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Why? All I have to say is Why right this pathetic article....
EVERY star has a bad game...Refs or not.
Buck Harvey: Duncan's one flaw? Why the Spurs live with it
Web Posted: 11/13/2005 12:13 AM CST
San Antonio Express-News
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WASHINGTON — Gregg Popovich didn't sit next to Tim Duncan and pat him on the knee. They save that for June.
The Spurs instead brushed this off, and Tony Parker took that a step further. He chose to see the silver-and-black lining after Duncan shot 3 for 18.
"After this one," Parker joked, "maybe Timmy will cut his hair."
That's the way to handle it. But what happened Saturday also reminded everyone that a third ring didn't change Duncan's tortured reality. He's still dependent — perhaps more than any superstar — on officials who allow him to play his game.
And if he doesn't get that?
Then he still struggles to play through it.
That said, Duncan could have been himself Saturday and not changed the outcome. Gilbert Arenas was that good. Antonio Daniels afterward called Arenas the third-best player he's ever played with — after Duncan and David Robinson — and that's saying something. Ray Allen, at best fourth on Daniels' list, would agree.
Daniels would also put Duncan on top of his list, and there have been few signs that this status will change any time soon. Before Duncan suited up for this final game of the road trip, he'd looked as fluid and sharp this season as he ever has.
He also was shooting free throws at a 90 percent clip, which suggests his mind is clearer. And Friday night in Boston he had everything going, including a 3-pointer.
So wasn't Saturday just a blip? "I told him after the game," Nick Van Exel said, "he'll have about one of those every 20 games. So that's about four a year, which gets one out of the way. Games like these keep you human."
But Duncan seems to get more human when the wrong ref walks out. There was one in the crew Saturday, and some in the Spurs' locker room wonder if Duncan let that get to him. The Wizards bodied him without double teams, pinching him with some athletes, and it was clear in the second quarter that Duncan was frustrated.
Then Duncan went inside, missed and felt he'd been fouled. The Wizards started going the other way, and Duncan reached out to grab a jersey, as he often does, to show the refs exactly what a foul is. But Duncan didn't tug hard enough, and play continued.
When Parker came up with a steal, scoring on the other end off Daniels to pull the Spurs within two points, Duncan was still in the middle of the floor wanting to argue.
Afterward Duncan dressed quickly as he talked. "Just a long night," he said. "Those guys played well tonight, give them a lot credit. We compounded it with myself playing very, very badly. It just happens. Balls not bouncing the right way, the whistles not coming."
That was his only mention of the officiating. But even that one sentence would make a few people smile in Boston. The Celtics were the ones who questioned the calls the night before when they tried to defend Duncan.
That's the way it is in this game; someone always has a beef. But there are times when this part of the game begins to affect Duncan and change him, too. The Olympics were an example, as was last June. Then he shot 10 of 27 in the first two games in Detroit and followed with a free-throw meltdown in Game 5.
Saturday showed he can still be bothered, but maybe anyone would have been. Arenas ended the third quarter with a heave that banked in, and the Spurs opened the fourth this way: Duncan missed on a delicate cut, Robert Horry rebounded yet struck the back rim on a dunk attempt and Bruce Bowen rimmed out a three.
Any reason to think that things were going the Spurs' way?
A sequence minutes later confirmed the obvious. Then, with the Spurs still within nine points, Duncan missed inside. He followed by yanking back the rebound with a strong right hand and went up for a point-blank put-back. Only to miss.
Had the ref gotten to him this deeply? Had Duncan, somewhere deep inside, given in to the aggravation?
The Spurs didn't search for answers afterward, and for good reason. They know these things happen and will again, and they know these things have happened before.
Last June, even, on the way to another le.
Why? All I have to say is Why right this pathetic article....
EVERY star has a bad game...Refs or not.
That sums it up pretty well. Couple that with "one of those nights" where a jumpshooting team can't miss and you have what happened to us last night. It's frustrating but I take solace in knowing the Wiz couldn't beat us in a series if their lives depended on it."I told him after the game," Nick Van Exel said, "he'll have about one of those every 20 games. So that's about four a year, which gets one out of the way. Games like these keep you human."
Duncan's problems are, and always have been between his ears. He needs to develop an NFL cornerback's mentality: instant amnesia. When he starts missng anything, he freaks out, and lets it leak into his whole game. Even his FT shooting sucked last night, and that is without any defender or ref.
"He's still dependent — perhaps more than any superstar — on officials who allow him to play his game."
WTF? What kind of game does Tim have that necessitates help from the refs? Buck makes Tim sound like a faker dependent on ref help.
Buck's takes, and Buck, are as weird and ed up as ever.
Tim did fail badly last night, not in playing badly (happens), but in letting playing badly get to him, get him down, getting that defeated, pathetic, frustrated look. He's super nice guy, totally guileless and transparent, who can't even act tough. Fine with me.
This is a Tim game NOT to forget. He should figure how better to react, to keep playing when the shots and calls are fallin, how to minimize the damage, rather than amplify it.
BTW, all the years past when I criticized Pop for forcing it into Tim on off nights, this game is the type of game I was referring to.
Manu and Tony combined for 51 points, but we had to watch Tim clang 15 shots.
There is absolutely no reason for this team, with this depth, to force the ball into Duncan for 20 shots on the rare instance when he doesn't have it going on.
Bad coaching.
** Disclaimer: I am not saying fire Pop. I am not saying Pop should eat and die. I'm just saying, like I have been for 3 years, that this team is good enough to look somewhere else for scoring on nights when Duncan looks human.
agreed. manu could have taken more than 9 shots.
I thought Pop should have kept Manu in beyond that 5 minute mark in the 3rd quarter (instead of taking him out those 3 minutes). He was rolling and he never found a ryhthm after that subs ution. I don't think Manu really needed a rest either, this was hardly a defensive game, and Manu didn't even force one turnover all night, so it's not like he was using a lot of energy on that end.
As for the NVE comment, I disagree -- Duncan will have one of those games once a year tops. I don't think he has had such a bad game in the last 2-3 seasons, let alone, "once every 20 games". It won't happen again. But you have to give Haywood a lot of credit, when he wasn't fouling Tim he was forcing misses and awkard shots in the paint which really set the tone for the game.
Last edited by Nikos; 11-13-2005 at 12:42 PM.
Mouse post this crap all the time , and is called a Troll.
Duck Harvey does it and he's a talented writer
Seriously I think it was something they ate that made them lethargic...
please quote which posts says this article is by a talented writer. Buck Harvey is as much a freaking moron as mouse is. (joking of course mouse, your not THAT badMouse post this crap all the time , and is called a Troll.
Duck Harvey does it and he's a talented writer)
If your refering to the people agreeing with some of the quotes in the article, I got news for you, even Buck harvey isnt re ed enough to make up quotes to make his article look better. Those quotes where said by players.
It truly does amaze me that in 8 years, Duncan can have 3 championships, 3 finals mvp's, 2 league mvp's all before the age of 30. Still jackasses like this in the media will come out and question him after one bad game game unbelievable.
TD played pretty lousy last night. Reminded me of that first game at Seattle last year.
Nov. 7th, 2004 - Sea 113 SA 94
Duncan 35min 17pts 10reb 2asst 4blks 5TO's 4-16fg's
Last Night - Was 110 SA 95
Duncan 34min 11pts 14reb 2asst 0blks 2TO's 3-18fg's
The Sonics/Wiz parallel is interesting.
Didn't the Sonics also play Tim tough and physical, as well as shooting real hot?
Malone played Tim physical in the 03 playoffs, pushed Tim out to the wing and turned him into an ineffective jumpshooter. 4 straight losses.
One of these years, maybe Tim, Pop, and the Spurs will figure out how to counter when Tim is getting man-handled and his finesse game is nullified.
Ok, so am I the only crazy one that sees the truth in the article?
I love Tim Duncan, he's without a doubt the best PF in the league and his creditionals speak for themselves. However, Buck is right. Tim DOES let refs get to him a lot more than he should. For all the ing everyone on the forum did during last Finals in games 1 and 2 that the Pistons were whining too much to the refs instead of playing, Duncan does that often too. I've seen him stand their arguing with the ref over a non-call while the rest of the team is at the other end defending. Sure, Tim was probably fouled 7 out of 10 times for the non-calls, but he does let it get to him a little too much at times. See Game 3, 4, 5 against pistons.
With that said, Duncan usually is very consistent and bounces back from these performances and like NVE said, he doesn't have them that often anyways. He's still the best player in the league
People in the US unfortunately really don't understand the role of the media as a whole, and the sports media in particular.
Their job is to report the truth as they say it, and sometimes to be entertaining. They aren't getting paid to be homers and cheerleaders or the official mouthpieces for the team.
We said a lot worse things about Tim here after the "sad face" game #4 in Detroit last year.
This isn't spurs.com. Harvey doesn't write for them either.
Harvey has always been a bit "out there". The guy's really bright and has written some really good columns over the years, but every once in a while he does come out with a Bizarro-World out-of-left-field take. , he's actually settled down quite a bit since he came to Express News. Anybody remember some of his SA Light stuff? (good lord I'm old). Man there was some TRULY weird in those columns.
That being said, I do think he has a point...Tim does seem to let things get into his head and fester on occasion. But I think it's a VERY small in his armor.
I watched a game by another person who was considered the leader of his team, having a long night who shot a low percentage from the field. People might have wondered why he "forced up " 35 shots. He had a long night that game 6 of the Finals. His name is Michael Jordan.
You put the ball in the hands of your best player, especially when he is of the caliber that Tim Duncan is, even if he has had a sorry game. In the playoffs, Duncan was injured. Hubie pointed out that his ankles would not heal until they were rested for a summer. Game 6 with the Sonics, Tim should a low percentage, but he got it done. Tim had 2 bad games, 3 and 4, in the Finals, struggled terribly at the end of game 5, being labeled as choking since he only put up 26 points and 19 boards (without which they would not have even been close enough no matter what Horry did), shot 10 for 27 (just over 33 %), but from the middle of the third quarter on, Tim dominated the game, put the team on his back and carried us to victory.
I consider Tim the best player in the world. One night does not change that. You let your best player decide the contest. If he can't get it done that night, you lose. But he will get it done more often than your other players.
I do think that Tim can be affected by hard, physical defense from athletic bigs guarding him if the refs swallow their whistles come or high water.
However, he normally works through it and leads the Spurs to victory.
I think that we still have an offense that is inside out. I don't like teams whose offense is backcourt dominated and dependent upon jumpshots. I don't like them because I don't think that this type of offense will win in a 7 game series. I don't remember the last team that won the championship playing that way.
That's fine. It just helps when what he writes has some relationship with reality. Numerous times it doesn't. He will write negatively about Tim and the Spurs, saying things that most basketball analysts (with or without any relationship to the Spurs) believe are untrue.
An analogy (not perfect but reasonable) is if a reporter who covers the Bulls started writing that "Jordan is overrated" and other garbage. What would most other people who cover basketball think? What would (or at least what should) Chicago fans think when a guy in their own town writes criticisms which have no relationship with reality about Jordan and their team, ones which are difficult to defend in any reasonable, rational, logical way.
This is what Harvey does for the town and people of San Antonio, while covering Tim and the Spurs.
We have had some interesting dialogues regarding this very phenomenon.
BTW, the press in Europe feels that its job is to oppose the government whether the government is right or wrong. They selectively pick which topics to cover, which sources to use, how to end the article and what framework to use to "interpret" those facts, connecting together.
Polls consistently show that people who work in the media are nearly uniform in their support for one particular party. Virtually all of them belong to that party and vote for members of that party. The American public as a whole is evenly divided between the two parties. Too bad that members of the mainstream media aren't equally evenly divided.
Timmy needs to keep the hair.
Who else was gonna shoot? Cartwright?People might have wondered why he "forced up " 35 shots. He had a long night that game 6 of the Finals. His name is Michael Jordan.
Jordan was the Bulls on offense (yeah, I know, Pippen, but the point remains the same...).
Again, Manu and Tony combined for 51. They shot a combined 18-32 (56%) and were 11-11 on their free throws.
Tim was 3-18 (19%), and 5-8 on FTs.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Pop to keep calling plays for Tim on nights like that. None whatsoever.
And like I said, this is the kind of thing that has pissed me off about Pop before. This team has incredible depth, Pop even talked about it ad nauseum prior to the season starting.
Why is it then that on a night when your #1 gun is off, and your #2 and #3 are on, do you continue to force it to Duncan?
It's ing stupid. And spare me "give it to the best player, because that's what you do." That's how you lose games when your best player is off.
The one fault of both Tim and Pop is that on the rare night where TD is glaringly off, they both press. Tim forces up shots even when they're not going in, and gets pissed at the officiating.
Pop thinks "hmm, Tim's playing bad, I think he needs more touches." And the majority of the time, we lose because of it.
Now, if no one else on the team is scoring, fine. I won't argue with that. But when when the other 2/3 of your triumvirate is hitting on all cylinders and stroking the nets to the tune of 60% shooting, give them the friggin' rock. It ain't rocket science.
Well said great post, i agree with you 100% anyone who jumps on Tim for a once in a blue moon bad game is just not being a real fan. When you look at Tim Duncan what does he have left to prove in this game. When he was drafted, he needed to prove he was worthy of the #1 pick, he did that. Then he needed to prove he could lead the spurs to a le, he did that 3 times over. Then he needed to prove he was MVP calibur, he did that 2 times over. There were even some jackasses out there that said he needed to prove he can win one without D-Rob and he did that too. This man can retire right now today and in five years in his first year of elgibility, walk right into the hall of fame. I don't care if he has 10 bad games in a row, this man has earned our respect through the years and i will never jump on him for his play.
"jumps on Tim"
I'm not jumping on Tim, but why TF keep going to Tim when he cold as a witch's , with his head and at ude screwed up by the reffing?
The guards were doing ALL the scoring, 57%!!! on 3Gs!!!, so why not let the guards keep scoring?
The Spurs front court totally sucked, 17 pts total!!, why ride a dead horse in crunch time? Be flexible, go with the hot hand(s), and crank up the shutdown defense for 3 minutes.
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