not trolling, but i have always had a question when it pertains to my favorite player ever Manu Ginobili, He was the reason i started watching the NBA in 2003-2004 season. I remmeber vividly their was a segment on the now defunct " NBA Inside Stuff", when mr. ahmad rashad was talking about how to defend ginobili's eurostep, it was a revolutionary move at the time that had me geeked whenever he did it.
Ok back to the point, my main question is do you believe that Ginobili would have been as good as current James Harden if he was allowed to have his own team, say the atlanta hawks or milwaukee bucks who were lacking stars at the time. I remmeber when Ginobili scored 46 on Lebron it was an amazing performance. And who could forget the game againist the suns when he had 48 with bill walton in awe.
Also pardon me for my english, its not the best
Different eras. In this era, he'd be up there (not sure if he'd be as durable since he risked his body far more than Harden ever has). Fifteen years ago, however, I think he'd only get his team into the playoffs each year. Back then it was still a league dominated by big men.
No. Not nearly as durable and not as talented as Harden but could've been a 20/5/5 guy for multiple seasons but probably would've maxed out at 68 games a year.
In his prime he was about a top 5 for sure top 10 player in the league. The problem was his slightly wreckless style of play and his commitment to his country in the offseason. He was not durable. In a single playoff series or for the a season's worth of playoffs he would be just as good as Harden. Harden still has a lot to prove in the playoffs but we can be assured he is also a beast. Harden has more skill and a better body but Ginobili has more heart and mental toughness. Harden also has benefited so much from these NBA ticky tack foul calls and changing of the travel rules. IF were going by early 2000's rules, I'm taking Ginobili in a playoff series. In today's NBA I'm taking Harden.
Ginobili is a top 3 SG of his generation and a 4 time champion. So yes.
Bingo.
If Manu had been the #1 option on his own team, I think he would've been right up there with Wade and just a notch below Kobe. He could've easily been that 25/10 kinda player if he started on another team, and we all know Manu was a of a compe or and clutch as they come. He also probably would've lasted 5 less years and be a few rings shorter.
That said...Wade still spent most of his career in the shadow of other bigmen like Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, and to a lesser extent, Lebron.
Even Kobe needed his Shaq or Gasol to win on the biggest stage...and let's face it, Kobe would've just been another name in the NBA history books if he hadn't won 5 les with that help.
Also, even though Manu was somewhat of a European pioneer on the art of selling fouls (a.k.a. flopping)...I still don't see him getting the ridiculous 15-25 FTAs Harden is getting these days. The current rule changes have put a premium on protecting guards and neutering post play, and that's why we find ourselves in this new NBA landscape. A prime Manu might stand a chance in being like Harden in tdays NBA, but he played in a different time.
Manu was every bit as talented as Harden, not to mention a much better defender. Just nowhere near as durable.
Manu is already better than that no defense playing, stat padding flopper. RS stats are nice and all but manu has performed on the biggest stage against some of the toughest defenses ever. Let me know when hardens season DOESN'T end in some kind of choke or embarrassing fashion in the playoffs
In which aspects is Ginobili not as talented as Harden?
In answer to the OP: the only question is the durability aspects, which, imho, has always been overblown with Ginobili. The dude played 21 seasons as a professional and had like one or two trully serious injuries.
In terms of talent, leadership, intangibles and any other category you want to consider he was more than up to the task of being a franchise player.
Ginobili would have a field day in today's no contact allowing NBA.
Durability is an odd criterion in this discussion. I think of durability as toughness over time. Manu played with such passion and abandon and threw his body around so much that I think of him as exceptionally durable. The fact that he played that way his entire career speaks volumes about his durability. What has Harden ever done to demonstrate durability? Even if your definition of durability emphasizes longevity over toughness, Harden hasn't even been around that long.
In any era, in my schoolyard I pick Harden for my team long before I pick Harden. Winner over loser.
Manure was decent but nowhere near James Hardon level
Please stop
Doubtful that Manu could ever become today's Harden.
Harden sacrifices all other aspects of his game so he can score as much as possible.
Manu was a total basketball player and just couldn't do what Harden does (but his teams had a higher ceiling).
Manu played defense.
I think his career would have been like Dwayne Wade highs, but with a shorter prime, and lower lows. I think he would have been out of the league four years earlier if not for the Spurs.
Manu was a great player. I would never say anything was beyond his reach, tbh.
Think of what Manu would have done if he had played with the other two of the Big 3 as a starter. In the meantime, we only have some stats such as:
Top 5 SG of all-time
Win Shares/48
1-Jordan - .250
2-West - .213
3-Ginobili - .190
BPM
1-Jordan - 8.09
2-Drexler - 5.98
3-Ginobili - 4.95
Championships
1-Jordan - 6
2-Bryant - 5
3-Ginobili - 4
You might consider that the players ahead of him were both starters and played more minutes =EVEN MORE STATS.
Ball handling
Exactly. Also the kind of Manu's passes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harden's.
Harden is a good passer in pick and rolls situations but Manu was a fantastic playmaker.
Harden has better handles, but he gets aways with traveling so there's that. That's honestly the only area he is better than a prime Ginobili.
talent wouldn't be the reason why manu can't replicate harden's success. it's purely durability. harden has proven he has it, manu never did.
manu's career high in minutes per game was just north of 31. in the playoffs he's gone as high as averaging 35. during his peak, his usage rate topped out around 27-28%
meanwhile, harden's MPG since joining the rockets: 38, 38, 37, 38, 36.5, 35.5, 37 and hasn't suffered a significant injury during that stretch. his minutes have also increased in the playoffs, averaging over 40 minutes in a couple of runs. his usage rate since joining the rockets: 29, 28, 31, 32.5, 34, 36, 40
He doesn't shoot enough 3s for him to score like harden. He also was hurt too much to be on that level. There's no way he would've won an MVP. Yet I still rather have him than harden bc Gino actually played defense and would go into the teeth of the biggest and baddest of the NBA. Imagine harden against 05 pistons? Lol dude would be crying. Harden is a regular season offensive minded try hard who shrinks in the playoffs while Gino raised his game in the playoffs (except 2013). If you needed a game winning steal or block or charge then you were glad to have Ginobili but if you needed a missed step back 3 then you choose harden.
in his prime, if he played in this era for D'Antoni who's system pads your stats, would be the clear #1 option of his team and allowed to travel by taking 3 steps he would be better than Harden, simply because Manu is clutch and plays defense. Harden is only ahead of him when it comes to bending the NBA rules
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