policies the US champions, in your book I’m an Anti-American. Again, ing ignorant you are.

I have defended the US in my home country for as long as I can remember, against many of the unjust attacks it receives. Again, you are a dumb .

Why bother?

So. The UN might be corrupt, but so is any government on Earth. You don’t like the UN, work to change it.

The UN is worse...you don't understand how Aristocracy works....you don't understand that when people talk about the evils of Capitalism and Imperialism...99% of everything people attribute to America is actually the European and World models of those concepts...even to this day.

America combines Capitalism and Democracy with Populism...the Populism is the concept that the Europeans don't get it...


And I am working to change it....that's why I advocate cutting funding to them and kicking them out of the country to where they can get a good hard dose of the situation THEY created in the Middle East...THAT WE ARE NOW CLEANING UP WHILE THEY SIT ON THEIR ASSES DOING NOTHING OTHER THAN MAKING USELESS ING RESOLUTIONS THAT THEY WILL NEVER ENFORCE, AND LEGITMIZING CORRUPT REGIMES.

Probably as stupid as that other memorable statement of yours where you said that carrying an Israeli flag in Auschwitz and being harassed, by neo Nazis is the fault of the guy carrying the flag.

I didn't say it was his fault...I said he was stupid for thinking he could get away with being a jew in the place that gave bith to anti-semitism...and where it is being reborn again.


If a woman dresses in a short revealing skirt and goes to the worst part of town and gets raped...I will agree she should have the right to do that...however I will question her intelligence for thinking she could do it...

This is why are liberals are stupid...they think everyone wants peace and acceptance...this is a naive and childish world view...it is irresponsible and it would be squashed like a bug without those willing to fight and die in the name of the freedom.

I already said that it is my bad. I should not have used the word hate. Maybe the word dislike. Nevertheless my question was legit. Or you deny that many people out there dislike the US?

I think there are a lot people that hate the US...are they the majority? No...I don't think the number of stupid people in the world is greater than the number of smart.

Case in point...our two chief allies...the UK and GB...both of their Pro-American leaders were re-elected...

While both of our two nemesis...ChIraq and Shcroeder...are most likely on their way out. Schroder is likely to lose out to a Pro-American Candidate...

Obviously...they don't think American money is as evil when it stops supporting their economy.

Huh? Again with your "the World vs the US" . Christ.

Says the man who starts threads about why THE WORLD dislikes/hates the US...it's only okay when you speak on those terms right smeagol?

Moron, I like your country. I like many things about it. I just don’t like idiots like you. Arrogant s who think the US is flawless.

I don't think it's flawless...I just think it has far fewer flaws than those that criticize it..and I frequently find the criticisms to be based in historical ignorance.

Your problem is you are so arrogant you can’t discern between fair criticism and hate.


Whatever whottt. Next time I’ll ask for permission to see if I can criticize your country

By all means criticize...just don't whine when someone criticizes your opinion...it's a two way street you know.

Then make it better. It’s much more desirable to have a World body deciding on World affairs than one powerful country going around, doing as it pleases.

What they do they decide? What do they do? Tell me something they have done without that one powerful country getting their backs?

And they serve our enemies now...why in the should we enable that?



And why don't you tell me something the UN actually has done Smeagol....that it did without the US having to do for it...while it obstructed us and supported opposi ion against us...with our money.

Again, your arrogant mentality. If the UN did anything right, its only because of the US. Great.

Tell me something the UN has done right... tell me something the UN has done...without the US doing it for them...economically...militarilly...

and then these s stab us in the back when we need aid...

Ditto France and Germany...we ing died giving their ing countries back to them and treated them fairly and all they can do is aid our enemies...

[smeagol]

whottt, I don't hate America, and that's the bottom line. I don't like some of its policies, please get it through your thick skull. Hate is what you profess towards France, Germany and the UN.

I'm happy with the US as the only superpower. I would be happier if the US would find a way to work with the other nations to solve world problemsand not attack other countries using phony arguments.

Actually, and this will probably cause a cold chill run through yoiur spine, in four years, I can be an American citizen too. Chew on that for a while.

[smeagol]

Are you ignorant of the corruption in the OFF program , blinded by hatred, or just deliberately ignoring it because it doesn't jibe with your views....

No, I'm not ignorant of the corruption in the FFO program.

I don't hate the US. I said it a million times. It's you who hates everybody who does not think like you. It's you who hates the UN, Germany and France.

What's jibe?

All those countries on the UN security council that opposed the Iraq War have gotten their asses nailed...Kofi Annan has gotten his ass nailed

Sure, if you oppose the war, you are an idiot, if you are a country that opposed the war, you are corrupt. The ing arrogance you talk with is nauseating.

Does it ever occur to you that the UN is being used to protect the interests of countries far more corrupt and opressive than the US?

Used? By whom?

I did not have you pinned as a conspiracy theorist. Did it ever occur to you that other countries might not share America’s views with respect to certain issues?

It is now a subversive influence in this world more allied with opressive regimes and opression than it is with progression.

Sure. Great characterization of the UN.

Given that I have heard what you think about Germany and France, and given that I have read that thread about Jews, Auschwitz and the Israeli flag, I know were to fit the statement above. Together with you other idiotic statements.

I have heard you views...every idiot that has seen farenheit 911 and now considers themselves politically educated spews this ad nauseum...it is you that is the sheep not I.

Arrogant prick, what are my views again?

And is not enough for you that we have ing idiots like Nbadan and boutons that hate this country?

The good thing is that there are millions of Americans whose views are closer to mine than to yours.

You want the whole country to be that way?

I want the whole country to think as far away from what you think as possible.

I think you are ignorant smeagol...

You are not very bright either.

I think you are ignorant of how arrogant and haugthy and hypocritical your words sound to me...

Dude, you have no clue how arrogant you sound to me and to many.

You want to take a piss on my country

Show me where I take a piss on your country. Not agreeing with all your country does is taking a piss at it? You are stupid.

while you live and get paid $$$''

I have every right to live and get paid here because an American company transferred me from Argentina. They somehow thought the job I do could not be done by an American. And I probably pay more taxes in one year than what you make in three. I’m paying for the war in Iraq as much as you are. Dip .

you.

you! right back at ya.

Go live in one of the enlightened anti-American countries...just go do it shut up and stop being a ing hypocrite.

I live where the I want. I’m happy where I am.

Again, I’m no hypocrite. But you are too dumb to know the difference between criticizing and hating.

Go live there...and blame America like all the other idiots that can't do anything to excuse their incompetence and corrupt cultures except blame someone else for it.

What an arrogant prick!

[smeagol]

You do realize that the US fought against France and Germany in the last WW don't you?

I thought France was your ally. But you probably have a way of changing history and telling me how ignorant I am.

I know for a fact they want to cripple America economically and make the EU a counter balance or more powerful...

For a fact? Chirac told you that?

And as typical among those with the Socialist mindest...they do not seek to do this by actually becoming stronger than us...they seek to do it by weakening us.

Right. America never does anything to try to weaken its economic compe ors. You are dumber and even blinder than what I thought.

This is most definitely true and if you listen to the comments of their leaders you will know I am not paranoid.

You are definitely paranoid.

It's amazing...no one is ever against the US intervening on their behalf and letting American boys die in their cause...it's only when we act in our interests and safety that we beome evil... all ya'll.

Do I really need to explain this one to you? Are you this dumb?

You got no problem with us giving aid and feeding everyone though do you?

Great analogy. Keep them coming. Giving aid and blowing countries out of the face of this World. Great analogy.

You got no problems with American taxpayers paying for the rest of the world..you just have a problem with them earning the money to do it right?

No problem. People in America have money to spare. Other parts of the World are not that lucky. They starve. No problem with the lucky helping the unlucky.

And I am working to change it....that's why I advocate cutting funding to them and kicking them out of the country to where they can get a good hard dose of the situation THEY created in the Middle East...THAT WE ARE NOW CLEANING UP WHILE THEY SIT ON THEIR ASSES DOING NOTHING OTHER THAN MAKING USELESS ING RESOLUTIONS THAT THEY WILL NEVER ENFORCE, AND LEGITMIZING CORRUPT REGIMES.

Work to change it from within. Not destroying it.

I didn't say it was his fault...I said he was stupid for thinking he could get away with being a jew in the place that gave bith to anti-semitism...and where it is being reborn again.

What you said in that thread confirms you are an idiot.

If a woman dresses in a short revealing skirt and goes to the worst part of town and gets raped...I will agree she should have the right to do that...however I will question her intelligence for thinking she could do it...

Stupid analogy. As stupid as the one you used in the actual thread about and American waving the American flag in Europe only if secret service agents are near by. Stupid and untrue. You can wave the stars and stripes flag anywhere in Europe without any danger to you whatsoever. What happened to those Jewish kids was totally unacceptable and you were trying to justify it.

I can't say you are a bigot because your ex-wife is Jewish and because there is no evidence in other threads that you are. I have to conclude you are an idiot because ther is plenty of evidence in other threads that you are.

This is why are liberals are stupid...they think everyone wants peace and acceptance...this is a naive and childish world view...it is irresponsible and it would be squashed like a bug without those willing to fight and die in the name of the freedom.

Again you show your true colors. America has to blow the out of everybody who does not think like you. Liberals' view is naive and childlish. Your view is something else.

I think there are a lot people that hate the US...are they the majority? No...I don't think the number of stupid people in the world is greater than the number of smart.

I know far too many smart people that don’t agree with you and with some of the things the US does.

Case in point...our two chief allies...the UK and GB...both of their Pro-American leaders were re-elected...

UK=GB. That’s one country.

By the way, Aznar lost by a landslide. And I don’t think Berlusconi is even going for reelection.

I don't think it's flawless...I just think it has far fewer flaws than those that criticize it..and I frequently find the criticisms to be based in historical ignorance.

My criticisms are as legit as your defence.

By all means criticize...just don't whine when someone criticizes your opinion...it's a two way street you know.

Who’s whining?

What they do they decide? What do they do? Tell me something they have done without that one powerful country getting their backs?

And why don't you tell me something the UN actually has done Smeagol....that it did without the US having to do for it...while it obstructed us and supported opposi ion against us...with our money.

Tell me something the UN has done right... tell me something the UN has done...without the US doing it for them...economically...militarilly...

The US is a big part of the UN. It’s stupid to ask me what has the UN done without the US. Don’t you see that?

And they serve our enemies now...why in the should we enable that?

You are so ing paranoid.

Ditto France and Germany...we ing died giving their ing countries back to them and treated them fairly and all they can do is aid our enemies...

[whottt]

I thought France was your ally. But you probably have a way of changing history and telling me how ignorant I am.

Allies? LMAO...more like we liberated their country from their own people and gave it back to the ones that weren't Nazis.

How horrible we are for interfering in other countries affairs.

You are ignorant of history...after the US entered the war the first US troops killed in the war were killed by the Vichy French..

The French captured and shipped more jews off to concentration camps than the Italians did.

So yes...you are ignorant of history.

The two most anti-semitic countries in Europe are France and Germany...the past 60 years has been the exception...not the rule....anti-semitism is on the rise in both places.

For a fact? Chirac told you that?

LOL...

Only a European currency, Chirac said on Thursday night, could put
France and the rest of Europe on a level playing field with the United
States and the Asian economies in an increasingly compe ive global
marketplace.

"We need a means to struggle against American hegemony," he said.
"There is a problem of the dollar. The only way is to be strong, to have a
common currency. There is no other way."

That quote is from 1996.

Right. America never does anything to try to weaken its economic compe ors. You are dumber and even blinder than what I thought.

No...I am not dumb...anyone that thinks France and Germany are merely good friends looking out for our best interests is dumb. This boutons and John Kerry...and anyone that thinsk the UN is about anything other than bribes these days...is also ignorant.

You are definitely paranoid.

I am not paranoid..

No problem. People in America have money to spare. Other parts of the World are not that lucky. They starve. No problem with the lucky helping the unlucky.

Yes there is...when you have been helping the unlucky for the past century and all it gets you is a knife in the back from these ers..

Work to change it from within. Not destroying it.

I never said destroy it...I just don't want to fund it anymore, I don't want to put on airs about what it's role in the world is today..and I want it the out of this country.

It is not a benevolent organization...it is certainly no friend of America... em. Get Iran to support them. Let them Iran over for a while...

Stupid analogy. As stupid as the one you used in the actual thread about and American waving the American flag in Europe only if secret service agents are near by. Stupid and untrue. You can wave the stars and stripes flag anywhere in Europe without any danger to you whatsoever. What happened to those Jewish kids was totally unacceptable and you were trying to justify it.

No..you just can't expand your mind enough to understand my point...

The simple fact that the people did get harassed proves my point and kicks your ass.

I can't say you are a bigot because your ex-wife is Jewish and because there is no evidence in other threads that you are. I have to conclude you are an idiot because ther is plenty of evidence in other threads that you are.

Oh I am bigot on certain things...and so are you.

Again you show your true colors. America has to blow the out of everybody who does not think like you. Liberals' view is naive and childlish. Your view is something else.

[

Yeah...my view is realistic of the way the world works. Not everyone wants peace. Not everyone wants to sit around and sing kumbaya...not everyone wants to get along. And sometimes war is necessary...maybe some day it won't be...but that day has not arrived and anyone that thinks it has...is a ing idiot.

I know far too many smart people that don’t agree with you and with some of the things the US does.

Good for you...unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that they are misguided.

UK=GB. That’s one country.

Australia.

By the way, Aznar lost by a landslide. And I don’t think Berlusconi is even going for reelection.

Oh damn...the Italians switched...how rare.

Our top two allies in the Iraq war and the most Pro-American leaders...both got re-elected. Now let's see what happens to Chiraq and Shcroeder.

Now don't get me wrong...there is legitimate anti-americanism in both of those countries...in fact those two leaders have ridden it for all they are worth...but the simple fact is that Americans have basically been boycotting them since they stabbed us in the back...

The US is a big part of the UN. It’s stupid to ask me what has the UN done without the US. Don’t you see that?

And what has the UN done for the US? Not jack .

Not in ing Vietnam.
Not in ing Korea.
They fund the Palestinians.
They ed us on this Iraq deal.
They are not doing in Afghanistan.
They did not do in Somalia.
They did not do in Kosovo.

And now they are going to protect Iran...

these guys.

You are so ing paranoid.

I am not paranoid... go read a newspaper.

Roll eyes?

[whottt]

No, I'm not ignorant of the corruption in the FFO program.

I don't hate the US. I said it a million times. It's you who hates everybody who does not think like you. It's you who hates the UN, Germany and France.

I definitely hate the UN...it's a piece of . All they do is take our money and our food and stick a UN emblem on it and then us over.

And I don't hate France and Germany....but they are certainly not friendly countries...they are compe ors...and they give two s about the past...or this country...or it's people.

Sure, if you oppose the war, you are an idiot, if you are a country that opposed the war, you are corrupt. The ing arrogance you talk with is nauseating.

Go read about the OFF scandal...and then apologize.

I did not have you pinned as a conspiracy theorist. Did it ever occur to you that other countries might not share America’s views with respect to certain issues?

Did it ever occure to you that I didn't just pull this opinion out of my ass...

Sure. Great characterization of the UN.

The UN sucks ass...they are a ing joke...excuse me...an irrelevant joke. Their security measures get laughed at by everyone...most especially the countries they are levied against.

Given that I have heard what you think about Germany and France, and given that I have read that thread about Jews, Auschwitz and the Israeli flag, I know were to fit the statement above. Together with you other idiotic statements.

Smeago...go jump in a tank with a hungry shark and appeal to it's peaceful side...c'mon...all anyone needs is a little understanding...Rolleyes.

The good thing is that there are millions of Americans whose views are closer to mine than to yours.

Then how come my guy is in the whitehouse?

I want the whole country to think as far away from what you think as possible.

and I want it as far away from what you think as possible...you want to turn us into Argentina. that.

I have every right to live and get paid here because an American company transferred me from Argentina. They somehow thought the job I do could not be done by an American. And I probably pay more taxes in one year than what you make in three. I’m paying for the war in Iraq as much as you are. Dip .

Good...it's good to see you are doing something good too offset the leeching.

Again, I’m no hypocrite. But you are too dumb to know the difference between criticizing and hating.

Yawn.

[smeagol]

whottt, the only thing your Chiraq quote proves is that he wanted (in 1996) a stong currency.

Big ing deal. All countries want that.

[smeagol]

Smeago...go jump in a tank with a hungry shark and appeal to it's peaceful side...c'mon...all anyone needs is a little understanding...Rolleyes.

Reread the thread. Maybe one or two of the people who posted in that thread "had a little undestanding" (and shared your twisted view of reality). All the others thought you were a moron. Go figure.