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I know for a fact that it’s unfathomable to rebuild. How dare we not rebuild into a championship contender inside of 2 years. We should be able to fully develop a rookie in about 3 months. Just no ing excuse.
Why are the Spurs so bad? Who is to blame? How do they fix it? We've pondered these questions for weeks. While many will blame Pop's coaching, the Talent acquired, Lack of defensive intensity, the answer lies in the Spurs history and when you take a deeper look, it becomes very concerning.
The date is June 13th, 1988, the Spurs have hired a head coach by the name of Larry Brown. He brings with him two assistant coaches that we have come to know well. Gregg Popovich and RC Buford. The Spurs have a horrible first season under Brown. However, they have some young players that will transform the franchise. Coming over they have the 1987 No. 1 Pick David Robinson who many expect to propel the franchise to new heights. They also drafted a young swingman in Brown's first year named Willie Anderson and in 1989 drafted Sean Elliott. These players along with others will give them a young Nucleus. However, the leader of the team for the last few years was a 26-year-old incredible two-way Guard and 3-time all-star named Alvin Robertson. Robertson was a solid player but also not a good teammate. The Spurs make sure they do two things before Robinson Arrives (1) Give him and Allstar Vet and (2) A veteran point Guard. On May 28th, 1989, They Traded Alvin Robertson for an all-star veteran and leader Terry mings. Then on August 28th, 1989, they traded for veteran Point Guard and 3-time all-star Maurice Cheeks. The end result ended up being a 50 plus win season with a young nucleus.
The date is June 25th, 1997, the Spurs draft No. 1 pick Tim Duncan. Similar to what happened with David Robinson's rookie season the Spurs previous season was terrible. However, Tim Duncan started his career with two things, (1) an all-star veteran (David Robinson) and a veteran point guard (Avery Johnson) The end result was a 50+ win season and an eventual championship the next season.
Fast Forward to today. A No.1 pick was acquired (one who is said to be generational talent). Based off history the expectation is that he will be provided with a veteran all-star and a veteran point guard. This has been a part of the formula that has made the Spurs successful. However, there is no Allstar veteran provided to Wemby only an oft injured Zach Collins. They do not have a veteran point guard only a 6-8 experiment known as Jeremy Sochan. The Spurs have currently lost 14 games in a row and most of them have not been close. These experiments are not by accident. The Spurs could have traded for an all-star and signed or traded for a veteran point guard, as they have assets in young players and draft picks. If the Spurs finish with a worst record than they had prior to drafting a Phenom, with assets available to make moves, would your run of the mill coach and or GM be able to keep his job? NO.
Keep in mind that Gregg Popovich fired a coach that went 3-15 that didn't have his all-star Center, and also previously had two 50-win seasons.
The real and disturbing reason the Spurs are struggling is because after winning 5 Championships, Gregg Popovich a hall of fame coach has no one to answer to, no accountability. As evidenced by the lack of moves the Spurs have made to support Wemby with competent veteran talent. Pop runs the team like a man who can't get fired and doesn't have to answer to anyone. And you know what? Sadly, for us, He's Right!
I know for a fact that it’s unfathomable to rebuild. How dare we not rebuild into a championship contender inside of 2 years. We should be able to fully develop a rookie in about 3 months. Just no ing excuse.
You are to blame for not listening to offseason interviews, and setting your expectations accordingly.
They traded for mings and Mo Cheeks, who hated it here, and lived at the airport hotel until he was flipped for Strickland. That team didn’t even last 3 years, with an aging mings blowing out his knee, and Strickland walking. We spent our only asset, a young All D, All Star, All NBA guard, and got one second round trip, and never recovered until we won the lottery again, 8 years later. Adding vets immediately isn’t always the answer.
You keep talking about how these roster moves were a failure because mings blew out his knee and Strickland left in FA (only after Primo'ing himself in a Seattle hotel, which kicked off a career racking up a rap sheet).
The reality is that the mings (28 yo at the time) trade is one of the 4 best trade acquisitions in Spurs history (in no particular order, Gervin, Gilmore, Nephew, mings are easily in the top 5). mings first 3 years in San Antonio he put up 22/8, 17/8, 17/9 while averaging 30+ mpg every season. After his injury he wasn't the same, but still went on to play 10 more NBA seasons. His presence helped the Pre-Duncan era Spurs to be perennial playoff contenders, which would last for the next 30 years or so, but because he blew out his knee in a freak accident it would have been better to do what... let Alvin Robinson be a locker room cancer? Get another lotter pick and draft Felton Spencer or Rumeal Robinson or some ?
We didn't go this direction this time around (though I would have liked us to, it's not clear what options there actually were to do so. FVV and Dillon Brooks definitely don't do it for me), and that's okay. But it's revisionist history to say this was a failure and set us back until we won the lottery again, especially considering since Robinson's rookie season through Duncan's (8 seasons) we made the playoffs ever year, won the division 4 times, had 3 WC semis appearances and 1 WCF appearance. Hardly seems like we "never recovered" from Trading Alvin Robertson, especially considering how Robertson's performance fell off a cliff after the trade and he dealt with his own legal troubles
The Robinson era didn’t ring because they had a terrible back court and the owners were cheap bas s.
Lloyd Daniels was supposed to be a saviour of the team. Antoine Carr? Rodman? Negele knight? Avery Johnson? Vinny del negro? Dale Ellis was over the hill. Those were some terrible teams with Sean Elliott being the only other player who should be on a championship roster. It’s a testament to how dominant the twin towers defence was by winning the le with Avery Johnson starting.
If we keep building off of players with little talent then It would be a repeat of this, unless we can wait 8 Years and another generational talent falls on our lap.
The Duncan spurs won in 99 because there were strong championship winning vets and a well constructed group who compliments each other. The spurs don’t right now.
the gm gonna have to take the blame....They said they were gonna wait see what they got....and then
signed collins to a ext....And its hes not looking good next to wemby at all,That looks like a bad move
from us already...we should of just waited
TC was like 8 months older than Alvin and Alvin's last good season was 91-92. The Spurs won that trade. Don't really see any issue with trading Johnny Dawkins for Mo Cheeks either, especially since they flipped Cheeks into Strickland. The Spurs' problems were Red McCombs not being willing to spend for a le and gutting the team instead and getting unlucky with Terry mings' knee (instead of getting unlucky with Alvin Robertson's spousal abuse).
Ugh the three headed point guard of Negele Knight / Chris Whitney / Vinny Del Negro when McCombs was too cheap to pay Strickland was terrible.
Interesting trips down memory lane aside, I fail to see how any of this is relevant to the present day.
The reality is the Spurs need a talent upgrade and that, in addition to drafting talent, they will start flipping players on the current roster for better pieces (including for vets). The name of the game is asset preservation until then. It’s no accident that Collins and Tre, for example, only got two year deals, and that Keldon's deal declines over time. Very movable and enticing for other teams.
You and every delusional fan. What a ludicrous question. Spurs get "the greatest pick of all time," and this is the question you ask? ST is the very definition of you can't have anything nice.
Prisons are full of people looking for someone to blame for their problems.
who to blame for what exactly ?
Were you expecting the Spurs to be contender this year ?
Spurs made moves the last couple of years to tank and pick the most hyped prospect since Lebron... they achieved just that plus still tons of draft picks, tons of cap, got Vassel who looks a potential solid starter, have some other prospects to work with... and cherry on the cake are in position to get another high pick next year.
To top it Victor has been healthy, he is putting historical numbers as a rookie and is showing he has the clutch gene... yeah we are doomed smh
This losing streak sucks for the fans but, in the great scheme of things, is not that big of a deal.
Ultimately it’s the fans who are to blame. For not listening to ol KA. I’ve said from the beginning that this would happen and everyone jumped all over me. I warned people that we could soon be the Sacramento Kings (during their yearly losing streak) and become a bad organization. But I was chastised profusely for having such an opinion.
Organizations start from the top down. And ultimately, it’s on the Holts to steer the direction of the ship. And I don’t believe they know how to do it.
It’s time to have Pop step down. Fans(by definition) are too emotional. Logically, Pop hasn’t lived up to his contract. And for the past 5 years I would argue he hasn’t lived up to it. But he’s been here forever so we keep him. He’s won before so we keep him but literally no other coach could do as bad as Pop (except Monty!).
Our owners are clueless, our coach is bad, our GM we think is pretty good but drafting is a crap shoot and a few bad picks can ruin the franchise. Our assistant coaches are yes men who don’t actually do what assistants are supposed to do and really aren’t teaching our players at all. We have a serious lack of talent in 3 out of 5 positions and are playing almost everybody out of position anyways all for the sake of positionless basketball which we can’t play very well. And we still have many on here that argue for us to play like . It’s amazing.
Boys this years draft and offseason is the 4th most important in franchise history. We have the franchise player, we have the number 3 player. We have quality bench players in KJ Sochan and Jones. Can we trade for a vet and he’s going to be overpriced too. Can we draft an eventual number two guy? Idk. Ideally we get Paul George and some other cheap vets to fill out the roster and cut bait on quite a bit of the youth. But a lot of people have loser mentality now on this board and I ask them how long are we supposed to miss the playoffs for? Bc it’s been 5 years. Next year will be 6. And that can snowball into 10 easier than you think.
So
Were you expecting the Spurs to be contender this year ?
Spurs made moves the last couple of years to tank and pick the most hyped prospect since Lebron... they achieved just that plus still tons of draft picks, tons of cap, got Vassel who looks a potential solid starter, have some other prospects to work with... and cherry on the cake are in position to get another high pick next year.
To top it Victor has been healthy, he is putting historical numbers as a rookie and is showing he has the clutch gene... yeah we are doomed smh
This losing streak sucks for the fans but, in the great scheme of things, is not that big of a deal.
Much
This
Honestly I didn’t expect the Spurs to contend for a le for a few years and I didn’t expect them to make the playoffs this year either. The Spurs (Pop) really hasn’t given Wemby a supporting cast, starting off with trying Sochan out at point guard. That’s like getting Ferrari and then using that to train a new driver. Experimenting , was last year. Now it’s time to legitimately build and make some moves. The only player right now with all-star potential is Vassell. Outside of that everyone is a mid to low quality role player (yes, Keldon talent-wise is a role player). The spurs have assets and it’s time to use some of them to start gaining stability. This is the first time I’ve seen the spurs have a no. 1 pick and still look incredibly bad. Based off history and how the spurs run there Organization this is uncharted territory and it doesn’t look good.
Except that's exactly what they said they weren't doing, so if You're disappointed or pissed, that's on you.
High level players are never traded unless they force their way out, and we would never be their chosen destination. They won't come here as FAs, either. That leaves the draft, which is the point of the second tank.
This is uncharted territory, so I ask you, what’s the expectation as far as success? Playoffs Wemby year 3? championship contention Wemby year 5?
The consensus seems to be that he will be the best player on offense and defense in year 3. He might already be the best defender. My thought is that SA will make the play in next season and the playoffs the following season, the depth of the run dependent on who we draft this summer with our high pick. That player will be at the end of his second season when I think we'll be a playoff team.
Wemby is easily already the Spurs best defender.
2. That draft pick better be fantastic if he is going to lift the Pop Show from this current All Time Loser level to Play In his 1st season ("by the end of next regular season").
Praying dog jpeg some kind of free agent or trade scenarios take place.
Sorry. I wasn't clear. 'Best' means best in the NBA.
Let me get your thoughts, cause you seem like someone who thinks deeply about stuff unlike most here. Your post about players not coming here etc. You’re definitely right from a free agent standpoint, but If the Spurs traded for an allstar type (Jrue Holliday, Myles Turner etc). Would your concern be the Spurs giving up assets to get someone and that guy force their way out and screw the Spurs aka Kawhi?
Jrue is my guy, but he’s 33 1/2 years old. Myles has never been an All Star or a healthy player, yet Indy would want a huge part of our pick bag for him.
I’d love to get ahold of Cason Wallace, but it would be difficult. He’s a guy in that Jrue/Brogdon/Conley mold, a tough point of attack defender who can distribute and score, but doesn’t need a ton of shots to be effective.
the spurs don't have to be the rockets right now. they don't have to waste cap space on 2nd and 3rd tier free agents just so that they can fight for a play-in spot. they're going to be bad this year and anyone else who thought that this season was going to be significantly better than this year was being unrealistic. the spurs tanked to get a shot at wemby and that involved getting rid of some players that were starters and/or key pieces in the rotation. they did not seek to replace those missing pieces this past off season which was very prudent. that the spurs have the record they do playing the schedule that they've played so far should not be the least bit puzzling.
In the eyes of other teams:
How unloadable is KJ? Is he getting more tradeable or less?
Not sure honestly. I always felt he was overrated and simply a try hard player. Dude wouldn’t have gotten the time of day if not for LMA being allergic to getting Rebounds in his final year here. Then again that’s understandable considering his heart condition. But my issue with KJ is he was always in the middle. Not really someone you can give the ball to and say go to work. He’s not someone that can really play defense (to slow to guard your wings, but too small to guard your prototype 4). Yeah he plays with heart, so do alot of players. If the Spurs make any moves now or next season , I would definitely want him included.
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