Reply With Quote
GS's combo can score, but as for "having to play defense when the other teams have stoppers", I haven't seen it yet. They snag a few steals, but neither is that difficult to score on. It's probably why their team loses on a regular basis.
http://warriors.realgm.com/articles/...fter_detroits/
Warriors’ Backcourt Best In NBA – After Detroit’s
The Warriors’ backcourt of Baron Davis and Jason Richardson is the NBA’s best after the Pistons combo of Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups, and I will tell you why.
The other night when the Warriors’ backcourt combined for 66 in a win at Dallas, I received a text message from my friend, and it said, “You just saw the best backcourt in the league,” and that got me thinking.
I’ve always felt that the Warriors’ tandem was perhaps the most talented, but never one of the best when it came to winning and losing.
After all, how can you compare a backcourt that hasn’t a played a full season together to Billups and Hamilton, or Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, both of whom have won les?
If you’ve watched the Warriors play the last week, one would understand why. Their backcourt does more with less.
Before I go on, let me acknowledge that there are other good backcourts out there – Iverson/Iguodala, Kidd/Carter, Cassell/Mobley, Hinrich/Gordon, Arenas/Butler, Kobe/whoever, Nash/whoever – but for the sake of this column, let’s just say the Warriors’ toughest compe ion are the Pistons and Spurs backcourts.
Let’s take a look at each:
Billups & Hamilton – It’s easy to point to their 24-4 record and the two finals appearances and say case closed. But let me ask one question: If they had to play with Davis and Richardson’s supporting cast, would they be better than 17-14 (the Warriors’ current record)?
Probably so, but not by much. And the only reason I’d put this backcourt ahead of the Warriors’ combo is the fact that both Billups and Hamilton are having career years.
Billups is averaging almost twice as many assists (8.4) over his career average (4.8), and his scoring average (19.0) is over two points above his previous best of 16.9 in 2003-04. But how much of that should be credited to his situation and how much is the fact he’s become that good?
I think it’s a little of both. I remember not too long ago when Billups was a struggling point guard who played for three teams in his first two seasons before finally settling in Detroit in year six. He elevated his game with the Pistons, becoming one of the most clutch players in the league.
No question Billups is much better than the guy we watched in Minnesota. But I also think his field-goal and 3-point percentages wouldn’t be as good on a lesser team where he’d have to force some shots.
Hamilton continues to be one of the most underrated players in the league. He leads the Pistons in scoring (21.7 ppg) while shooting a remarkable 50 percent from the field and 47 percent from downtown, both career highs.
This is the best backcourt in the league, but not by much.
Their supporting cast allows them to be the best. Either Wallace (Ben or Rasheed) is better than any frontcourt player the Warriors have. Teyshaun Prince’s versatility and defense make the guards better. For one, they know that Prince will usually guard the opposing team’s best player. Which brings me to…
Parker & Ginobili – Like the Detroit combo, these guys have Bruce Bowen to take pressure off on the defensive end, a luxury Davis and Richardson don’t have.
As a matter of fact, Davis and Richardson have to be the team’s best defenders as well as leading scorers. Forwards Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy are below average on defense, and Ike Diogu is undersized for a center.
Parker and Ginobili don’t have to worry about that. Bowen is arguably the league’s best perimeter defender, and Duncan is one of the best interior defenders (just as Ben Wallace is for Detroit). Speaking of Duncan, he’s pretty good, one of those superstars that makes everybody around him better.
Ginobili and Parker are part of that “everybody.” Give Parker and Ginobili the Warriors’ supporting cast and ask yourself if they would be better than 17-14? I doubt it.
For point guards, nobody is better than Parker at getting to the basket and finishing. But if Parker didn’t have Duncan, teams would focus on stopping him, as they do now with Baron.
Same with Ginobili. Don’t get me wrong, Manu is one of my favorite players to watch, and he may be slightly better than Richardson, but not this season. Not with his injuries and Richardson’s level of play so far.
Here’s a quick breakdown of the three backcourts:
Davis/Richardson: 40.8 points, 10.7 rebounds, 12.2 assists, 41% FG
Billups/Hamilton: 40.7 points, 6.5 rebounds, 11.2 assists, 47% FG
Parker/Ginobili: 34.6 points, 8.2 rebounds, 9.4 assists, 52% FG
Some of the Warriors’ bad FG% has to be attributed to the lack of supporting cast and inside game, forcing the Warriors’ duo to take more bad shots.
Which brings me to rebounding. The Warriors are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, meaning Davis and Richardson must help out on the boards. The increased burden on defense and rebounding take a lot out of a player.
Simply put, the Warriors’ tandem has to play well for the Warriors to win. They also have to do more things than the other tandems.
One could say the same about the Iverson/ Iguodala and Kobe/Parker backcourts, but those duos are dominated by one player. Kobe is the best guard in the league, but any starting backcourt with Smush Parker cannot be considered the best, I’m sorry.
The Warriors’ 17-14 record is pretty remarkable considering the lack of frontcourt production (I know Murphy puts up good numbers, but he’s a perimeter player). If you watched their last three games – all wins vs. Boston, at Dallas and at Houston – it’s hard to imagine a backcourt tandem playing any better than those two.
Here are my top backcourts right now:
1. Billups & Hamilton, Pistons
2. Davis & Richardson, Warriors
3. Parker & Ginobili, Spurs
4. Iverson & Iguodala, 76ers
5. Kidd & Carter, Nets
GS's combo can score, but as for "having to play defense when the other teams have stoppers", I haven't seen it yet. They snag a few steals, but neither is that difficult to score on. It's probably why their team loses on a regular basis.
if we got rid of barry and beno and reacquired speedy claxton we'd probably have the best backcourt, counting bench players
I looked at these combinations, and I was suprised to see that for the most part, statistically at least, the Warriors backcourt is probably the most productive. Personally though, I believe that the Nets backcourt of Carter and Kidd is best, and I've added their statistics to the list. Put Carter and Kidd on that Warriors team, and I think Golden State would have a BETTER record than they do now, as Carter and Kidd have less of an interior presence than the Warriors do to make their jobs easier.
Davis/Richardson: 40.8 points, 10.7 rebounds, 12.2 assists, 41% FG
Billups/Hamilton: 40.7 points, 6.5 rebounds, 11.2 assists, 47% FG
Parker/Ginobili: 34.6 points, 8.2 rebounds, 9.4 assists, 52% FG
Kidd/Carter: 38.8 points, 12.9 rebounds, 11.8 assists, 43% FG
Parker and Manu though, get Ginbobili back to his form from last year and keep parker playing like he is, and I'll take our backcourt long-term over anyone.
The Spurs' backcourt is the only one with a hall of famer in the frontcourt, so just throwing out numbers is terribly misleading. I'll take a healthy Parker and Ginobili over any other tandem in the league.
a healthy Parker and Ginobili over any other tandem in the league.
I dunno.
Billups and Hamilton are pretty damn good.
I agree. I'd take them in a heartbeat if I couldn't have P&G.
Billups is the real deal.
Hamilton I'm still not sold on... I dunno maybe its cause I only really get to see him against Bruce.
Chauncey though... sick.
Recall that Parker and company owned GS last time out, period.
Bowen owns everyone. Seriously underrated DPoTY
Hamilton has his worst games against him.
So does Kobe, Wade, Carter, McGrady, Nowitzski (?!)....
Here’s a quick breakdown of the three backcourts:
Davis/Richardson: 40.8 points, 10.7 rebounds, 12.2 assists, 41% FG
Billups/Hamilton: 40.7 points, 6.5 rebounds, 11.2 assists, 47% FG
Parker/Ginobili: 34.6 points, 8.2 rebounds, 9.4 assists, 52% FG
These stats are a little misleading. Sure the Davis/Richardson combo scores roughly 6 points more, but look at their FG%! 41% compared to 47% and 52%...that's a huge difference. If Manu and Tony took that many shots ill advised shots between them, they'd average more poitns also.
My ranking:
1) Billups/Hamilton
2) Kidd/Carter
3) Parker/Ginobili
4) Everyone else....
Also, the comment that Manu and Parker don't have to worry about being good defenders...? Pop won't let you play, much less start, if you don't play good defense!
My thoughts exactly Doc. And that was WITHOUT Manu, Tim or Rasho.
Parker/Barry > Davis/Richardson
And that Davis/Richardson defense argument was pulled completely out of that guy's Oakland (most likely after a late night of huffing poppers to Bronski Beat across the bay). How many points did the Duncanless, Ginobililess Spurs rack up in that double OT game last year? 136 points.
I unclog my nose at this article.
52 FG% basicly from layups. If Parker took more jumpshots, the FG% would be 33% or less.
I know you're not reading this, because you dont accept critics to "your" boy. Thats why I bash him, beacuse you view his level of play based on "looks".
And yeah... TPark... you're gay.
I'll wait until Baron manages to play 82 games before I put him in the same ball park as Billups and Parker, who haven't missed much time to injury in last few years. Davis can give you great numbers, but if you're only getting them for 50-60 games a season that takes some of the luster off of them.
What the heck difference it makes if Parker scores going to the hole, ala Wade or on jumpers - he scores, and right now BD absolutely stinks in that area despite the columists arguement that it is due to weakness on the team. If Parker shot 36% we would be screaming for his head.
Plus the bottom line is Parker and Ginobili have 2 les - wake me when the others can put that on their resume (Billups and Hamilton only ones with a legit chance anytime soon).
I wonder what the shots per game , and free-throw made/missed statistics look like for the above guard tandems....
Tony and Manu have 2 les because of Tim and Pop's defense, advantages the other PG/SG pairs haven't had.
pistons have been to two finals themselves.
Adjusted to playing equal minutes (same minutes as Davis/Richardson who play the most):
Davis/Richardson: 40.8 points, 10.7 rebounds, 12.2 assists, 41% FG
Billups/Hamilton: 43.0 points, 6.9 rebounds, 11.8 assists, 47% FG
Parker/Ginobili: 42.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 11.6 assists, 52% FG
Kidd/Carter: 40.5 points, 13.5 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 43% FG
Don't forget that any backcourt garnish/parsley that goes with Iverson or Kobe automatically makes the Sixers and Lakers backcourts in the top echelon.
"Tony and Manu have 2 les because of Tim and Pop's defense, advantages the other PG/SG pairs haven't had."
As great as Duncan is you cannot ignore particularily Manu's contribution last year and Parker for all his up and down has had some monster playoff games as well and appears to be a steadier player this year.
That is like not giving Magic Johnson some substantial credit as he had Jabbar and Worthy up front.
I would not trade this backcourt for any in the league, except perhaps the Pistons, and I would have to think real hard about that one - they are both fine backcourts with great upsides and all 4 players have shown the capacity to truly dominate games.
In addition, right now both backcourts (Spurs and Pistons) are relative bargins with no max salary players.
( I do believe that Billups and Ginobili would be "sickest" of all due to the clutchness factor)
These backcourts are a big part of the picture why these two teams have been in the last 3 finals and may well face up again.
Last edited by Rummpd; 01-03-2006 at 01:11 PM.
I'm not taking anything away from Tony and Manu, nor do I want any other f/c.
I'm just saying that the Tony/Manu b/c w/o Tim and w/o Pop's insistence on defense wouldn't have resulting in 03, 05 les.
eg, subs ute those other b/c's for Tony/Manu and you could probably end up with pretty much the same Spurs results.
Or subs ute Tony+Manu for the other f/c's, you wouldn't get two les for the other teams.
52 FG% basicly from layups. If Parker took more jumpshots, the FG% would be 33% or less.
I know you're not reading this, because you dont accept critics to "your" boy. Thats why I bash him, beacuse you view his level of play based on "looks".
And yeah... TPark... you're gay.
TPark is not 1Parker1................I'm female, he's male. He's in SA, I live in Philly. And I don't know where you get off thinking that I vew "my boy's level of play on looks."
i lik eht ole boutons better
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
