3rd GOP Debate on CNBC

[DMX7]

Lindsey Graham looks like a mad man out there.

[boutons_deux]

Jindal On His State's Big Deficit: I'll Do For America What I Did For Louisiana!


Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) said at Wednesday's GOP undercard debate he would "absolutely" bring his state's no-taxes-at-all-costs budget approach to the federal government, even after moderator John Harwood pointed out it led to Louisiana's $1.6 billion deficit.
"When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state legislature faced a $1.6 billion budget gap and the Republican State Treasurer called one of your approaches to that problem 'Nonsense on a stick,'" Harwood said. "Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did for the Louisiana budget?"

"Absolutely, John," Jindal said, before bragging about the 30,000 state jobs that had been cut under his tenure. He went on to claim that his budget policies lead to economic growth and job creation.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...+%28TPMNews%29

[hater]

Lindsey Graham looks like a mad man out there.

He sounds gay as to me. That gay?

I'm 100% sure he's gay. Even when he said "I'm your commander in chief" he sounded like a got in a gay movie tbh

[Michael Jordan.]

this debate.

[Warlord23]

This is what happens to a political party which is based on a coalition of the rich and the stupid: the puppets of the rich need to act stupid in public.

[boutons_deux]

When any Republican candidate is asked a serious question that they can’t answer, they scream media bias and crumble into a puddle of tears.

Ted Cruz was asked if his opposition to the budget deal was not the kind of problem solver Americans want.Cruz answered:

Let me just say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked at this debate illustrate why the American people don’t trust the media.

When Rubio was asked about calls for him to resign because he missing so many Senate votes

It’s actually evidence of the bias that exists in the American media today

When Republicans get asked a tough question, it is media bias.

Rubio was asked why he missed votes, and it is media bias.

Ben Carson and Donald Trump were asked why their numbers on their tax plans don’t add up, and Republicans scream media bias.

Ted Cruz is asked if bipartisan compromise shows that he is not the kind of leader that America is looking for, and he yells media bias.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/...iticus+USA+%29

[Clipper Nation]

Another debate, another Trump win.

[JoeChalupa]

Rubio, Cruz, Graham, Carson delivered the best lines of the night. The others were just blah, blah, blah. Christie did get in some good ones too. My bad. After Trump and Ben drop out...and they will...I see Rubio and Cruz having a great path to the nomination.

[Jacob1983]

Cruz cracked me up with his cage match rant and offering the CNBC pot brownies. Hilarious .

[Michael Jordan.]

Rubio, Cruz, Graham, Carson delivered the best lines of the night. The others were just blah, blah, blah. Christie did get in some good ones too. My bad. After Trump and Ben drop out...and they will...I see Rubio and Cruz having a great path to the nomination.

Carson has no idea what the he is talking about. Cruz is a dumb . And Rubio cried the whole time about the liberal media

[pgardn]

Some of those questions were intended for fireworks and had nothing to do with policy.
CNBC looking for ratings... Go figure.
The question to Huckabee giving him a chance to use his "moral authority" over Trump was hilarious. And Huckabee took the sacrifice bunt. Sorry CNBC.

[boutons_deux]

Cruz is a dumb .

nope, Cruz is very smart, very articulate, which makes his rousing the rabble with ridiculous lies, propaganda, bull demagoguery all the more evil. He knows exactly what he's doing and understands his dumb supporters (esp in TX) very well. Thanks, Texians!

[Spurminator]

Ted Cruz is a robot.

[boutons_deux]

Fact checking the Republican debate

BC aired two GOP presidential debates on Wednesday: a prime-time event starring 11 candidates and an earlier debate featuring four second-tier contenders, based on an average of recent polls.

The following are some of the most notable claims, culled from a lengthier list, available online, and fact-checked.

==============

"92 percent of the jobs lost in Barack Obama's first term were to women."

- Carly Fiorina

Fiorina, the former business executive who served as a surrogate for Mitt Romney during his 2012 presidential run, recycles a misleading talking point from that unsuccessful campaign - but oddly, she never double-checked the math. The Romney campaign calculated these figures by comparing the decline in the number of all non-farm employees from January 2009 to March 2012 with the decline in jobs held by women in that period.

While the statistic was technically correct for one month in 2012 - about three years into Obama's first term - it quickly was dropped by Romney's campaign because newer economic data made it obsolete.

In the debate, Fiorina claimed that this statistic was true for Obama's first term. But by the time he took the oath of office a second time, his jobs record was a net winner, both for men and women. So this claim is utterly wrong.

=========

"The socialist [Sen. Bernie Sanders] says they're going to pay for everything and give you everything for free, except they don't tell you they're going to raise your taxes to 90 percent to do it."

- Chris Christie

This claim by the New Jersey governor is false, although it has increasingly emerged as a GOP talking point. Sanders, an independent from Vermont who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, has not yet released a tax plan but has denied repeatedly that he would increase taxes from the current marginal rate of 39.6 percent to 90 percent. (The marginal rate is what you pay on each additional dollar earned.)

The United States had a marginal tax rate of 90 percent during the administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower, and then John F. Kennedy reduced it to 70 percent. But such rates would still not take 90 percent of any person's income.

====

"My record was one of cutting taxes each and every year. You don't have to guess about it, because I already have a record [cutting] $19 billion in taxes."
- Jeb Bush

The former Florida governor repeatedly claims that he cut $19 billion in taxes over his eight years in office, but that is quite misleading. This refers to ulative state revenue changes as a result of state and federal decisions, and it includes revenue changes from tax and non-tax legislative actions during his tenure as governor.

Moreover, this $19 billion figure includes revenue the state would have received if the federal estate tax credit had not been phased out. There were some states that levied new state taxes to balance out the phaseout of the federal estate tax. Bush didn't fight the estate tax repeal. But that's certainly not the same as actively "cutting" those tax revenues from the state budget.

=====

"For the first time in 35 years, more businesses are closing than starting."
- Marco Rubio

The senator from Florida is referring to a report published in 2014 by the Brookings Ins ution that studied Census Bureau data called Business Dynamic Statistics. Brookings analysts tracked data back to 1978 and found that starting in 2008, business deaths exceeded business births.

But note that this started happening seven years ago, while Rubio makes it sound as if it is a new development.

===========

"I went into Ohio, where you had an $8 billion hole and now we have a $2 billion surplus. We're up 347,000 jobs. When I was in Washington . . . we cut taxes and we had a $5 trillion projected surplus when I left. That's hard work."
- John Kasich

These are Kasich's go-to claims about his record as Ohio governor and former chairman of the House Budget Committee. But some of his figures lack context.

The $8 billion figure reflects the breadth of the budget imbalance that Kasich's administration faced when he took office (the actual figure is $7.7 billion). But the projection did not end up being as high, and the actual shortfall was decreased by hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kasich's $2 billion figure and jobs numbers largely check out.

Kudos also to Kasich for clarifying that the $5 trillion surplus was a projection, not an actual surplus, when he left Congress in 2000. The figure he uses was a projected, 10-year surplus - but it didn't end up materializing, because of a slower economy, tax cuts and increased government spending after 9/11 in the years after Kasich left Washington.

==========

"Social Security is going to be insolvent in seven to eight years."
- Christie

The New Jersey governor significantly misstates the date for when Social Security's trust funds will be depleted; that will not happen for another 20 years (and even then, Social Security can pay partial benefits).


==========

"We've lost 2 million jobs - 2 million jobs - under this administration in manufacturing."
- Rick Santorum

The former senator from Pennsylvania is wrong. Manufacturing took a huge hit during the Great Recession, so 2 million jobs were lost between December 2007 and June 2009, the official length of the recession, according to government statistics. But the recession began a year before Obama took office.

Meanwhile, from those depths, manufacturing has slowly crawled its way back. From the start of Obama's presidency, there are about 250,000 fewer manufacturing jobs, so Santorum is off by a factor of eight. Still, manufacturing jobs are about 1.4 million fewer than the start of the recession.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...028-story.html

[boutons_deux]

8 Lies, Distortions and Misrepresentations From the Third GOP Debate

The debates took place in an alternate reality, where facts are made up on the spot.

1. The fake “forced...socialism” of Obamacare.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) said that the Democrats “forced Obamacare and socialism down our throats.” That ignores the fact that the Affordable Care Act is far from socialist; it was based on a plan implemented by Republican Mitt Romney in his state, and mirrors a proposal from the conservative Heritage Foundation. After all, Obamacare is based on expanding care through private health insurance plans. It's worth noting that we do have socialism in our system; the Veterans Administration and Medicare, and Americans love both.

2. Retelling the myth of Ronald Reagan and the USSR.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) claimed that the Russians wouldn't be in Ukraine if Ronald Reagan were president. The problem is, during the entirety of Reagan's tenure, the Russians were in Ukraine, under the au es of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.

3. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate.
Jindal claimed the U.S. has the world's highest corporate tax rate. On paper, the U.S. rate is actually the third-highest, and its effective tax rates—meaning what firms actually pay in practice—is among the lowest of developed countries.

4. Boeing came to South Carolina because of low taxes.

Graham went on a tear about high taxes and how Boeing was “welcome” in South Carolina due to the state's tax environment. Actually, South Carolina effectively bribed the company with hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks. Boeing didn't come for low taxes in general; it came because the state gave it a special handout most citizens and firms do not get.

5. Cutting taxes will magically fund the government.
Ben Carson was challenged on his flat tax plan, which would leave the government trillions of dollars short. Considering that Carson is not calling for reducing government spending by 50 to 75 percent, there is no way his plan could fund the operations of the government.

6. Paul Ryan's “fiscal discipline.”

Although Ryan was not on the stage, moderator John Harwood tried to contrast his “reputation for fiscal discipline” with that of Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY). The only thing is, Ryan's reputation is entirely media-driven. In reality, his much-touted budget plans would both e federal debt and reduce social spending.

7. Lie: Social Security is going bankrupt.

Chris Christie repeatedly tried to paint a picture of a depleted Social Security fund, with claims that the government “stole” everything out of the funds and the program won't be there for seniors. The reality is that Social Security is funded for decades, and a minor change to the tax cap would keep it funded through most of the 21st century.

8. Rand Paul: raising the retirement age is the “only way” to “fix” Medicare.

Rand Paul claimed there is no alternative to hiking the retirement age, claiming Medicare will not exist unless this happens—with support from other candidates such as Christie. As Dean Baker and other economists have shown, if the U.S. could get its health care costs in line with all of its peer countries, Medicare would be fully sustainable.

As usual, the third GOP debate didn't have much grounding in reality, but it did offer an entertaining look at an alternate universe.

http://www.alternet.org/8-lies-disto...ter1044892&t=2

[boutons_deux]

CARSON: His proposed flat-rate tax, which would have everyone pay an income tax rate of about 15 percent, "works out very well" in budget terms because it would spark enough economic growth to offset the lower rate.


THE FACTS: Carson says his proposed tax would not increase the budget deficit because he would tax the entire economic output of the U.S. — the gross domestic product — plus corporate income and capital gains.

Carson has not laid out a detailed plan, so it is difficult to measure how it would affect revenues or the economy. But based on what he said, he's double counting because corporate revenues are part of the GDP.

A tax rate of 15 percent would be a huge tax cut for the wealthy. The top income tax rate for individuals is now 39.6 percent. The corporate tax rate for corporations is 35 percent.

To help offset the rate cuts, Carson said he would "get rid of all the deductions and all the loopholes." That's a bold proposal, considering how popular many tax breaks are, including deductions for interest on home mortgages and charitable contributions, as well as exemptions for health insurance and retirement savings.
___

TRUMP: "I'm putting up 100 percent of my own money."

THE FACTS: No, he's not.

Of $3.9 million raised for his campaign in the latest fundraising quarter, only $100,000 came from his own pocket. That was one major revelation from the latest batch of presidential fundraising reports, filed Oct. 15 with the Federal Election Commission.

That's a drastic shift from his springtime fundraising report, when he loaned his campaign nearly all of the $1.9 million it had.
___

CHRISTIE: FBI Director James Comey said police officers are holding back "because of a lack of support from politicians like the president of the United States."

THE FACTS: That's not what Comey said.

In a speech last week about an alarming rise in crime, Comey said some officers feel under siege because of the spread of viral videos taken by young people with cell phones. Comey said he'd heard about one police official who told his force "their political leadership has no tolerance for a viral video."
But Comey never mentioned Obama or blamed politicians for failing to support police. And Comey made clear he didn't have data to back up his gut impression.
Christie also said when Obama was asked to speak about the issue, he declined to support police. In fact, Obama gave a firm defense of police on Tuesday, telling a police chiefs convention that "this country is safer because of your efforts."
___

BUSH: "Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term, and you should be showing up for work."

RUBIO: "Barack Obama missed 60 or 70 percent of his votes" when running for president while he was in the Senate.

THE FACTS: Bush correctly cited Rubio's spotty attendance record in the Senate since running for president, but ignored the fact that this is common when someone in public office runs a White House campaign —and previous candidates were absent far more often. Bush himself is free to run for president as he pleases, because he doesn't have a day job from which to be absent.

For his part, Rubio didn't offer a fair comparison when comparing his Senate voting rate with Obama's.

From Oct. 27, 2014, to Oct. 26, 2015, Rubio was absent for 26 percent of Senate votes, a worse attendance record than other senators running for president, according to an analysis by GovTrack.us, which tracks congressional voting records.

But in a comparable period in the 2008 race — from Oct. 23, 2006, to Oct. 22, 2007, Obama was absent for 29 percent of votes, a bit more than Rubio's absences, but not as much more as Rubio charged. Republican John McCain was absent for 51 percent of Senate votes in that period.

Both Obama and McCain went on to miss an even bigger share of Senate votes as the election progressed — an expected development bound to be seen again in 2016.
___

CHRISTIE: The federal government has "stolen" the Social Security taxes paid by workers and spent it on other things. "It isn't their money any more... It got stolen from them. It's not theirs anymore. The government stole it and spent it a long time ago."

THE FACTS: The money is not stolen, it's borrowed.

Over the past 30 years, Social Security has collected about $2.7 trillion more in payroll taxes than it has paid in benefits. By law, the Treasury Department has invested the surplus in U.S. Treasury bonds.

Over that same time period, the federal government has run budget deficits in all but a few years. To finance the deficits, the government has borrowed money, from other government agencies as well as public debt markets.

The money from Social Security has been spent, but Social Security holds Treasury bonds worth $2.7 trillion, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Saying the money has been stolen assumes that the federal government will not honor the bonds.

Social Security has been paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes since 2010. The program has been able to pay full benefits because the federal government has honored the bonds.
___

SEN. TED CRUZ: "If you look at a single mom buying groceries, she sees hamburger prices have gone up nearly 40 percent. She sees her cost of electricity going up. She sees her health insurance going up. And loose money is one of the major problems."

THE FACTS: Americans may be facing many economic challenges, but rising inflation isn't one of them. And "loose money," a way of describing the Federal Reserve's low interest rate policies, isn't to blame for expensive hamburgers.

Beef prices rose 21 percent in January of this year compared with a year earlier. That reflected a Midwest drought that had caused some cattle ranchers to cull their herds. Beef prices have since settled down and were up just 1 percent in September from a year earlier.

Electricity costs have actually fallen 0.4 percent during that period. Those are national averages, so some local areas will have different figures. Overall, inflation has remained below even the Fed's 2 percent target for the past three years. In fact, the government's primary inflation measure, the consumer price index, has actually been unchanged in the past 12 months.
___

TRUMP: Asked about his criticism of Rubio for his support for increasing the number of high-skilled foreign workers given visas to work in the U.S. — calling Rubio Facebook CEO "Mark Zuckerburg's personal senator" — Trump denied ever making the comment. "I never said that. I never said that," he said.

THE FACTS: He did say it, on his own website. Trump's immigration policy calls for a different approach — raising the prevailing wage for the jobs that attract high-skilled foreign workers, in hopes that they'll be filled by more Americans.

Trump's policy statement said doing that "will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg's personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities."
___

SEN. RAND PAUL: The new budget agreement "will explode the deficit, it will allow President Obama to borrow unlimited amounts of money."

THE FACTS: The agreement allows $80 billion more spending over the next two years, which is only a small addition to the $3.67 trillion the government spends every year.

The government's annual budget deficit has declined to $439 billion, about 2.5 percent of GDP, below the average for the past 40 years.

Overall, whatever its faults, most economists have responded to this week's budget deal between Congress and the White House with a sigh of relief. The agreement, approved by the House earlier Wednesday, sets funding levels and extends the government's borrowing limit for two more years, thereby taking the threat of a government shutdown and debt default off the table.

A 2013 budget fight led to a 16-day partial government shutdown that was widely blamed by most economists for sharp drops in consumer and business confidence that dragged on the economy.
___

GEORGE PATAKI: "Hillary Clinton put a server, an unsecure server, in her home as secretary of state. We have no doubt that that was hacked, and that state secrets are out there to the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese and others."

THE FACTS: The former New York governor, speaking in the undercard debate, exaggerated what's actually known about what happened to the emails of Clinton, the Democratic front-runner for her party's presidential nomination. While Clinton's email server was poorly configured and therefore more susceptible to hacking, there is no evidence of intrusion.

The FBI is studying the server, which was subjected to a phishing attack by Russian-linked hackers while she was secretary of state. It's not known whether she clicked on any attachments, which would have exposed her account. Her account was also apparently the subject of cyberattacks originating in China, South Korea and Germany after she left office in early 2013. Determining whether a hack was sponsored by a nation, rather than just originating from that country, is notoriously difficult.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/politics/ar...he-6597069.php

[DMX7]

CARSON: His proposed flat-rate tax, which would have everyone pay an income tax rate of about 15 percent, "works out very well" in budget terms because it would spark enough economic growth to offset the lower rate.


THE FACTS: Carson says his proposed tax would not increase the budget deficit because he would tax the entire economic output of the U.S. — the gross domestic product — plus corporate income and capital gains.

Carson has not laid out a detailed plan, so it is difficult to measure how it would affect revenues or the economy. But based on what he said, he's double counting because corporate revenues are part of the GDP.

A tax rate of 15 percent would be a huge tax cut for the wealthy. The top income tax rate for individuals is now 39.6 percent. The corporate tax rate for corporations is 35 percent.

To help offset the rate cuts, Carson said he would "get rid of all the deductions and all the loopholes." That's a bold proposal, considering how popular many tax breaks are, including deductions for interest on home mortgages and charitable contributions, as well as exemptions for health insurance and retirement savings.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/politics/ar...he-6597069.php

When he first said that, I was thinking the same thing. Even this guy's most simple calculations have multi-billion dollar errors.

[Sportcamper]

Trump is so darn entertaining…He has so frazzled and dismantled Old Jeb aka The Low T Candidate; to the point where Jeb can’t take it & has decided to go for easier targets…Little Marco Rubio’s Senate Voting record…Then Rubio smacked him back so hard! You are only saying that because we are running for the same position and someone told you that it would be a good idea…LMAO!

[Sportcamper]

Christie gets honorable mention…Do you want to answer the question or do you want me to answer the question?…I got to say that this is extremely rude even by New Jersey standards…

[DMX7]

I hope Trump takes on Rubio soon.

[boutons_deux]

[boutons_deux]

The broken logic of last night’s GOP debate: How conservative ideology just tore itself apart

The GOP debate on Wednesday night was a largely snippy affair, with candidates accusing debate host CNBC of making things up until moderators pointed out — as just one example — that candidates had made the same claims on their own websites.

But there was a bright spot:

Basically all of the GOP contenders rested on one particular set of assumptions, and the logical conclusion of those assumptions offers a plan for eliminating some truly horrible things in life, like American military adventurism and Ohio State football.

Candidate after candidate argued we need to get rid of government.

When asked whether government should prevent profiteering pharmaceutical companies, Dr. Ben Carson admitted some companies are not considering patients, but went on to argue that costs come not from greed, but from regulations: “Every single regulation costs in terms of goods and services,” which hurts real people he argued, more than companies who rip off customers.

Government employee Rand Paul said “I want government so small I can barely see it,” which would be easier to do if we eliminated 100 Senators and their staff, including Paul’s. Jeb Bush, the son and brother of former presidents, claimed that DC politicians continue to make things worse.

Two candidates even argued that government caused consolidation in private companies.

In the Kiddie Table debate earlier in the evening, Rick Santorum claimed ObamaCare caused insurance companies to consolidate. While he’s right that the insurance market is dominated by a few players, that was true long before ObamaCare.

Santorum claimed to be a lot less worried about consolidation in the watery beer market because, “There’s no town in American anymore that doesn’t have a brewery.” Given that alcohol is one of the most regulated markets, it’s odd that government involvement hasn’t created dangerous consolidation in bad beer.

Meanwhile, Carly Fiorina claimed that banks consolidate because they are afraid of government. Given that Fiorina herself contributed to the consolidation of the computer industry — but has always given market-based reasons, and not fear of the federal government, for her decision to merge HP with Compaq — that claim is particularly incredible.

Chris Christie, for his part, was outraged that various governments, mostly states, were considering regulating fantasy football companies Fan Duel and DraftKings, and that moderators might ask about regulating it. Christie, the governor of a state with a shrinking gambling industry, made the claim shortly after

Jeb Bush bragged about being 7-0 in his fantasy football league, which was probably Bush’s most successful moment of the night.

Ultimately, though, these candidates were making an argument about the efficacy of government, an argument that is particularly odd from people auditioning to run the entire federal government.

“Every time government gets involved in something,” Fiorina claimed. “It gets worse.”

If Fiorina’s claim, that every time — every single time! — the government gets involved in something it gets worse, then clearly the government should get out of the business of making war, right?

It sounds like a good idea, because government involvement in making war will only make the ability for the U.S. to wage war worse. And without the half a trillion dollars the government spends on war each year, we’d probably have a lot fewer wars.

Of course, Fiorina, who’s a hawk, doesn’t really mean that. But it betrays the inherent illogic of her claim.

But, as someone writing from Michigan, there was actually a bid for privatizing government that would clearly be an improvement. Ohio Governor John Kasich described a number of things his administration privatized. He described that Ohio State University shouldn’t be in the parking business and shouldn’t be in the dining business. His government privatized both those things, making a killing off their sale to private en ies.

The logical consequence of that, of course, would be for Ohio State to privatize some bigger ticket items … such as their #1 ranked football team. Sell it to a billionaire. Pay the athletes. Make OSU play the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns.

Think of the revenue that would bring in for the state! What about the football business, Governor? Willing to privatize that?

Probably, Gov. Kasich would object to such a plan, given his supportive comments about OSU coach Urban Meyer, who has orchestrated the current squad’s success.

Probably, Kasich would insist that OSU football should remain a public good for all in Ohio to share.

It turns out, there are things, like football and war, that even the biggest hater of government — especially the biggest haters of government — wouldn’t want to outsource to private companies.

But none of the candidates on Wednesday night reflected awareness of the absurd implications of their views.

Fiorina and Kasich — really, all of the GOP candidates — claim to be ready to sell off every last bit of the public good. Let’s hope they do it before Michigan’s two best college teams face OSU in the coming weeks, and even better, before the government kills more Americans in another ill-considered war.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/29/the_..._itself_apart/

[Sportcamper]

LMAO@ boutons_deux......Those are all great...Poor Jeb & his creepy warm kiss...

[spurraider21]

The problem with the party is that they think the answer to their problem is to be MORE conservative and to get more conservatives to go out and vote. They need to get on with the times...

[DMX7]

Cruisin USA. That brings me way back.