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  1. #1
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Patrick Williams

    College: Florida State
    Position: PF/SF(?)
    Age: 19
    Height: 6-foot-8
    Weight: 225 pounds
    Draft Range: 6 to 16

    Why: Perfect frame for modern day wing. Already really strong. Good instincts and basketball IQ for being one of the youngest players in the draft. His shooting touch is promising (83.8% at the line, 32% from three). High character.

    Why Not: Came off the bench, averaged only 22.2 minutes per game and yet his efficiency still wasn't too impressive. Slow-ish release on jumper. Su iously underwhelming rebounder for size and strength. Might be too bulky to be a full-time perimeter player; may need to slim down a little bit.

    Spurs Fit: Williams is raw enough that a full year in Austin would do him good. By his second year, he should be getting minutes at both forward spots.

    Spurs Comparison - Ceiling: Poor Man's Kawhi Leonard

    Spurs Comparison - Floor: Bobby Simmons

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    Last edited by timvp; 6 Days Ago at 02:31 PM.

  2. #2
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    Porn man's Kawhi? Oh man, that's sexy.

  3. #3
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I really don't want a raw player. I don't need a guy to be a realized star or anything, but most teams seem able to give their lotto picks minutes right out of the gate. If you draft Williams, teach him how to hit threes from the corner and have him come off the bench next to Gay until he gets his feet under him so you can start him for Lyles. Austin's fine for some players, but it's not a place legit prospects should go. The Spurs aren't a contender anymore and can afford to let young guys learn on the job.

  4. #4
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    De he grow the past year? Can he grow more, he's still young? Looks like a bit of a tweener.

  5. #5
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    Bounce & Brains: The Off-Ball Movement that Helps Make FSU's Patrick Williams So Good



    https://www.si.com/college/fsu/baske...deo-highlights

  6. #6
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    I really don't want a raw player. I don't need a guy to be a realized star or anything, but most teams seem able to give their lotto picks minutes right out of the gate. If you draft Williams, teach him how to hit threes from the corner and have him come off the bench next to Gay until he gets his feet under him so you can start him for Lyles. Austin's fine for some players, but it's not a place legit prospects should go. The Spurs aren't a contender anymore and can afford to let young guys learn on the job.
    agreed about the Austin thing. Our playoff streak ended so who cares if we end up losing a lot of games because we are trying to implement Patrick Williams or whoever we draft on to the team. Let them learn with the main team.

  7. #7
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    De he grow the past year? Can he grow more, he's still young? Looks like a bit of a tweener.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8g5YIQl...=17l8h2m5nhl7j

    He's plenty tall. If Keldon can grow an inch, Pat can grow an inch.

  8. #8
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    agreed about the Austin thing. Our playoff streak ended so who cares if we end up losing a lot of games because we are trying to implement Patrick Williams or whoever we draft on to the team. Let them learn with the main team.
    Exactly. Like don't start young guys over better vets for no reason, but the team clearly needs a defensive forward (if not two). Even if we disagree on his upside, I think we unanimously agree Williams can already be that. Let him play 15-22 minutes with the big club. Otherwise, Pop's just going to re-sign Beli or sign someone just like him to take those minutes. Or heaven forbid that Pop re-ups Forbes and pushes Walker or Johnson down to the bench.

    , bring up Sam too.

  9. #9
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    The future:

    White
    Keldon
    Patrick Williams
    Isaiah Stewart
    Poetl

    If they can somehow get another pick in the teens... Man, oh man, Stewart would be nice with this group.

  10. #10
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned injury concerns for Patrick Williams; other than him missing some games with a sprained toe, these twitter accounts are the only things I can find so far about possible "compensatory injury."

    Alex Brown ahbAnalytics

    Spoke with my twin & kinesiology prof on biomechanics of Obi Toppin and Patrick Williams, and thought Iíd share our conclusions:
    1) Patwill is bound for a myriad of hamstring injuries unless severe corrections take place in lower body
    2) Toppin will never have good hips in space
    2:41pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone


    Simon Rath HawksDraftNerd
    Replying to ahbAnalytics

    I think he just needs to adjust his workout plan and do less thigh exercises. Thatís something an NBA trainer should be able to fix.
    6:07pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone



    Alex Brown ahbAnalytics
    Replying to HawksDraftNerd
    Yeah it definitely needs to be rebalanced, relatively easy fix that just requires hard work... if they remain imbalanced he will struggle to keep a healthy lower body
    6:09pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone



    Alex Brown
    ahbAnalytics
    Jul 4 Replying to @TheSportsminn
    Major lower body rebalancing, lower leg muscles need a lot of work to be able to function ideally alongside his massive quads (sorry @EthanPiechota)

  11. #11
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    Someone mentioned injury concerns for Patrick Williams; other than him missing some games with a sprained toe, these twitter accounts are the only things I can find so far about possible "compensatory injury."

    Alex Brown ahbAnalytics




    Spoke with my twin & kinesiology prof on biomechanics of Obi Toppin and Patrick Williams, and thought I’d share our conclusions:
    1) Patwill is bound for a myriad of hamstring injuries unless severe corrections take place in lower body
    2) Toppin will never have good hips in space
    2:41pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone


    Simon Rath HawksDraftNerd
    Replying to ahbAnalytics

    I think he just needs to adjust his workout plan and do less thigh exercises. That’s something an NBA trainer should be able to fix.
    6:07pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone



    Alex Brown ahbAnalytics
    Replying to HawksDraftNerd
    Yeah it definitely needs to be rebalanced, relatively easy fix that just requires hard work... if they remain imbalanced he will struggle to keep a healthy lower body
    6:09pm ∑ 4 Jul 2020Twitter for iPhone



    Alex Brown
    ahbAnalytics
    Jul 4 Replying to @TheSportsminn
    Major lower body rebalancing, lower leg muscles need a lot of work to be able to function ideally alongside his massive quads (sorry @EthanPiechota)
    Ah, so it sounds more cautionary than an actual red flag. Honestly, sounds a bit like nephew when he got Zaza'ed and there were alleged issues that it was a compound effect that would lead to his quad problems...

  12. #12
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    The red flag I'm stuck on with Williams is his rebounding. He's built like an oak tree yet he's weak on the glass. Even looking at his high school and AAU stats, he's weak on the glass. Devin Vassell looks like Reggie Miller's anorexic younger brother when he's next to Williams yet Vassell is the better rebounder somehow.

    Considering that rebounding rate most directly transfers from college to the NBA, it's a worry, IMO. Other 3/4s who make it have a much higher rebounding rate. Kawhi was a beast on the boards in college from Day 1, for example.

    Beyond his rebounding, I like Williams. High ceiling, good tools, good instincts. I won't be sad if the Spurs pick him at 11. But this rebounding issue is a big enough red flag that I'd rather the Spurs pick Vassell if both are available even though Williams in theory fits better positionally.

  13. #13
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    Potential 2020 NBA Draft targets for the Spurs: Patrick Williams

    https://www.poundingtherock.com/2020/7/12/21322054/potential-2020-nba-draft-targets-for-the-spurs-patrick-williams

  14. #14
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    The red flag I'm stuck on with Williams is his rebounding. He's built like an oak tree yet he's weak on the glass. Even looking at his high school and AAU stats, he's weak on the glass. Devin Vassell looks like Reggie Miller's anorexic younger brother when he's next to Williams yet Vassell is the better rebounder somehow.

    Considering that rebounding rate most directly transfers from college to the NBA, it's a worry, IMO. Other 3/4s who make it have a much higher rebounding rate. Kawhi was a beast on the boards in college from Day 1, for example.

    Beyond his rebounding, I like Williams. High ceiling, good tools, good instincts. I won't be sad if the Spurs pick him at 11. But this rebounding issue is a big enough red flag that I'd rather the Spurs pick Vassell if both are available even though Williams in theory fits better positionally.
    I chalk that up to the schemes and game plan by the coach. It was a switchable defense... The bigs and forwards did not stay around the rim like they would on any other team. Almost every player on Florida St averaged four rebounds. The center on that team didnt average much rebounds. Vassell may have averaged a bit more rebounds because he would typically pick up the ball handler, who would usually attack the basket and miss because of Vassell's great defense on guards. He would then get that rebound.
    https://seminoles.com/sports/basketball/

  15. #15
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    He’ll be gone by 11 when it’s all said and done tbh.

  16. #16
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    The future:

    White
    Keldon
    Patrick Williams
    Isaiah Stewart
    Poetl

    If they can somehow get another pick in the teens... Man, oh man, Stewart would be nice with this group.
    I like Stewart but he will be a Center he does not have the movement to play Power Forward.

  17. #17
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I chalk that up to the schemes and game plan by the coach. It was a switchable defense... The bigs and forwards did not stay around the rim like they would on any other team. Almost every player on Florida St averaged four rebounds. Vassell may have averaged a bit more rebounds because he would typically pick up the ball handler, who would usually attack the basket and miss because of Vassell's great defense on guards. He would then get that rebound.
    Williams' lack of rebounding instincts becomes obvious when you look for it when watching tape. Someone who has a man's body at 6-foot-8 with really good athleticism shouldn't be a run of the mill rebounder on his college team.

    Kabengele played in the same system the previous year and he was really strong on the boards. I can't chalk it up to a system issue, tbh.

    Even someone like Nassir Little who was similarly as raw as Williams was a much better rebounder -- and he's much shorter.

    Williams' lack of rebounding isn't a deal breaker but it's a red flag that he might be lacking reaction speed and/or heart, IMO.

  18. #18
    Believe. Sugus's Avatar
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    If the Spurs draft PatWill to play the full-time 3, with some slight small ball 4, then his lack of rebounding isn't as much of a deal breaker, taking into account the best case scenario that the Spurs either sign a free agent PF that can fill up the rebounding role (since Poeltl isn't much of a rebounder either), or draft one with next year's draft pick, a draft which is supposed to be loaded. I don't know about prospects, but fitting a good sized, ball-handling point-forward kind of PF alongside PatWill, Poeltl and our guards sounds like a real solid foundation for success.

    Now, if you're telling me Williams is going to be playing extended minutes at the 4... That's a different story. Either way, I like him much better than Vassell. Players putting on the kind of weight Devin would have to gain to be a successful player in the NBA isn't very common, and I'd like for a player that we don't have to send to Austin for two years to develop.

  19. #19
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    Williams' lack of rebounding instincts becomes obvious when you look for it when watching tape. Someone who has a man's body at 6-foot-8 with really good athleticism shouldn't be a run of the mill rebounder on his college team.

    Kabengele played in the same system the previous year and he was really strong on the boards. I can't chalk it up to a system issue, tbh.

    Even someone like Nassir Little who was similarly as raw as Williams was a much better rebounder -- and he's much shorter.

    Williams' lack of rebounding isn't a deal breaker but it's a red flag that he might be lacking reaction speed and/or heart, IMO.
    Length is more important than height when it comes to rebounding. In this regard, I equate Little and Williams to S bag and George, because the 2 inch shorter ones are also the 2 inch longer ones and hence the better rebounding ones.

    This is the one area where Murray really helps though. You can get by with weaker 4-5 rebounding that normal because of his ability clean glass.


    If the Spurs draft PatWill to play the full-time 3, with some slight small ball 4.
    With his lack of shooting and lateral quickness, he's clearly going to be a 4 in the league. He'll still be an option to defender bigger 3s though.

  20. #20
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Not interested. I want a prospect with a high motor. We need a good rebounder since all we have is LMA and even then he might not be up to that task anymore. Plus I’m iffy on him as a defender in the nba

  21. #21
    Believe. Sugus's Avatar
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    With his lack of shooting and lateral quickness, he's clearly going to be a 4 in the league. He'll still be an option to defender bigger 3s though.
    I'm open to learning more about PatWill since I haven't watched too much tape on him, but why would you already discard his shooting ability? He shoots a very respectable 83% from the FT line, which is a good indicator to his shooting mechanics and whether they can translate to and evolve in the NBA, plus shooting 32% from 3pt range (albeit on low volume). I wouldn't call him a sniper or close to it, but the foundational pieces are there for him to develop into a good shooter, even if he has to play as stretch 4 due to lack of lateral quickness.

    I don't know how I feel about the Spurs drafting him though, if it's clear he's only going to be a 4. Yes, we need a PF, but the Spurs have already invested in Samanic and he showed some promise the last season game, just enough to where I wouldn't discard him until we give him a full season to prove himself. I feel like we have more use for a 3.5 than a full 4 or 4.5 in our current team. I'm really iffy on Devin Vassell too, though, so I don't really know which realistic prospect for the Spurs fits the mold I want them to fill in this draft. I'd love for next year's draft to focus on the 4 or 5 positions, especially considering it's rumored to be much stronger in talent and we might no longer have hopes for Samanic.

  22. #22
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    Not interested. I want a prospect with a high motor. We need a good rebounder since all we have is LMA and even then he might not be up to that task anymore. Plus I’m iffy on him as a defender in the nba
    So, you're digging deep and try hard in finding flaws in players who actually would be a good fit on this team but when it comes to your boy Vassell and his flaws, you dismiss it. Got it.

  23. #23
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    I'm open to learning more about PatWill since I haven't watched too much tape on him, but why would you already discard his shooting ability? He shoots a very respectable 83% from the FT line, which is a good indicator to his shooting mechanics and whether they can translate to and evolve in the NBA, plus shooting 32% from 3pt range (albeit on low volume). I wouldn't call him a sniper or close to it, but the foundational pieces are there for him to develop into a good shooter, even if he has to play as stretch 4 due to lack of lateral quickness.

    I don't know how I feel about the Spurs drafting him though, if it's clear he's only going to be a 4. Yes, we need a PF, but the Spurs have already invested in Samanic and he showed some promise the last season game, just enough to where I wouldn't discard him until we give him a full season to prove himself. I feel like we have more use for a 3.5 than a full 4 or 4.5 in our current team. I'm really iffy on Devin Vassell too, though, so I don't really know which realistic prospect for the Spurs fits the mold I want them to fill in this draft. I'd love for next year's draft to focus on the 4 or 5 positions, especially considering it's rumored to be much stronger in talent and we might no longer have hopes for Samanic.
    I didn't. The reality is, he's currently a sub par range shooter and will probably remain so at least to start his career. I'd be surprised if he's ever better than average though, which goes for most of the current youth.

    Samanic is irrelevant. He won't be able to defend big, overpowering 3s nor is he some can't miss prospect who has the position on lockdown.

    Williams is essentially a 3.75 (a nominal 4, who defends certain 3s). Bey is the only 3.5 projected to fall in their range.

  24. #24
    Believe. Sugus's Avatar
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    I didn't. The reality is, he's currently a sub par range shooter and will probably remain so at least to start his career. I'd be surprised if he's ever better than average though, which goes for most of the current youth.

    Samanic is irrelevant. He won't be able to defend big, overpowering 3s nor is he some can't miss prospect who has the position on lockdown.

    Williams is essentially a 3.75 (a nominal 4, who defends certain 3s). Bey is the only 3.5 projected to fall in their range.
    I see, I disagree though, of course we'll see how his shot develops over his career but he seems to have everything in place to be a good shooter except for the reps, volume, and green light. Some other posters mentioned how PatWill's coaching system in college was meant for moving the ball, which might've taken opportunities from him, and you can't discard the wonders the Spurs' coaching has done for players' shots in the past. We all (at least I did) saw Keldon's horrid shooting start to his Austin season, only for him to turn it around and become one of the more promising shooters in our core group. Of course, being drafted by the Spurs doesn't automatically mean a player's shooting issues are magically solved, but if that's the biggest knock on his game, I'm willing to still bet on him on this fact and the fact that he at least shows room for growth there.

    And as for Samanic... Of course he isn't locking down the PF position, and I guess we're taking -or should be taking- BPA every time, but I just wouldn't be content with the Spurs devoting another consecutive draft pick to a strict 4 (I'd like Achiuwa as a 4/5 if we're going there), unless it's someone who projects to be able to play multiple positions or fills a different kind of need for us. We can perfectly sign a PF off the FA market to hold down the fort for next season on a 1-year deal, then give some major minutes to our youth next season, including Luka, and go into the 20-21' offseason with a much better image of which prospects have swam and sunk, and which position is most dire to fill using what will probably be the Spurs' highest pick since Duncan in the most (reportedly) loaded draft in ages.

    Get a wing, or a center, prospect this draft. I don't like Vassell too much but he fills that need. Bey is a good one too, but I'm still hoping the Spurs trade up, at least a couple positions, to get "their guy", of course if the asking price isn't too steep.

  25. #25
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I really don't want a raw player. I don't need a guy to be a realized star or anything, but most teams seem able to give their lotto picks minutes right out of the gate. If you draft Williams, teach him how to hit threes from the corner and have him come off the bench next to Gay until he gets his feet under him so you can start him for Lyles. Austin's fine for some players, but it's not a place legit prospects should go. The Spurs aren't a contender anymore and can afford to let young guys learn on the job.
    This x1000000

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