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  1. #1
    Believe. angryllama's Avatar
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    FWD, Im back to talk some ball. Your Spurs beat my Mavs last night with defense and rowdiness. Bragging rights belong to the Spurs until that changes (maybe in April?). At least I hope it changes in April!

    Those were pretty much the same old Spurs we saw yesterday. Duncan didnt have much of a game, but his and Ginobili's shortcomings were made up for by Parker and the Spurs' reserves. The Spurs bench outplayed the vaunted Mavs' bench when it mattered. Horry hit some big shots, Finley hit some big shots, Barry made some plays, Bowen made his free throws and hit some runners, Mohammed (he's a starter now) made some big plays. The Spurs' complimentary players really stepped up and won that game for their team yesterday when Duncan and Ginobili were playing below standard.

    I'll tell you what impressed me...the Spurs' team defense is amazing. It's easily the best in the NBA. The guys communicate extremely well, are always in the right places, have excellent big defenders in the post, and give total effort nearly all the time back there. The Pistons pale in comparison. With SA, its all about team D. They are committed, have been for years and it shows. The result has been some championships over the years.

    That was the Mavs' first real challenge in probably 20 games. All of the other teams they played were just fodder (even Denver who they lost to). The Mavs gave a full effort to win this one. They wanted it.

    You hear alot about Bowen's defense on Nowitzki in game reviews. Dirk had a pretty good game. He did some things beside score to win the game and he still ended up with a pretty decent line. He outplayed Duncan and Ginobili and was probably the best player on the floor. He did deserve better treatment from the refs though as Bowen slapped, rammed, pulled, and elbowed Dirk the whole game and the refs let Bowen dictate how the contact would be called. Dirk doesnt get the respect he should and that's a shame. He doesnt get the respect that Parker, Ginobili, or Duncan get. I understand that that's what winning like SA has gets you, but it really sucks when your team is on the short end of that aspect of the game. I want to see Dirk use that against his opponents though. He needs to be able to get Bowen into foul trouble despite the hacking. That's the next step in his game and we'll see if Avery can teach him about that before the next meeting. Plain and simply, Dirk needs to be able to play through it and be smart enough to punish him for his dirty play to take the wind out of his sails. He didnt do that yesterday.

    I enjoyed the game and I hope that the rivalry grows a little bit after yesterday. Horry's bite is sure to garner alot of attention until next time. Stack is really upset about that. He's a fiery guy and I would expect him to come right at Horry next time. Horry got in a nice little cheap shot to Stack's head/neck that sparked the 'tangle' before the bite. Stack isnt the type of guy that lets that stuff slide. He'll carry that with him into the next game.

    I think that Dallas would have won if their reserves and support players could have kept up with SA in the 2nd quarter when Dirk had to sit with the two fouls. Stack blocked a Finley dunk at the rim and hit some shots, Diop made a few plays, Damp caused Duncan some problems with his defense, Howard made a few plays, Terry made a few plays, KVH made a few plays, but they let the Spurs' defense get too comfortable and didnt take the ball at the rim enough. Not only that, but they let the Spurs' role players pick them apart on the other end. I think that this game will be a good learning tool for AJ to use moving forward.

    Good game, SA. You fought adversity better, executed your team defense better, were better coached, and beat the Mavs fair and square to draw your record even with Dallas. This was a big win for SA. I wouldnt be surprised to see them use this to bring momentum for the last third of the season. Good luck until Apirl 7th. I hope that Duncan's begins to play better so that we'll see more of impact from him in the next matchup. I want both of our teams to be full strength.

  2. #2
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    FWD, Im back to talk some ball. Your Spurs beat my Mavs last night with defense and rowdiness. Bragging rights belong to the Spurs until that changes (maybe in April?). At least I hope it changes in April!
    Glad to see you back. I think the Spurs won with defense and poise -- it reminded me a lot of the games between the Spurs and Lakers in 2001 and 2002 particularly. The Spurs had a habit of running out and getting ahead of the Lakers in those games, but when it mattered, the Lakers would turn up the defensive pressure and rely on their championship mettle to put the Spurs away. I think the Mavs got a taste of that.

    Those were pretty much the same old Spurs we saw yesterday. Duncan didnt have much of a game, but his and Ginobili's shortcomings were made up for by Parker and the Spurs' reserves.
    I'd argue that they aren't the same old Spurs when Duncan plays like that. In past years, if Duncan struggled like he did last night, the Spurs had little to no chance. If two of their three best players were struggling, the Spurs were blown out. Now, however, the Spurs are less Duncan-reliant and have found ways to exploit the advantages that they gain by Duncan's mere presence. Ultimately, I think that's what makes this team different in the last couple of seasons from the earlier versions of the Duncan Spurs.

    The Spurs bench outplayed the vaunted Mavs' bench when it mattered. Horry hit some big shots, Finley hit some big shots, Barry made some plays, Bowen made his free throws and hit some runners, Mohammed (he's a starter now) made some big plays. The Spurs' complimentary players really stepped up and won that game for their team yesterday when Duncan and Ginobili were playing below standard.
    The Spurs bench might not have the athleticism and explosion that the Mavs bench seems to have, but it does have a ton of savvy and lots of experience, which tends to even the playing field in playoff-type games.

    I'll tell you what impressed me...the Spurs' team defense is amazing. It's easily the best in the NBA. The guys communicate extremely well, are always in the right places, have excellent big defenders in the post, and give total effort nearly all the time back there. The Pistons pale in comparison. With SA, its all about team D. They are committed, have been for years and it shows. The result has been some championships over the years.
    I think you're right about the Spurs team defense. I still think that the Pistons are as good or better defensively because they are such great man-to-man defenders across the board. The Spurs rely on help to clean up mistakes in man defense; the Pistons rarely make those mistakes and don't need as much help (though Ben Wallace might be the best help defender in basketball -- certainly the best among bigs).

    But, you've recognized the thing that has made the Spurs contenders year-in-and-year-out during the Popovich era. I looked at this number a couple of years ago and haven't done it since, but at that point, the number of times the Spurs had been blown out (losses by 15 or more) under Pop was miniscule. In real terms, that stat means that the Spurs are in virtually every game that they lose and give themselves a chance to win those games. That happens because defense rarely takes nights off. If you can defend, you can stay in almost every game, and that's what the Spurs have managed to do for the last 10 years or so.

    That was the Mavs' first real challenge in probably 20 games. All of the other teams they played were just fodder (even Denver who they lost to). The Mavs gave a full effort to win this one. They wanted it.
    Which is precisely why I think the Spurs accomplished something important last night. The win was important for seeding purposes, but the placement of some doubt in the minds of the Mavericks is part of the growth process towards the playoffs. The Spurs did that last year with Phoenix (particularly coming from 17 down in the 4th at Phoenix to win in OT). I don't think the Mavericks are a defeated group, but I do think there have to be some doubts.

    You hear alot about Bowen's defense on Nowitzki in game reviews. Dirk had a pretty good game. He did some things beside score to win the game and he still ended up with a pretty decent line.
    True, in a sense, but most of his scoring came against guys not named Bowen. He had 23 points, but 7 of those came on free throws he got in drawing fouls on Ginobili (twice) and on Parker (behind the arc). Dirk also got a jumper in a scramble situation and had an uncontested put-back of an offensive rebound. I haven't broken down a tape or anything, but my math says that he got no more than 12 against Bowen, which is a remarkable effort by Bruce -- remarkable except that it's the second time this season that he's done that.

    He outplayed Duncan and Ginobili and was probably the best player on the floor.
    I thought both Parker and Bowen played better all-around games than Dirk.

    He did deserve better treatment from the refs though as Bowen slapped, rammed, pulled, and elbowed Dirk the whole game and the refs let Bowen dictate how the contact would be called.
    In other words, officials shouldn't let Bowen play any defense because, after all, he's Dirk -- he's reinventing basketball. Dirk could have changed that. He could have tried to post Bowen up; he could have tried to attack Bowen off the dribble. Dirk played passively and passive players don't get calls in big games.

    Dirk doesnt get the respect he should and that's a shame. He doesnt get the respect that Parker, Ginobili, or Duncan get. I understand that that's what winning like SA has gets you, but it really sucks when your team is on the short end of that aspect of the game.
    That sounds like a lot of whining to me. Dirk got plenty of respect on the two consecutive calls he drew on Manu, but mentioning that would hurt your argument. What would be satisfactory -- should Dirk shoot 20 free throws a night as a demonstration that he is respected? If he chooses to hang out on the perimeter and shoot jumpers all night long, he's not going to get to the line, particularly when a defender like Bowen doesn't buy the upfake and maintains his defensive position.

    Besides, I had two Mavericks fans tell me last night that Dirk gets questionable calls because he's an elite player, and in the same breath tell me that Duncan doesn't get the same calls because he's not an elite player. Curious statement, I thought.

    I want to see Dirk use that against his opponents though. He needs to be able to get Bowen into foul trouble despite the hacking. That's the next step in his game and we'll see if Avery can teach him about that before the next meeting. Plain and simply, Dirk needs to be able to play through it and be smart enough to punish him for his dirty play to take the wind out of his sails. He didnt do that yesterday.
    If Bowen was dirty, you might have a point. He's physical and he's a great positional defender. Both of those things muck up finesse shooters who seek to find rhythm and space to score. Bowen affords them neither, which is why he's the best perimeter defender in the league. If Dirk attacked Bowen, he might get some calls; but he'd also risk being called for charges. And I'm not sure that AJ can teach Dirk that, when Dirk seemingly hasn't learned that yet in his career. If AJ can do in one month what no coach has been able to do in 7 or 8 years, I'd think AJ would be better served to devote that gift to teaching Dirk to play better man defense or teaching Dirk how to aggressively post smaller players to take advantage of a mismatch. Those would be far better uses of that skill.

    And besides, it's not as if Dirk never throws an elbow out to create space for himself; it's not as if Dirk never swipes through defenders to gain position; and it's not as if Dirk never flops in an effort to draw calls. Dirk is hardly some airy angel.

    I enjoyed the game and I hope that the rivalry grows a little bit after yesterday. Horry's bite is sure to garner alot of attention until next time. Stack is really upset about that. He's a fiery guy and I would expect him to come right at Horry next time. Horry got in a nice little cheap shot to Stack's head/neck that sparked the 'tangle' before the bite. Stack isnt the type of guy that lets that stuff slide. He'll carry that with him into the next game.
    If Stackhouse is worried about retribution against Horry, the Spurs have won that battle already.

    I think that Dallas would have won if their reserves and support players could have kept up with SA in the 2nd quarter when Dirk had to sit with the two fouls. Stack blocked a Finley dunk at the rim and hit some shots, Diop made a few plays, Damp caused Duncan some problems with his defense, Howard made a few plays, Terry made a few plays, KVH made a few plays, but they let the Spurs' defense get too comfortable and didnt take the ball at the rim enough. Not only that, but they let the Spurs' role players pick them apart on the other end. I think that this game will be a good learning tool for AJ to use moving forward.
    I think Dallas was fortunate to be up big in the 1st quarter, given the number of layups and dunks that the Spurs missed early. The Mavs shot well for most of the first half, while the Spurs hovered around 30%, largely because of the missed bunnies and point-blank shots. The Spurs were able to get to the rim and make things happen, but couldn't convert. I didn't see that as evidence of great defensive effort by the Mavericks -- it was more a laxness on the part of the Spurs. As the margin narrowed, I had the sense that the Spurs would make a run at some point and create some distance, and figured it would then be a matter of maintaining the gap. They started to convert the good looks they were getting and then hit some tougher shots in the 4th to seal the deal. The Spurs (Nazr Mohammed, in particular) were able to take advantage of some doubles on Tim to get scores, and Parker played a great 3rd quarter. Finley found some motivation in the 4th and kept the Spurs comfortable for the rest of the night.

    Good game, SA. You fought adversity better, executed your team defense better, were better coached, and beat the Mavs fair and square to draw your record even with Dallas. This was a big win for SA. I wouldnt be surprised to see them use this to bring momentum for the last third of the season. Good luck until Apirl 7th. I hope that Duncan's begins to play better so that we'll see more of impact from him in the next matchup. I want both of our teams to be full strength.
    I don't think the Spurs needed that game to gain momentum; I think it was more important to cast some doubt into the Mavericks' minds and to clinch no worse than a tie in the head-to-head series. If the 2nd tiebreaker is still conference record, the Spurs are now 5 up in that category, which makes them very hard to catch for the #1 seed. That part was big. The Spurs, however, have been playing noticably more inspired ball since the All-Star break, as is their annual custom under Popovich, so the notion of gaining some momentum from this particular win is somewhat fanciful.

    Still, I thought the game was a pretty good barometer of where these teams are and there is enough there to suggest that each has some room for improvement. I'd argue that the Spurs ceiling is still higher, given the relatively poor performances turned in by both Ginobili and Duncan, but time will tell.

    Please don't be shy to come around between now and 4/7, though.

  3. #3
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    True, in a sense, but most of his scoring came against guys not named Bowen. He had 23 points, but 7 of those came on free throws he got in drawing fouls on Ginobili (twice) and on Parker (behind the arc). Dirk also got a jumper in a scramble situation and had an uncontested put-back of an offensive rebound. I haven't broken down a tape or anything, but my math says that he got no more than 12 against Bowen, which is a remarkable effort by Bruce -- remarkable except that it's the second time this season that he's done that.
    You are right. Some guy at the game was doing the break down. Very little of Dirk's points were on Bruce. And that sequence against Ginobili was a little embarrassing. Bowen had to come right back in.

  4. #4
    Hey Bruce... Lebron is the Rock Sec24Row7's Avatar
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    To be fair to Ginobili, he should have split those two series with Dirk.

    Dirk fouled HIM the first time with the left forearm.

    Manu got in the air the second time.

  5. #5
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Completely stupid post of homerism, crying and excuse making disguised with a le of giving credit to the better team.

    I must say, I'm wholly unimpressed with all this defense the Mavericks are supposed to play. The Spurs came out taking terrible shots, making bad passes and got themselves into a 12 point hole. The Mavs defense had about as much to do with it as Dirk's foul trouble, since he got his second foul and sat with 3 minutes to go in the first and the Mavs proceeded to turn a five point lead into a 12 point lead with Dirk on the bench.

    From the time the Spurs decided to start playing, the game wasn't really close, even with their two best players having a bad game.

    As for the officiating, I'm puzzled as to how the Mavericks and their fans can continue to complain when they lose. The Mavericks push off to clear out defenders more than any team I've ever seen, and they complain about almost every whistle when it's against them and every non whistle when it isn't. As for the tussle between Horry and Stackhouse, it started on the other end of the floor. Stackhouse elbowed Horry in the ribs while he was blocking out. Horry pushed Stackhouse in the back at the other end and Stackhouse went right after Horry and the grappling started. Stackhouse clearly deserved the technical and calling a double-foul was a very nice way not to embarass Stackhouse who was just being a little that can't lose with any class.

    I'd love to be able to say "good game, Mavs", but nobody would be able to hear me over the constant blubbering.

  6. #6
    Spurs are Lottery Bound. SequSpur's Avatar
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    Manu needs to quit the gimmicks and play some ball.

  7. #7
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    To be fair to Ginobili, he should have split those two series with Dirk.

    Dirk fouled HIM the first time with the left forearm.

    Manu got in the air the second time.
    True. That push off from Dirk was horrible.

  8. #8
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    True. That push off from Dirk was horrible.
    But wait -- that can't be true. I keep hearing that Dirk doesn't get any respect from officials. Now I'm confused.

  9. #9
    Spurs are Lottery Bound. SequSpur's Avatar
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    Manu sucks.

    Nowitski is a 7 foot guard.

    WGAF.

    Dallas is out in the first round.

    Their defense was obsolete in the second half.

  10. #10
    Hey Bruce... Lebron is the Rock Sec24Row7's Avatar
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    Kori, Did you see Nazr get held underneath by Dampier that one play Where I think Teri hit a baseline 3 or long 2 in front of the Spurs bench?

    Baveta was right there and didn't call it. Dampier was basically holding Nazr's wrist with BOTH hands as Nazr was trying to get out to the wing.

    That was the most rediculous thing I saw all game.

  11. #11
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    That was the most rediculous thing I saw all game.

  12. #12
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Kori, Did you see Nazr get held underneath by Dampier that one play Where I think Teri hit a baseline 3 or long 2 in front of the Spurs bench?

    Baveta was right there and didn't call it. Dampier was basically holding Nazr's wrist with BOTH hands as Nazr was trying to get out to the wing.

    That was the most rediculous thing I saw all game.
    Man, officials miss calls. They also, sometimes, choose not to call certain things. We could sit here and pick apart the officiating all day long, but in reality, championship teams don't let officiating get to them. They play through it and find ways to win.

  13. #13
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Man, officials miss calls. They also, sometimes, choose not to call certain things. We could sit here and pick apart the officiating all day long, but in reality, championship teams don't let officiating get to them. They play through it and find ways to win.
    I'm not sure how anyone could make a convincing case that the officiating was even skewed one way or the other. Nobody is really happy with the calls in the game, which says to me that the officials did a pretty good job.

  14. #14
    Hey Bruce... Lebron is the Rock Sec24Row7's Avatar
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    Oh... I understand that. No worries... the refs are usually pretty good.

    I saw the Mavs get creamed several times. I watch Timmy and Rob hold all the time and get away with it because they usually do it close to the body.

    When Dirk fell into the Spurs bench, Finley grabbed the back of his shorts and held him for a while.

    I just thought that that ONE call was rediculously obvious because the ref was right there.

    Maybe he was looking at the corner, dunno... but it was going on at most 3 feet from him.

  15. #15
    redirkulous mavsfan1000's Avatar
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    I disagree on the spurs having a a higher ceiling as in the mavs didn't play like they usually do. They usually play better defense and they usually move the ball more. Devin Harris is the key to the mavs bench. He usually helps in both categories over what Terry does. Usually aggresive defenders get away with more since they are moving their feet as well. No surprise there that Dirk doesn't get many calls since Bowen is hustling and beating Dirk to spots.

  16. #16
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    THAT PHOTO IS OWNAGE!!!

  17. #17
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I disagree on the spurs having a a higher ceiling as in the mavs didn't play like they usually do.
    The Mavs don't usually play against the Spurs. The lack of Devin Harris is kind of lame, considering Duncan and Ginobili didn't play well and the Spurs still dismantled the Mavs.

  18. #18
    redirkulous mavsfan1000's Avatar
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    Well considering the rest of the spurs don't usually play that well. (Horry, Finley, and Mohammad) You can't underestimate a missing role player like Harris who has some of the same skills as Parker.

  19. #19
    Hey Bruce... Lebron is the Rock Sec24Row7's Avatar
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    What? Does he Rap?

    That has to be what you are talking about.

  20. #20
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Well considering the rest of the spurs don't usually play that well. (Horry, Finley, and Mohammad) You can't underestimate a missing role player like Harris who has some of the same skills as Parker.
    Harris sure was effective at stopping Parker in that December game in Dallas; and that 7 points he scored was electric.


  21. #21
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    Well considering the rest of the spurs don't usually play that well. (Horry, Finley, and Mohammad) You can't underestimate a missing role player like Harris who has some of the same skills as Parker.
    Could you just number your excuses and then site them, say "Excuse number 1008". That way you could save some time typing and we'd save time reading.

  22. #22
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    FWD, angryllama:

    I thought that was good talk

  23. #23
    9mm nkdlunch's Avatar
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    Manu on Nowitzki was a mistake. Manu is a freaking 6'6 guard. Nowitzki is ing 7 foot. in other words there is no way in Manu can guard nowitzki.

    I was surprised to see Dallas fold so quickly. Basically after the Spurs wiped out their lead, they looked like scared kittens out there. Scared of physical contact. This is the team expected to reach the finals??

  24. #24
    Man Oooo Geno Billy's Avatar
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    So did Horry cheap shot Stack prior to Stack throwing both forearms and elbows up into Horry's grille as the shot was going up?

  25. #25
    PhillyGirl 1Parker1's Avatar
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    Harris sure was effective at stopping Parker in that December game in Dallas; and that 7 points he scored was electric.



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