checks in for Parker in the starting lineup or when Manu runs the point.
A hot topic in this forum is that when "MVPatty" checks in for Parker, he rightfully defers to Kawhi where Parker "freezes" everyone him looking for his. The evidence in support of this idea is citing Kawhi's increased usage alongside Patty, so the logic follows that the overall point guard usage is lower when Patty is in the game and that those additional shots that Parker would be taking are now (rightfully) going to Kawhi. There's also beliefs that Manu looks for Kawhi.
Those ideas is wrong. The PG (e.g. whoever is running the offense, and in many cases it's Manu) usage is nearly the same in a variety of lineups.
Parker's usage in the starting lineup:
Furthermore, Parker is anything but a "detriment" in this lineup. Although he's regressed over the past month, his overall season efficiency is good. He's second among starters in PPS and TS%.
Now for "MVPatty," the willing deferential passer to Kawhi that everyone loves, in the same lineup:
Patty's usage is only 1.9 points lower than Parker's. LMA's usage takes about a 4 point hit, though, so Kawhi's increased usage alongside Patty has more to do with Parker and LMA probably being more active with each other in pick-and-roll sets (Patty can't run the pick-and-roll very well because he can't penetrate) than with Patty being some willing passer and Parker actively freezing Kawhi out to "look for his." That said, that unit has only played 44 minutes together, so let's see some Patty/Kawhi units with a larger sample size:
Yes, Patty's usage is about 5 points lower than Parker's when Parker is in the SL, but in this lineup, Manu is basically the defacto PG and his usage is as nearly as high as Kawhi's! Some might say, "Well, Kawhi's usage increases by 3 points, so..." Of course it's going to since LMA isn't on the floor. So where's the outcry of, "Manu is freezing out Kawhi!"
Here's the lineup in which Kawhi, Manu and Patty have played in the most together:
Another lineup in which Patty is basically an SG with Manu running the offense, and you see Manu's usage is the 2nd highest in the unit. Patty is also the weak link in this lineup with a negative scoring index.
Let's compare that unit to the unit that features Tony, Manu, and Kawhi the most:
Parker's usage is in the same ballpark. Kawhi's does take a hit, but LMA's increases, so again the reason for Kawhi's lower usage here is not because Parker is freezing everyone out to look for his, but because he's getting LMA involved, and any good PG should get their best bigs involved. Furthermore, this lineup is actually statistically better than the lineup above.
tl;dr - What did we learn?
Kawhi's lower usage alongside Tony has everything to do with Tony getting LMA more involved via a two man game rather than Tony freezing Kawhi out. You can clearly see in all lineups that have a decent sample size that LMA's usage always drops when Parker is subbed out. Like I said, Patty can't run a good pick-and-roll because he's not a dribble-drive penetrator, so naturally LMA will get less touches that are now going to Kawhi.
Also, the usage does not change across the board for the player who happens to be running the Spurs offense. When Patty is in without Manu, his usage is nearly the same as Parker's. When Manu is in sans Parker, his usage is within the 20-23 range, roughly the same as Parker and Mills when they're running the offense.
All the evidence seems to point that the PGs (Mills, Parker, Manu) are operating how Pop's wants them to, since these 3 players aren't far apart usage wise when running the offense.
When Porker is in the game, Kawhi is finishing plays when Patty is in the game Kawhi is making plays.
The only time Pop deviates from that is when he yells at his point guards to give the god damn ball to Kawhi & get out his way during crunch time.All the evidence seems to point that the PGs (Mills, Parker, Manu) are operating how Pop's wants them to, since these 3 players aren't far apart usage wise when running the offense.
Parker can't run the PnR because he has the court vision of Stevie Wonder.
Porker getting yelled at to give the ball to kawhi. What kind of other proof do you need op? That got will obviously prefer working with Aldridge cause its either its LA shot or his. Dude needs to call more downscreens play for kawhi in the first.
Short answer, Porker runs sets that result in 12 shots in 45 mins for kawhim hes essentially a re that needs to have his roles significantly diminsed next year or should just retire.
Hes a detriment to this organization because the spurs will never trade him evven though playwise, they should.
If Parker as starter plays a lot more minutes than Patty in playoffs, that means Kawhi doesn't get plays/taking shots for 25/30 minutes because Parker only can play on offense with LMA?
So Kawhi only can get the ball when Parker's on the bench? That's a winning formula...
Parker runs LMA plays because hes essentially the second option in those situations.
Hes a schemming got...he can resort to saying..but i wanted him to get going.
parker schemes to get his..thats who is.
I wonder you don't think that any good PG should get the team-leading scorer and best perimeter player involved, too. Giving him the ball more often and not only play P&Rs with their bigs as the only way to score when he's on the court.
Parker's freezing Kawhi's offense 'cause he's only able to play with LMA...basically this thread said that Parker and Kawhi aren't compatible on the court.
And Parker said he expects to play 5 seasons more...We need to trade Kawhi. Or we need other starting PG who can play with our best player.
Do you know how basketball works? Do I really have to post a 1000 set plays so that you might understand how players typically interact on the floor with each other?
I guess I have to use caps again.
PGS AND SFS RARELY PLAY TWO MAN GAMES WITH EACH OTHER. NO IN' SET, FROM HORNS TO THE TRIANGLE TO MOTION SETS TO IN' OCTOPUS SETS HAVE MORE THAN ONLY A FEW PLAYS AMONG THOUSANDS WHERE THE PG DRIBBLES UP AND THROWS THE BALL TO THE SF
Do you know what a PG's function is? Traditionally, it's to play through a big man. See, PG dribbles ball up. Makes entry pass to big man. Wing players move off ball, either to a spot up position or they cut. Big Man either looks for his shot or passes to an open wing. Do I have to post more in' set plays to show you how 90% of plays start with a PG/Big initiating the offense?
When a PG and SF initiate the offense, the SF usually gives up the ball rather quickly, like in the Spurs various motion backdoor sets:
To play some pnr two man game with Parker and Kawhi would be re ed.
Even if you don't want to play that two-man game, you made a thread to say that Parker-Kawhi aren't compatible on the court, that Parker only can get LMA involved so Kawhi will get the ball just when Parker is on the bench.
The Spurs should trade Kawhi. Or we can find another point guard who plays P&Rs with LMA but also, give Kawhi the ball.Kawhi's lower usage alongside Tony has everything to do with Tony getting LMA more involved via a two man game...LMA's usage always drops when Parker is subbed out...
On topic of sets, The triangle just reminded me how Phil was so dependant on superstars to win games. I've always hated the triangle because it required an elite post up big and a dominant perimter player on the weak side.
It also one of the very sets that can really stagnate if your 5 and 2/3 arent good playmakers. I'm not surprised its hardly used compared to Horns, pinch post etc.
The Horns is by Far the most beautiful set in all of basketball. The amount of offball movement it reguires makes it extrmely difficult to guard. Of course everything is about personel....
I'm surprised the Thunder dont use a lot of pinch post offense with Kanter/Westbrook. They would demolish every team in the 5-6 minutes or so they play together wihtout durant.
I'm bored with all the Tony/Patty crap. I looked at the first graph, and my only thought was, "Danny ing Green"
Jesus, you're the biggest idiot on this forum. Parker and LMA being more compatible with each other than Parker is with Kawhi doesn't automatically ing mean Parker and Kawhi aren't compatible at all.
Fitting you ended that sentence with, "Gib Bawl to Kiwi." Jesus in' Christ, do I have re-emphasize how rare it is in any set for the PG to just dribble the ball up and dump the ball off to the SF? It does happen, but it's usually only the first action in a play, like in those motion sets I posted. Kawhi gets the ball from Tony only to quickly pass it off.
If Kawhi isn't getting the ball enough in LMA/Parker lineups, then the issue is with Pop wanting to establish that two man game over increasing Kawhi's usage. And I don't see a problem considering the Spurs are 65-14. We probably won't beat the Warriors, but it will have nothing to do with Kawhi and his touches, and everything to do with them just being a more talented team.
Solution; Kawhi increasing his ball handling skill and becoming more of a point forward. We won't see a noticeable improvement in that area til next season, so we'll have to live with MVPorker running the SL offense this year.
Yeah, the Triangle needs the correct personnel. Also, all five guys need to be able to pass well. The Spurs might be the only team with the right parts to run it right now, though. Running some triangle sets would put Kawhi is some good spots.
"At all" So cute.
Well, tell me how they're compatible...
If we lose with Parker taking the same or more shots than Kawhi in the series but with lower FG%...I wouldn't say that will have nothing to do with Kawhi being underused in the series.If Kawhi isn't getting the ball enough in LMA/Parker lineups, then the issue is with Pop wanting to establish that two man game over increasing Kawhi's usage. And I don't see a problem considering the Spurs are 65-14. We probably won't beat the Warriors, but it will have nothing to do with Kawhi and his touches, and everything to do with them just being a more talented team.
Look at last game, Kawhi was so effective, 8-12, but Parker took almost the same shots in less minutes and was 3-10, if you don't think we need more offense from the more efficient scorer...
So a PG running the offense can't pass the ball to the leading scorer of the team....
Kawhi has the highest TS%, PPP, PPS among the starting lineup. The Spurs are 65-14, and Kawhi is an MVP candidate. What more do you want? Oh, I know, for Kawhi to dominate the ball like Kobe Bryant and chuck to a sexy PPG.
Tony only took 10 shots and had 2 FTAs. That isn't excessive for a player of his role. You'd have an argument if Tony took 20 shots and Kawhi took 18, but that wasn't the case. So what, you want Tony only taking 4 or 5 shots per game? Instead of blaming Tony here, why don't you blame Kawhi for not taking more shots? Since Tony only took 10 shots, it's not like he was taking all these shots away. Or like I always say, write a letter to Pop and ask him why he limits Kawhi's shot attempts.If we lose with Parker taking the same or more shots than Kawhi in the series but with lower FG%...I wouldn't say that will have nothing to do with Kawhi being underused in the series.
Look at last game, Kawhi was so effective, 8-12, but Parker took almost the same shots in less minutes and was 3-10, if you don't think we need more offense from the more efficient scorer...
Are you really this in' stupid? Show me all the Spurs set plays that feature Tony setting up Kawhi to score? In fact, show me all the basketball plays that feature PGs setting up SFs? There's not many. The only plays I can think off hand would be drive-kick scenarios. And you don't like those because it "parks" Kawhi at the 3 point line.
It's obvious you're a Kawhi fan first. You want the entire team to sacrifice their games to detrimental levels so Kawhi can proverbially "eat more" and dominate the offense like a Kobe or Lebron.
Those numbers just tell us that Kawhi has grown as a complete player and he's so efficient, but don't explain how they're compatible or the interaction between both in the same plays
Since Kawhi plays most minutes with Parker and LMA..."Kawhi's lower usage has everything to do with Tony getting LMA more involved via a two man game...LMA's usage always drops when Parker is subbed out", -Parker taking the same shots than Kawhi when both are on the court, -Spurs trying to slow the pace...Tony only took 10 shots and had 2 FTAs. That isn't excessive for a player of his role. You'd have an argument if Tony took 20 shots and Kawhi took 18, but that wasn't the case. So what, you want Tony only taking 4 or 5 shots per game? Instead of blaming Tony here, why don't you blame Kawhi for not taking more shots? Since Tony only took 10 shots, it's not like he was taking all these shots away. Or like I always say, write a letter to Pop and ask him why he limits Kawhi's shot attempts.
Yeah...I wonder why I don't blame Kawhi.
First, you should show me Parker making an entry pass to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup. That would be a start.
Or Parker giving the ball to Kawhi to close a quarter like Manu or Mills have done it in some games this season...
Expecting that Parker not being a ball hog taking more shots than Kawhi/give Kawhi the ball to get him involved...is "to sacrifice the entire team"It's obvious you're a Kawhi fan first. You want the entire team to sacrifice their games to detrimental levels so Kawhi can proverbially "eat more" and dominate the offense like a Kobe or Lebron.
I don't know what you want. Or what proof you want that they're compatible? Like I've tried to get through your thick in' skull, PGs and SFs don't play 2 man games, so how can there be any "compatibility" issues? If Kawhi isn't performing up to your dumbass standard alongside Tony, then it's something else that is affecting him in that lineup. There's more players on the floor than Tony.
Guess what? When we sub out Boris for Duncan, Kawhi's usage jumps 5 points. So are Duncan and Kawhi not compatible? When we sub out Green for Manu, Tony and Kawhi's usage remains about the same, but Manu eats 5 more usage points than Danny. Why aren't you calling out Manu for being "incompatible?" Oh, and the kicker. When we sub out LMA for West, Parker's usage remains the same, but Kawhi's jumps to 30! If Tony is actively ignoring Kawhi, then why didn't Kawhi's usage stay the same when LMA went out? Or why didn't Tony, the selfish player that he is, eat LMA's usage and take more shots for himself? So are Kawhi and LMA now incompatible?
Yeah, the reason for Kawhi's lower usage alongside Tony and LMA is because Tony TRIES TO GET LMA GOING PER THE GAMEPLAN. And even then, it's not like Kawhi's usage is dangerously low for a player of his caliber.
That said, if you have a problem, send a letter to Pop. He seems to want to establish LMA and Tony, and then bookend that with Kawhi getting going.
Parker isn't a ballhog by any metric known to man, you dumbass.First, you should show me Parker making an entry pass to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup. That would be a start.
Or Parker giving the ball to Kawhi to close a quarter like Manu or Mills have done it in some games this season...
Expecting that Parker not being a ball hog taking more shots than Kawhi/give Kawhi the ball to get him involved...is "to sacrifice the entire team"
And I've shown him making those passes in my first screencap thread. Parker has made multiple passes to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup. But it'll never be the norm like you want it to because coaches don't run many plays for 1-3 two man games. Deal with it.
Of course not
And I've shown him making those passes in my first screencap thread. Parker has made multiple passes to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup. But it'll never be the norm like you want it to because coaches don't run many plays for 1-3 two man games. Deal with it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
