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IMO If the Saints come and the Spurs go This Town will be the losers. This town does not have "enough avid NFL Football fans to support a non-winner" i.e. Check out the mass-exodus of Cowboy fans from the area a few years ago.
Buck Harvey: How winners could lose out: Spurs vs. Saints
Web Posted: 10/13/2005 12:00 AM CDT
San Antonio Express-News
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....17da6279.html
The Saints will play in a full Alamodome Sunday, and this is another signal for Tom Benson. If 100 percent show up to see Michael Vick play at 50 percent, doesn't the math make relocation more promising?
Standing in the back of the crowd, more confused than excited, is a group that wonders if anyone is crunching the numbers. The Spurs won't say it publicly, because they know how it would look. But most in the organization know how hard they have had to work to sell the most successful franchise in sports in recent years, and they know about the pieces of this market pie.
They don't think two teams can make it in this city, not right now, and they have reason to be concerned.
The Spurs, not the Saints, would face the worst of this.
The Spurs' front office people have a territory to protect, all right. They also think the market might grow enough in the next 10 to 15 years to support both the NBA and the NFL.
But today? The Spurs know what they've done, and what they've had to sell. They were first blessed with David Robinson, then Tim Duncan, now Manu Ginobili. They've been lucky to market first-tier talent and first-class people.
Three championships? That ought to be worth a sold-out building every night.
But as one within the organization said Wednesday, using language that fits the sport, "nothing has been a slam dunk." These are the best of times for the Spurs, and yet marketing the team still requires the best from the sales force. The Spurs didn't come close to selling out every game last season, and they don't think they will this year, either.
Even though the Spurs draw massive television numbers and they draw the city together every spring, the attention doesn't necessarily e at the box office. They make do by pairing together suite partners, by offering various ticket specials and by tapping into generous deals with sponsors.
The Spurs, a smaller NBA market, rank among the top five in the league in sponsorship money.
It's a formula built on hard work and good fortune, and it's a formula that Gary Woods knows well. He was the president of the franchise when Red McCombs owned the Spurs, and he's familiar enough with the books to wonder what would happen if the Saints relocate here.
He's not optimistic. "We had to hustle and scrap to make it," Woods said last week.
The Saints would have to hustle, too, and they would have a few things on their side. One would be the euphoria that would come when the NFL finally arrived in South Texas.
Remember the meeting Benson had with an overflowing room of San Antonio businesspeople earlier this fall? They would be ready to commit as sponsors — out of civic pride as much as anything — to make this happen.
The excitement would also cover up a few flaws, namely with the football team itself. As the Saints reminded everyone last week, they are still the Saints.
They lost to a previously winless team by 49 points, fitting for a franchise that needed 20 years to win more than they lost in a season. The Saints have won just one playoff game in their history, and, after losing their star runner last week, they shouldn't count on winning another this year.
They are the Clippers of football. That's a drastic contrast to the franchise already in town — the Patriots of basketball.
But the Saints would come with an inherent advantage. Whereas the Spurs try to sell a season-ticket package of about 45 games, the Saints can ask for less. Their usual home schedule is about 10 games, including exhibitions, and the majority of families can afford that.
That's why the Saints would likely do well here initially. But the losses would add up, and the Saints would eventually need to do more than show up. They would need to win, too, if just to lessen the Cowboys' popularity in the area.
The Spurs win already, but this can't last forever. Someday Duncan will retire, and another 7-foot savior might not appear.
And if the Saints are here? If sponsors are dividing their investments? If the Spurs are selling less of a product than they are selling now?
Crunch those numbers.
IMO If the Saints come and the Spurs go This Town will be the losers. This town does not have "enough avid NFL Football fans to support a non-winner" i.e. Check out the mass-exodus of Cowboy fans from the area a few years ago.
So when a team not even from San Antonio gets a 22 share, that doesn't show avid NFL football fans?
I didn't think "sell-outs" always equaled "success" in the NBA.
Didn't the Kings have one of the longest streaks for selling out yet they can't even get a new arena and will most likely relocate.
And as for most hollywood movies, even if they tank at the theaters, most/a lot make up with DVD sales.
The Spurs may not sell out every game of the season but how do you measure the highest ratings for an NBA team, how do you measure thousands of fans waiting at the airport after wins and losses in the playoffs?
San Antonio 41 games 750,970 attendance 99.0% capacity.
99% doesn't count as close?
Exactly.
In terms of percentage:
The SBC was:
6th in 2003 (first year)
4th in 2004 (Up .4 for the previous year)
5th in 2005 (Best percentage at 99%)
2002-03 97.0%
2003-04 97.4%
2004-05 99.0% only Dallas, Miami, Detroit and Sac were 100%.
What? You mean LA and New York and Chicago and Philly with their HUGE populations couldn't get better percentages?
Maybe the percentage would be much lower if you subtract the ticket specials and sponsorship deals.They make do by pairing together suite partners, by offering various ticket specials and by tapping into generous deals with sponsors.
Not really.
I would be more interested to know what the total revenue from ticket sales is for each team.
Buck sure is a BuzzKill.
I disagree with one of the points he was making...
The Spurs are not good at marketing themselves on the bigstage, and they never, ever have been, IMO.
With the exception of one brief period in the 80's they have never marketed themselves in Austin. I think they might rank 8th in popularity in Austin among the Texas sports franchises(to be fair they do show the Spurs games here over Rockets and Mavs, usually, but it would change in a second if the Spurs weren't winning)...Right after all the Dallas and Houston teams(and UT)...they have never done much to capture their surrounding market outside of SA, they have never done anything to capature the Austin market, other than holding a few exhibition games here 15 years+ years ago.
As brilliant as the Spurs have been, in terms of winning, for virtually all of their history...they have been lousy at marketing...
There is no Tex Scrammm in the Spurs history...so I don't think the Spurs lack of popularity is all due to the citizens of this area, a lot of it has to do with the Spurs just being marketing re s...It's amazing how naive they are, it's almost like they think the all the Cowboys had to do to becomes so popular was to win, and it's equally amazing how they are squandering this once in a lifetime opportunity to build a worldwide dominating fan base....
Knew this was coming. The Mouthpiece speaks... The Saints would only be playing 8 regular season home games. If the Spurs can't compete with that, they need a new staff. WTF?
I thought the Spurs had a sales team and office in Austin over off of Congress, kinda close to Sixth Street.
To add to that they haven't even marketed the Victoria's, the Laredo's , the Brownsville-McAllen's and the Corpus' of Texas. They have super loyal fan bases in those areas, and other than a preseason game (once in a blue moon). The Spurs office hasn't done much to promote the team down here. The Rockets are scheduled to play in Corpus next preseason when this area is something on the order of 70+ percent silver blooded. But guess what.. all those children going to such games are then likely to embrace the Rockets.
I was surprised to see the Larry O'Briens come into town... but they were brought in by a lady and some security guards... It would have been amazing to have someone like Sean Marks or Barry down presenting them to town... That's the sort of thing that will make a lasting impression on a child and generate your fan base.
exactly.
You make a great point here. I always wondered why they wouldn't put Austin a top priority. There is a good Spurs Fan base (say 40-50% of Bball fans) although I ran into Rockets fans very often. They could try having specials for Austin fans (like weekend specials with attractive offers, good transport facility to/from SBC center etc..)
Businesswise too it make sense to take a pie out big corporates' allocation to sports/advt.
IMO, it's still not too late for Spurs to build a base here - They have a very good chance of doing it in the next 4-5 yrs. It takes a long time before the fan base gets eroded (Read Rockets' fans in Austin).
Heaven forbid that the marketing and sales people for the franchise would actually have to perform WORK to promote their product in the community.
Heaven forbid that the marketing and sales people for the franchise would actually have to perform WORK to promote their product in the community.
Getting past the sarcasm it is a very true point and the reason why they fail.
Look at attendence in the mid to late 80's.
It was around 50-60%.
This city does not have the money to support a loser team.
Every city supports a winner...that is nothing to brag about.
You measure it by looking at the number of TV households, average per capita income, yearly spending by certain categories, etc...in the market.
You are right on one count though. Game attendance doesn't mean as much to franchise viability as some think. That is of even greater import in the NFL.
Austin's full of transplants. It may be an hour away from SA but the distance is far greater, if you know what I mean.
Truer words have never been spoken. It's another world.
There were many playoff teams who didn't even get 90% capacity last year. (Houston had 88%, Philadelphia had 85%, Boston had 81%, and New Jersey had 75%) Yeah, the Spurs may not sold out last year, but they were pretty damn close.
Anyway, the Spurs have what any team wants, their own arena and luxury boxes. They're not going anywhere.
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