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Good write-up
Didn't feel like Kawhi chose his spots well myself tbh. When it seemed he had a great shot he'd pass it up and end up with a far worse attempt, but at least he took and made most of his wide-open threes.
Overview:
- The Spurs’ second game with their full complement of players ended up as the next in a long line of outings sabotaged by an Amused game thread. Danny Green and Dewayne Dedmon both went out with contusions, though both actually played through the pain for a bit and would have probably been able to go if this were a playoff game. And as I was about to post this we got word that Danny at least is fine. I guess the LDN was too powerful for mortal groin-related concerns.
- On the positive side, this game continued the trend of balanced scoring outings, with four of the Spurs’ starters getting to double figures. Parker, Leonard and especially Gasol were not tremendously efficient, but when you have multiple guys who can get buckets, it just makes things easier for everyone.
- It was nice to see the Spurs outrebound Miami despite the Heat having the best rebounding big in the match and in general more hunger. The team did a great job at gang-rebounding, with guards flying in to tip the ball away from Whiteside and allow the Spurs to close out their possessions.
- Someone needs to send a memo to the Spurs that pocket-passes aren’t working right now. It’s bad enough that they continue to try them with bigs, but I swear those accounted for half their turnovers at least. No one wants to catch passes that are at their ankles while they’re in traffic. It’s ridiculous.
Grades:
Lamarcus Aldridge – B: Dude scored efficiently, which is like 70 percent of the battle for him. He didn’t rebound well, and he had trouble getting his shot off as the game went on, but he contributed and took advantage of being matched up on a smaller man.
Kawhi Leonard – B: Offensively, I liked his game. He still has a ways to go to strike that balance between not being Kobe but also not deferring too much, but right now, he’s avoiding putting unnecessary strain on his body by gunning for big numbers. That allowed him to take over a bit at the end of the game. And if Danny is not going to be healthy, he’ll need that extra energy for defense. He wasn’t all that great at slowing down Waiters in the fourth tonight.
Pau Gasol – B: I think Pau would be very valuable if he can stay in this role as a player who can steady the offense. His midrange shot is great. He rebounded and for the most part stayed in there on multiple defensive series to tip and collect boards. After 10 games, it seems like his A-plus is going to be around 20/10/6 and his A will be like 18/8/4, The efficiency wasn’t great, but a 12/8 game going up against Whiteside is more than good enough for the third option.
Tony Parker – B: This is optimistic, honestly. Getting fourth-option points while running a good floor game to help Kawhi out is all you can ask. I’m hoping this is something sustainable and that he still has another gear he will tap a couple of times before this is done. I admit that I was somewhat distracted during the first-quarter, so I don’t know if Parker’s D was bad there. But overall, I thought it was a solid outing.
Danny Green – INC: This is a little generous, since he seemed ripe for one of his games where he lets a scrub go off against him. One thing I loved was the way he shot his three. Tyler Johnson got around that screen in time to make a solid contest, but Danny’s release was quick, and his aim was true. He needs to keep shooting that way, since the days of him getting 8-10 open, in-rhythm looks from three a game are probably past.
David Lee – B-minus: Nothing remarkable, but he fit in. And he was part of the reason why the Spurs’ rebounding strategy worked. This would have been a B except for the fact that he seemed hesitate to score at times against Miami’s D.
Dewayne Dedmon – C-plus: He rebounded well, even after getting hurt. That’s good. Dude’s going to have to score to get up to an average gram, though. Loved his blocks. He seems to be going through a bit of a rough patch, and I hope he can get through it. Right now, he’s sort of a mess with a couple of good moments.
Patty Mills – B-minus: It’s hard to attack him for a 10/3/3 game off 1.42ppp. But his D wasn’t great at all. He was overmatched against anyone he guarded, and that doesn’t bode well against better compe ion.
Manu Ginobili – B: If he never gets any more of his game back, can Manu just keep being the guy that knocks down crazy threes? He’s been doing it all year. The guy still competes, but he’s probably not going to have more than a handful of great games left. In a game where the Spurs couldn’t stop making stupid passes, he had only two turnovers. That’s a good thing.
Jonathon Simmons – C: I like that the Spurs have someone who’s in their physical prime and knows how to move like a guard. And he competed. But it really wasn’t working for him tonight. He didn’t shoot well and made poor decisions with the ball, despite only having one TO. Getting four rebounds in 22 minutes is very solid, but I didn’t like him on D much at all. It was one of the big reasons why the Heat came back, though he had a good break-up in transition.
Kyle Anderson – INC: Another incomplete that would be a poor grade if it had a larger sample. He won’t get good grades from me if he doesn’t score. I thought his block on Winslow was excellent, though, and his boarding is legit. This is a very interesting stretch for him, as he’s out of the rotation but is probably really close to getting minutes from like three or four players. Gonna be a season-long saga to set the bench.
Dejounte Murray and Davis Bertans – INC: Nothing to say here really. Bertans had a good look that he missed, and Murray had a chance to put the game away with a steal but it didn’t work. Send Murray back to Austin, please.
Last edited by Chinook; 11-15-2016 at 07:56 AM.
Good write-up
Didn't feel like Kawhi chose his spots well myself tbh. When it seemed he had a great shot he'd pass it up and end up with a far worse attempt, but at least he took and made most of his wide-open threes.
Thanks for the grades! We ought to have amused start every game thread until this curse is over. It's unreal. We'll either have every player injured And forfeit games or he makes it out and has a new beginning.
That was my thoughts as well. He is fading a lot and not taking the first option offensively, it's almost if he doesn't realise his ballhandling has improved enough that he gets to spots relatively easily now.Good write-up
Didn't feel like Kawhi chose his spots well myself tbh. When it seemed he had a great shot he'd pass it up and end up with a far worse attempt, but at least he took and made most of his wide-open threes.
Cheers for the grades, I wasn't able to see the whole game so much appreciated.
I have not seen this game but the stats are fine for TP : 11pts 6 AST 3 Rb in 25 mn and +/- +15. It's not bad. I know that stats are only ... stats but TP seems to be more efficient. Do you have an explanation ? or perhaps you are very distracted !
thanks Chinook
I feel like you're holding back on your grades Chinook. Lots of B's and not enough C's. Kawhi had a pretty poor game when he let a flat out scrub go off on him in the fourth (He was a so-called scrub when Tony was guarding him in OKC), turns it over 4 times, shoots below 50% from the floor and was the only starter to have a negative plus minus. I mean, he is the best player on the team so he should be held to a higher standard than say Tony Parker or Pau Gasol.
offense needs to involve pau way more... for stretches in the 2nd half he was the only real steadying hand
Thanks for posting grades Chinook!
To me, the team looked very flat, again, particularly in the second half. It was basically a lack-luster effort against an inferior team. Miami hustled and outworked the Spurs as the game dragged on, and the Spurs team appeared to merely be trying to get the game over with late. This current version of the Spurs needs a lot more work to be post season ready. Luckily there's still 71 games before the playoffs to get things worked out.
Some comments I had on a couple of players:
Tony Parker started out the game well, but seemed to lose a step after he and Simmons collided going for a loose ball...I'm not sure he's not an additional casualty from tonight's game along with Green and Dedmon. But even with his game trailing off the more minutes he played I can see that Tony's still an important piece of the puzzle if the Spurs are to be successful. He can manage the offense when he's on his game much better than Patty Mills can, or by putting that responsibility for running things in Kawhi's hands. I hope he can continue to work towards a healthy comeback.
Kawhi Leonard needs to play within himself. When he doesn't try to do too much on offense he's much more effective. He needs to pick his spots but also look for opportunities for his teammates. You can almost watch the game and know if he's going into an offensive play intending to shoot or pass, much to the detriment of offensive efficiency. His decision-making appears to be somewhat lacking at this point, but hopefully that will continue to evolve as he develops. To me he looked a little gassed at times out there. He was short on some shots, which tells me he didn't have his legs tonight, and although he tried to take over in the 4th, he really wasn't overly effective during our late game collapse.
Pau Gasol continues to impress me with his effort. He definitely takes some plays off on D, but he's not exactly young by NBA standards, so in my book that's almost excusable. I thought he threw his body into the mix pretty hard tonight, and didn't get the benefit of any calls. I was worried when he slammed into the basketball goal support. His mid-range game is great, and I trust his mid-range jumper under pressure more than LMA's at this point. This might be sacrilege to say, but I think we're going to get better production from Pau when we need it, on the offensive side of the ball, than we got from Duncan during his last couple of years in the league. Defense is another story...
Danny Green took a good shot to the upper quad/groin tonight and ended up sitting out the second half. He adds so much to the defense, you can clearly see a drop-off when he's out of the game. Not having him available in the second half against an athletic team like Miami definitely exposed one of the Spurs susceptibilities against younger, speedier talent. I like that Danny's offensive game is almost secondary to the defense he brings to the table. His absence in the second half was dearly missed.
Speaking of drop-off, Kyle Anderson, to me, doesn't appear to be an NBA talent. Comparing him to a young Boris Diaw is an insult to the young Boris Diaw. He gives you the occasional good play on defense, and is smart and almost always in the right position, but he just gets powned sometimes by players with superior athletic talent, aka 95% of the players in the NBA. I like KA. I've been one of those folks anticipating and hoping to see him get to the next level in his evolution, but I'm beginning to think we see his ceiling...and that ceiling requires you to stoop low...no, make that crawl, in order to get through. I don't see him ever contributing at a high level to an NBA contender. NBA starter material? No. NBA bench material? No. NBDL all-star? Maybe. WNBA all-star? Absolutely.
Jonathon Simmons is another guy that sometimes gets exposed when faced with young, athletic NBA talent, but for different reasons than Kyle Anderson. Simmons relies on his athleticism in order to be successful. He can 'out-athletic' a lot of NBA players, but he gets nullified by other athletic players. I am always shocked when the NBA's no-names can neutralize JS, but then he'll look great against some of the superstars. His good and bad games seem totally random at times. I think he'll continue to have those good games occasionally, but drop stink bombs just as often. Tonight, in my opinion, was one of those stink-bomb games. If he and KA could just morph into one player we might just have ourselves a really solid NBA talent. As it is we have one good role player and one future all-star (for the Phoenix Mercury).
I don't have much to add on LMA, Manu or Patty. I thought all had decent games, especially LMA early on, but their games weren't particularly memorable. LMA might get a B for his great first half shooting, but his game really fell off late. Not sure he's in the best shape yet. Manu continues to play well and I hope Pop just plans to keep those minutes around 12-15 a night because I think he'll be most effective in that playing range. As for Patty, he hit his shots but didn't manage the offense very well. I was actually rooting for Tony to come back in a take over, as the offense looked much more crisp with him in there. Patty and Tony playing together late was an interesting move by Pop I thought. By interesting I mean not good.
Anyway, I must have been in the mood to bust out a long post...just my additions to the player commentary.
Nice job again, Chinook!
Last edited by Ed Helicopter Jones; 11-15-2016 at 05:20 AM.
Thanks for the added insight. Didn't notice that Parker/Simmons collision, but I did notice Parker going to the locker room and coming back in the third quarter. ing Amused. Also, Simmons didn't have a great game, but he is steadily becoming more consistent. I agree on the athleticism thing and made a not of it during the two-game stint with the Jazz earlier in the season: he could hang with the likes of Shelvin Mack bug got his pushed in by the more athletic Rodney Hood. Luckily he's beginning to get better on both ends when he can't overwhelm with his athleticism, so we'll see where that takes him. I feel much, much better about Simmons' prospects in the NBA than I did in the preseason.Thanks for posting grades Chinook!
To me, the team looked very flat, again, particularly in the second half. It was basically a lack-luster effort against an inferior team. Miami hustled and outworked the Spurs as the game dragged on, and the Spurs team appeared to merely be trying to get the game over with late. This current version of the Spurs needs a lot more work to be post season ready. Luckily there's still 71 games before the playoffs to get things worked out.
Some comments I had on a couple of players:
Tony Parker started out the game well, but seemed to lose a step after he and Simmons collided going for a loose ball...I'm not sure he's not an additional casualty from tonight's game along with Green and Dedmon. But even with his game trailing off the more minutes he played I can see that Tony's still an important piece of the puzzle if the Spurs are to be successful. He can manage the offense when he's on his game much better than Patty Mills can, or by putting that responsibility for running things in Kawhi's hands. I hope he can continue to work towards a healthy comeback.
Kawhi Leonard needs to play within himself. When he doesn't try to do too much on offense he's much more effective. He needs to pick his spots but also look for opportunities for his teammates. You can almost watch the game and know if he's going into an offensive play intending to shoot or pass, much to the detriment of offensive efficiency. His decision-making appears to be somewhat lacking at this point, but hopefully that will continue to evolve as he develops. To me he looked a little gassed at times out there. He was short on some shots, which tells me he didn't have his legs tonight, and although he tried to take over in the 4th, he really wasn't overly effective during our late game collapse.
Pau Gasol continues to impress me with his effort. He definitely takes some plays off on D, but he's not exactly young by NBA standards, so in my book that's almost excusable. I thought he threw his body into the mix pretty hard tonight, and didn't get the benefit of any calls. I was worried when he slammed into the field goal support. His mid-range game is great, and I trust his mid-range jumper under pressure more than LMA's at this point. This might be sacrilege to say, but I think we're going to get better production from Pau when we need it, on the offensive side of the ball, than we got from Duncan during his last couple of years in the league. Defense is another story...
Danny Green took a good shot to the upper quad/groin tonight and ended up sitting out the second half. He adds so much to the defense, you can clearly see a drop-off when he's out of the game. Not having him available in the second half against an athletic team like Miami definitely exposed one of the Spurs susceptibilities against younger, speedier talent. I like that Danny's offensive game is almost secondary to the defense he brings to the table. His absence in the second half was dearly missed.
Speaking of drop-off, Kyle Anderson, to me, doesn't appear to be an NBA talent. Comparing him to a young Boris Diaw is an insult to the young Boris Diaw. He gives you the occasional good play on defense, and is smart and almost always in the right position, but he just gets powned sometimes by players with superior athletic talent, aka 95% of the players in the NBA. I like KA. I've been one of those folks anticipating and hoping to see him get to the next level in his evolution, but I'm beginning to think we see his ceiling...and that ceiling requires you to stoop low...no, make that crawl, in order to get through. I don't see him ever contributing at a high level to an NBA contender. NBA starter material? No. NBA bench material? No. NBDL all-star? Maybe. WNBA all-star? Absolutely.
Jonathon Simmons is another guy that sometimes gets exposed when faced with young, athletic NBA talent, but for different reasons than Kyle Anderson. Simmons relies on his athleticism in order to be successful. He can 'out-athletic' a lot of NBA players, but he gets nullified by other athletic players. I am always shocked when the NBA's no-names can neutralize JS, but then he'll look great against some of the superstars. His good and bad games seem totally random at times. I think he'll continue to have those good games occasionally, but drop stink bombs just as often. Tonight, in my opinion, was one of those stink-bomb games. If he and KA could just morph into one player we might just have ourselves a really solid NBA talent. As it is we have one good role player and one future all-star (for the Phoenix Mercury).
I don't have much to add on LMA, Manu or Patty. I thought all had decent games, especially LMA early on, but their games weren't particularly memorable. LMA might get a B for his great first half shooting, but his game really fell off late. Not sure he's in the best shape yet. Manu continues to play well and I hope Pop just plans to keep those minutes around 12-15 a night because I think he'll be most effective in that playing range. As for Patty, he hit his shots but didn't manage the offense very well. I was actually rooting for Tony to come back in a take over, as the offense looked much more crisp with him in there. Patty and Tony playing together late was an interesting move by Pop I thought. By interesting I mean not good.
Anyway, I must have been in the mood to bust out a long post...just my additions to the player commentary.
Nice job again, Chinook!
Thanks guys for the contribution and thanks Chinook for the grades, it's great for us busy euros to wake up and read this kind of analysis after each Spurs game
TP has played very well the past 2 games.
Agreed. It's games like these that make me think his production woes are a confidence or calibration thing. I mean he gets good looks. He's like the fourth option so he'll get open looks, it's just about knocking them down. If he can learn to be aggressive without hero balling, then he could prove some use the team.
Absolutely, I think both him and Manu still have something left in the tank and in the last few games they've showed they're adjusting to what clearly is a diminished role (Tony is now the fourth option on offense, Manu's playing just 15 MPG with Danny back and that's what he can give us at 39), the point is if somebody can pick up the slack constantly and do what they can't do anymore
If Leonard improves his passing game (which is the only aspect where he currently lacks something) and Mills, Simmons and Anderson all show they can contribute night in and night out we'll be alright with Tony running the offense a scoring 9-10 pts a night efficiently and Manu defending well and knocking down a few threes with the odd penetration here and there and the usual playmaking, if that doesn't happen we won't be good enough to at least contend come playoff time
Explanation for what?
Nah he always plays well early in the season or after rests
For me, the grades are more based on where they are going rather than where they are. Leonard pressing less is a good thing, especially considering he was able to take over at the end. Waiters going off on the Spurs is almost expected at this point. The dude was unconscious toward the end. Dunno if anyone would have prevented that.
A little contradiction between the grade,the comment and the stats but perhaps you are right. It will be interesting to know what is good what is bad actually with TP. TP seems to be on the good way but I don't see the last games. What do you think ?
Good stuff! Thanks Chinook! I particularly like the LMA grade. If the game ended at halftime he'd get an A+ but he didn't get a point in the second half and his D isn't good enough to float an A rating or greater. It's definitely disappointing to see a max player completely vanish during games so consistently.
I never said Tony was bad. I was he was good and that I gave him a B because I was being optimistic on his future. These grades reflect how players perform relative to their expectations. If 10/6/3 is essentially just a base hit for Tony, he'll be a contributor. Had I given that an A, that would imply that I didn't think he'd be able to replicate this consistently. I'm hoping he will be.
In general, that's why so many guys got Bs. I think they worked well together. Had Danny been healthy and not have fallen off like I feared and Mills, Dedmon and Simmons played B games, they would have blown the Heat out, and every one would be happy.
Thanks for the write-up for us out of town fans who don't see the games.
I think with Simmons for most of his pre NBA and NBAdl experience he was simple able to out class the opposition with either athletic prowess or with skill, so when he started to face players with asuch athletic ability and skills to match he basically panicked and tried to out speed them. He is starting to overcome that but still hasn't really figured out how to deal with opponents that are equal or superior to him.
Thanks for the grades man
I think Dedmon deserves a better grade (a B or something) because I felt that his impact defensively and in terms of rebounds was great when he was on the floor (not when he was limping obviously).
Other than that I agree. LMA was getting shots and so was Pau. I still feel that our front-court is soft. We struggle against athletic guys and at some point Miami was driving to the basket and scoring at will.
Also saw A LOT OF sloppy passes that caused some dumb TOs, especially from Leonard and Pau. This team definitely needs an young athletic BIG that can rebound and block shots.
Manu looks perfect in a 15 MPG role, so far..on nights where he's off and Green is on, I wouldn't mind lowering it to 10, too..he's at the point where the more he plays, the worse he looks, which is natural at this point in his career..
Ideally, Tony would only play 20 MPG, too, but there's no alternative..as I've been saying since last year, you can hate him all you want, but this roster is built to have him play a major role..
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