Posted this in the Blazer's game thread - but thought I'd start it own thread.
When we drafted Wemby, myself and a few others wanted us to make moves to improve the team, rather than the "see what we have" route we took that either was a soft tank, or a hard tank, or an unintentional tank, or whatever it was.
I recall after we won the lottery I was advocating for us to get "Wemby's version of Terry mings". Some of you might be too young, but before David Robinson's rookie year, the Spurs went out and traded a pair of young, promising players (5-year player, 3-time all star Alvin Robertson and 2 Year Vet, ROY Runner Up Cadillac Anderson) for All NBA 3rd Teamer Terry mings. The team around DRob his rookie year was probably the best team around him in his pre-Duncan career.
Yes, David Robinson was in a different place as a rookie that Wemby was, but my desire for a TC for Wemby wasn't about trying to make a playoff push and compete now... it was around providing mentorship and leadership for Wemby and set an example of how to be a star on the court, as well as being a professional off the court. Instead, your most experienced Vet to start the season was Doug McDermott and the most experienced vet to end the season was Cedi Osman. The roster featured no players who had ever made an All-Star game.
We've corrected that somewhat this year by adding CP3, but while he may provide some on-the-court teaching and some off-the-court mentorship, he's just past the point of his career to provide the example of high level winning basketball on the court. Much is said about CP3's mentorship of SGA, but CP3 was also an All Star, All NBA 2nd team, 7th in the MVP vote the year he was mentoring SGA. Wemby doesn't have that.
Every Spurs great in the modern era has had a high level player around them their rookie year.
- Terry mings stats DRob's rookie year: 22.4 ppg, 8.4 rpg. TC was an All Star and All NBA third-teamer the year before
- David Robinson stats Timmy's rookie year: 21.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.6 bpg. 7th in MVP voting, 3rd in DPOY voting, All Star, All NBA Second Team.
- Tim Duncan stats during Tony's rookie year: 25.5 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 2.5 bpg, NBA MVP, All Star. All NBA First Team.
- Tim Duncan stats during Manu's rookie year: 23.3 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 2.9 bpg, NBA MVP, All Star, All NBA First Team, 4th in DPOY voting
- Tim Duncan stats during Nephew's rookie year: 15.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 14th in MVP voting
- Tony Parker stats during Nephew's rookie year: 18.3 ppg, 7.7 apg, 5th in MVP voting, All Star, All NBA Second Team
- Manu Ginobili stats during Nephew's rookie year: 12.9 ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.4 rpg, 5th in 6MOY voting. Previous season: 8th in MVP voting, All Star, All NBA 3rd Team
It's obviously too late to go back and time and add this player in Wemby's rookie year... but we can do that now... but it will be costly, and I'm not entirely sure what a feasible target even is. I think instead of getting that one mentor, I think we can make a few moves to add high level professionals to the team. CP3 and Barnes stand out as high BBIQ players who raise our level because the rest of our guys don't know how to play basketball, and it is hurting our team and the development of our franchise superstar. CP3 and Barnes were good pick ups, they just aren't enough. We need at least two more professionals like them, preferably at least one who performs at a higher level of play (or has recently) and knows how to win like those guys.
Yes, the season is young... but we can't go the entire season like this... it will be too costly on Wemby. Let's pull the plug on the "see what we have", Take It In the Pooper for Cooper strategy, before our franchise player fully regresses into a low efficiency chucker.
Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.
How you failed Wemby?,,,,Popa . Wemby said he wants to compete for les right out of the gate,,,,,Popa couldnt provide and its just a matter of time before Wemby leaves after his rookie contract. Who would stick around for this show and Popa 's liberal bull ?,,,,
Wemby is not "fine"
What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?
Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:
Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%
We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.
Just the classic second year regression that all great players go through, just be patient!
Nobody has failed Wemby. If anyone is failing it’s him for not being patient enough on offense and not being able to punish mismatches. That said, he’ll be fine. He started last season in the same way and got better, which I expect to happen again.
Also, having 3 of the top 7 rotation guys injured doesn’t help.
I think it’s a lot of things, to creat the perfect storm of why Wemby is where he is right now. Last year, nobody knows how to play against him, so he had that advantage, wherein his physical tools were enough to get on by. Now, the league kinda knows him a bit now that those tools won’t be enough and his deficiencies ie lack of muscle is more glaring. You have an injured Vassell who probably was the team’s best self creator last year, his absence definitely makes it easier for teams to key in on him. Speaking of teams keying in on him, we have no consistent shooters. Sure, we have guys who can shoot but not consistently enough, and even then too few of those guys to keep teams from sagging on him. Lastly, I’m not sure how to say this but Wemby’s body language is terrible. And not terrible like he’s pouting or is a malcontent. But clearly, he’s not doing the little things that he was doing last year. Things like running the break hard, getting back on D in a timely manner, being “lazy”. Only thing I can think of is, he’s tired. Which kinda doesn’t make sense, since he’s only 20 and it’s still early on in the season. I hope that that is the case, and that much like last year it’s just him starting slow (although he does look worse than he last year).
Wemby has failed himself not coming into the season in shape. He's gassed after every 5 minute stint. The guy literally can't play longer than 5 minutes and that's with time outs in between.
I agree. This has been very obvious and it could be part of why he’s jacking up threes so often. It was an issue for him at the start of last season as well.
See how Ayton played today vs Spurs. i thought that's how Wemby will be offensively, (baby hooks, lobs, occasional 3) but then Wemby's much better defensively. If the 20yr old kid is not the focus of offense then his chucking's not really a problem. It's like Duncan's later years when the whole team scores, they still win
Wemby failed wemby by playing street ball.
Wemby's 3s are concerning tbh.
Last year, I kind of got it. But now? He's not hitting at a high enough percentage to be taking that many.
Being gassed as well. I dunno, doesn't look like he's trying to catch up and get some potential blocks on fastbreaks.
Can we get Hakeen or Lew to show him some hook shots?
The team does have some ty spacing too. I don't remember Tim being nearly as surrounded as Wemby for his bank shots.
Yeah Wemby’s playing a completely different style than the one where he was dominating towards the second half of last season.
Well, you might want to wait until the second year is over, and you have a full year’s stats. Right now, we’re at 11%.Just the classic second year regression that all great players go through, just be patient!
Wemby NEEDS to ask for a trade ASAP
We were right last season, this is the worst organisation and roste for him by far
Sad as a Spurs fan but they're killing the kid using him as a decoy or role player setting up screens
Mitch's making it worse
Its just the same the inly difference was timmy has high BBIQ,post moves and always play in the post.
He's just not being used taday the way he was then.
Mitch seems more interested in developping Brahman Wesley and KD. It's a choice...
I keep going back and forth on this...noone should be absolved of their part of the blame.
Coaching has been subpar, spacing is disgustingly bad, most of the roster still can't get the ball to Wemby, but he's also looked poor in most situations.
First off, I don't buy into those low effort arguments because every single NBA player prefers being active on offense.
Wemby's defense has been beyond ridiculous and anyone who doesn't see it is a blind hater. He's at 3.7 blocks per game with opponents regularly it passing out because they don't even bother to challenge him.
He didn't have a single game with more than one or two bad possessions. He's easily on GOAT defender trajectory.
If he shows effort on defense, there's no reason for him to not show it on offense.
To me it just looks like he's straight up lost and doesn't know what to do because he lost confidence.
That's where coaching staff should come in.
Instead they told him to jack it up from deep at will. I don't think Wemby is a player who'd do it against coaching staff's wishes.
It's obviously not working and he's doubling down, starts shooting until he makes some.
But the biggest issue for me are his handles. They're obviously great for someone of his stature, but he's still a 7'4 player and the ball simply has to go high while he's dribbling.
Everyone figured it out and it's really easy for good defenders to force turnovers. I don't think Wemby should be handling the ball on the perimeter unless it's an iso against slow bigs.
There's no advantage to be had against wings or guards, he's not beating them off the dribble.
If we're talking post-ups, he lacks strength and again everyone figured it out.
Some are saying we should bring LMA to coach him, but much like LMA wouldn't be able to handle it like Wemby, Wemby can't use LMA's moves with his current physical tools.
Every time he tries to go up for a fadeaway he gets bumped and pushed off the balance. Same thing happens when he tries to put it down on the floor and attack the basket.
Unless he's really deep and long enough to lay it in, he loses balance and can't get to the basket.
What coaching staff should work on is his face-up game around the post.
Get Timmy in and work on those jumpers close to the paint. With his touch (31-34 FT so far) it should be automatic.
But for every Wemby's flaw, the team is o much worse.
Just rewatch last night's game. At least 5 situations where they can just throw it high while he's got the defender somewhat sealed in the paint, but they don't...then Wemby just goes back to the corner and is out of possession completely.
Lastly, Olympics obviously messed with his preparation and he looks like we're 60 games into the season. Completely gassed after 7 minutes.
Overall, as long as his defense is on current level, there should be no alarms, it should be on coaching staff to figure out how to get him more easy points because he's obviously showing effort, even though it sometimes doesn't look like it.
Last time I checked, when those other guys stub their toes, Wemby doesn't feel it. You can't have it both ways. Wemby can't be praised for having better numbers than those guys his rookie year and then panic when those guys catch up the next year. Growth isn't linear. We all know why Wemby is struggling to put up points this year. It's not a mystery. If the goal is to get him to have better numbers, he needs to stop being a perimeter scorer and focus more on playing off his teammates. His efficiency, rebounds and points would go way up, and his turnovers would drop. But that would imply that he isn't the greatest, or limit him or some other nonsense, so we can't have that.
There's more than one way to sniff, man. Obsessing over Wemby's exaltation fits that category. At least for Pop sniffers, people are doing it based on what he's already done versus what they hope he'll eventually do. We can be Spurs fans who enjoy Wemby without constantly panicking over his place next to the greats.
May also explain why he settles for all of these three-pointers.
Anybody who has played pickup basketball knows the feeling...late in game, you're gasping for air, and you're just like " it, I'm gonna take this three to try to finish the game instead of trying to take a guy off the dribble or get down in the paint."
I understand that Wemby has the ultimate green light, but it's like Coaching 101 to say "Hey, your three isn't falling right now, let's try something else" instead of "We want him to keep shooting"
he's doing fine, he just gets gassed
Sorry scott, Wemby's the one playing low BBIQ ball. He needs to ing quit roaming to the three point line constantly in halfcourt sets. Every time he puts up one of those catch and shoot threes from the top of the key area might as well just call it a turnover. Can't blame this season on the supporting cast, even Branham is looking decent and Sochan is becoming the player we all envisioned in 2022 ( ing sucks losing him 4-6 weeks).
of course it is because he has to bring it on both ends. And wrestling in the post tires you out even more. That being said it's not that his jumpers are short, but he's definitely settling for dumb shots or passing the ball back out when he's tired.
It's a real concern. I've been annoyed by his Stephen Curry shot selection since the start of the season. Fortunately he's curtailing his chucking a bit lately.
That said, I'm not really worried long term. End of last season was good, but the team still didn't know how best to play with Wembanyama, how he requires so much space and has issues with position.
The league is the best in the world, and really good at adjusting to young players. Teams know when to dig at his drives, when to send doubles, how to jam areas to hurt where he operates. He's also more of a SF in playstyle where his shooting isn't quite there at this time.
The team seems to be taking the early part of the season to work pieces in and see what fits. This is a better version of last year, or at least one where we're actually still winning. But I think they're working things out. Paul and Wemby didn't have much preseason game time together. They need to learn how to win with and without Wembanyama and this was working pretty well, or at least they were activating Sochan a lot. And then they've been missing a key SG.
I dunno. It's a long season. Dude is tired from the summer. They have room to tinker and work while they're still .500 already.
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