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$5.9 Trillion, and nobody asked how we would pay for it -- , Bush passed a tax cut on top and Obama extended it.
I think it goes without saying that the economic fallout from the virus is illustrating how important social safety nets are (and how useless privatized healthcare is at dealing with crisis), as politicians scramble to find trillions in order to prop up the economy. But what if we already had a healthy reserve of multiple trillions as a kind of defacto national "rainy day" fund to deal with unforeseen recessions and depressions?
The total cost of the Iraq and Afghan wars was 5.9 trillion. The former war was completely unjustified, while the length of the latter was completely unjustified. If we started this rainy day fund in 2000, we might've been able to better cushion ourselves against the 2008 crisis and/or have a couple extras trillion lying around to use as stimulus. In any event, the real crux of the problem is how much we spend yearly on defense relative to our GDP vs. other developed countries. Defense spending is 3.2 percent of our 20 trillion dollar GDP, which amounts to about 700 billion per year. If we cut that down to 2 percent, which is in the range of our allies, that frees up an extra 300 billion per year. If this was a program that had gone into effect after the 2008 crisis, we'd have around an extra 2 trillion in reserves, possibly more if those trillions were invested in some fashion (maybe in gold).
To touch on few other things. Stock buy backs should be illegal, as they were pre-Reagan. Many of these multibillion dollar corporations, who totally achieved what they did through hard work and bootstrap individualism, used their tax cuts to buy back stock (and not create jobs) and ride the bull market to more profits their workers will never see. Now that the market is imploding, they're asking for multibillion dollar handouts. We're essentially bailing out gambling addicts. How many conservatives would cry foul if they knew people who receive welfare are taking it to the casino? Same exact thing.
I can hear the conservative rebuttal to this idea in the form of, "It's up to you to save your money, not the government. Why should MY TAXES go into a collective rainy day fund when I'm PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE enough to save my money for situations like this." Well, proof is in the pudding. You can choose to remain self-righteous about how responsible you are or face the fact that many small businesses are getting/going to get hammered, because small business owners don't always necessarily have the luxury of "saving," when they need all the capital they can in order to keep the doors open. Low wage workers are in a similar boat as small business owners. Paycheck-to-paycheck existence that doesn't allow them the same financial la ude.
To echo my first point, if this crisis doesn't wake up stubborn conservatives to the importance of social safety nets (which, under my idea, won't call for new taxes), I don't know what will.
$5.9 Trillion, and nobody asked how we would pay for it -- , Bush passed a tax cut on top and Obama extended it.
But conservatives and Trump supporters only want socialism for billionaires and corporations. Tax cuts for the rich only.
America would be risking its hold of global dominance if they're to do that.
I think we all know what matters more for them judging by the spending etc
I disagree that it's bailing out gambling addicts. The ones at the top are going to eventually profit from this whole debacle. In fact, I'd be surprised if they're not already hedged and either 1) substantially mitigated their losses or 2) actually made some profit. These people have access to the best data, analysts, systems, etc. At the end of the day, they'll have the same amount of shares (or more) as well as made money through market shorts or puts on stocks/indexes. All they have to do is wait it out.
Yes, and each with a portion of the $60 billion in hand can now (((((((((relax))))))))) while they (wait it out). It ain't no fun worrying while waiting. It's almost fun, it is fun when you have (money from home) while you're waiting.
According to CNN/MSM we've been risking that hold since 20 January 2017.
Yep. Just more concentration of wealth. Will be devastating to those trying to retire while the 1% will use the opportunity to ac ulate more shares sold out of panic and/or necessity.
...yes, and that is where meaness is manifested & tragically shown. They will not be told (no). "I'm taking the hand out, using it, yes, for the common good, gd it, but, I'm also salting (a portion) with my/our the other salted accounts."
It's gonna be devestating for the middle class...businesses can cut losses for a few months but eventually they are gonna downsize...we are all gonna have to settle for the new reality...lower wages, less credit, much higher unemployment and little to no equity for most...all that is gonna vanish...cash will be king
Yes, but, you can't spy (eventually)...concentrate with all your might & power on "a few months" while you keep Americans whole & hunt Corona. Hunt with everything you've got, like He hunted the Stock Market with everything he had.
He took pride in the hunt of the DOW. Boundless pride & joy. Turn that pride & joy onto the hunt of Corona. He did it one way. Now, this is the only way.
This whole episode is going to expose the seedy underbelly of our late-stage capitalist system.
Those companies have done nothing but enrich the management of those companies.
If you want stock buy backs ever again, no bail outs. If you take the taxpayers money... you don't get to do that ever again.
Bend over, RG. I'll show you a in' seedy underbelly.
It's not capitalism that's a problem. It's neo-capitalism, where money is put on a pedestal, way above country.
I get so tired of hearing these oligarchs (you know who they are, and that includes members of Congress) fill their mouths about America the great! exceptionalism! patriotism!, but they're first in line to park their earnings overseas and needy Americans in the process, purchase politicos to all of us so they can make an extra buck, continue to peddle like trickle down while they're the only few racking it up, etc.
When really hits the fan, none of these guys show up to lend a hand. They're first in line to get the best treatment and take care of their own. They conveniently develop bone spurs... disgusting.
It's the hard working American that goes out there and gets the job done. The soldier that, sadly, once retired ends up living on foodstamps. The teacher that has to stick around and save the kids because there's a monster shooting people up. The PA that has to pretend to be a doctor and go out there and take care of the sick,t a great personal risk.
There's a lot of rethinking to do alright. There's nothing good about a crisis like this, but it's always a good reminder we're all in this together, and we're much stronger that way.
Look at Trash's budgets, every year
"as promised on his campaign",cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc, etc, and $10Bs more for the MIC
Citizens "rethinking these ins utions" is irrelevant.
Citizens are disenfranchised effectively by the BigDollar corruption rampant in the political class.
Politicians do what BigDollar pays them to do, or not do.
Citizens' "re-thinking" preferences are ignored.
The FFs, for all their now-horrible faults, knew that a mortal threat to their new Republic would come from the business sector.
The bogus "Boston tea party" was white guys dressed up as red guys throwing tea overboard that belonged to monopolist East India Company, granted a monopoly on colonial tea sales by the British govt aka corrupt Parliament+King George.
Last edited by boutons_deux; 03-19-2020 at 07:39 AM.
Agree with that. I think the best model is capitalism to generate the wealth and then taxation to redistribute it, as has pretty much been the case throughout the West's modern history. To beat a dead horse, our problem is we don't tax those oligarchs enough because we collectively still believe in the "job creator" and "bootstraps" myth for some reason.
When really starts hitting the fan, I hope we as a people start calling out the billionaire and hundred millionaire class to start cutting 10 and 9 figure checks, and if they don't, take them to task through boycotts. I'm sure you know about NBA players like Giannis and Kevin Love donating 100K to help arena workers? Many owners still haven't stepped up. Wes Edens did, but only matched Giannis's contribution. I found that rather insulting. He's worth in' 2.9 billion. Let's put his "generosity" into context. He donated .000034 of his net wealth to the cause. That's like someone worth 500,000, which is probably what your average upper-middle class family has in total assets (house, cars, savings, etc), donating 17.00
Last edited by midnightpulp; 03-19-2020 at 09:34 AM.
Dale I don't want to derail the conversation but were you able to put away a reasonable supply of coffee?
Enjoying a cup as we speak?
I'm a-brewin.
If I see two checks for 2K each, it's all going into the stock market. House money.
These same Americans hoard from each other, content that their irrational fear is salved by the 400 rolls of toilet paper and 200 bottles of hand sanitizer even if it means many other people will do without. It's a national trademark to be greedy.
Yeah, I have a decent supply. I still haven't had my first cup yet this morning and am looking forward to it, Fabbs.
Bend over, I'll put some Folgers in your in' cup.
Grim, but, true.
Certainly discouraging, and part of the problem is to chalk it up to "well, everyone does it". Like I said, lots of rethinking to do.
It's almost as if everyone acting in his own self interest doesn't lead to optimal outcomes.
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