Mike Monroe: Back-to-back blasting

[spurschick]

San Antonio Express-News

The Spurs finished off their 13th set of back-to-back games Sunday night against the Houston Rockets.

They have only three left this season, which means they are in very good shape for the stretch run as they try to earn the top seed in the Western Conference, and maybe even home court advantage throughout the playoffs.

By now, everyone who pays even scant attention to the NBA knows more than half the Spurs' losses have come in the second game of back-to-back sets, though the reason for this is less evident.

Blame the aging process. Adding 35-year-old Nick Van Exel, 33-year-old Michael Finley and a 30-year-old rookie, Fabricio Oberto made the Spurs one of the league's older teams this year, plus Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili have battled injuries and need regular rest.

Whatever the cause, the Spurs' 4-8 mark in the second game of back-to-backs heading into Saturday's contest was much worse than last season's mark in second games, 10-9.

The Spurs haven't complained about their schedule being unfair. They have only 16 sets of back-to-backs, three fewer than last season. The Orlando Magic have more than any team, 21.

This isn't random schedule inequity. Because the TNT network made Thursday a night of TNT exclusivity — the only games played on Thursdays are the two the cable network airs — bad teams like the Magic and Hawks that rarely get scheduled on TNT have the bulk of their games crammed into a six-day week.

"Popular" teams, like the Spurs and Lakers, often have seven-day "work weeks."

In truth, it's the fans, not the teams, who ought to be angry about back-to-back games. That's because the product clearly suffers when one team, or both, is playing with any degree of fatigue.

Those who know the game best always can tell.

"You see the difference," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "You just can't bring the juice for 48 minutes. It shows in the discipline on the court and the execution on the court. If it was possible to change the entire schedule for everybody to have fewer of those, the quality would improve, without a doubt."

It might be possible if the league would consider adding one or two weeks to the regular season, and Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy suggests it wouldn't be the least bit difficult.

"It depends on what you want to do," Van Gundy said. "If that's your focus, you can do it. If you cut two weeks out of the preseason, those two weeks would cut down dramatically the number of back-to-backs you have.

"Everybody's ready to play after two weeks (of training camp and exhibition games) anyway. I think it would be good."

The fiscal health of the league doesn't hinge on the few exhibition games that would be eliminated. Van Gundy's idea seems worthy of consideration.

Van Gundy also suggests something he called "The Ironman Challenge." This would lump all the back-to-back games into a one-week stretch, with all teams playing seven nights in a row. Then, he said, there would be many more dates for the remaining 75 games.

Go ahead and presume Van Gundy was just trying to make a point with that wacky suggestion.

Van Gundy was deadly serious when he recommended that no team ever be scheduled to play the second game of a back-to-back set on its home court. The hometown fans, he said, always deserve to see a team's best effort.

He recommends making certain no team is completing a back-to-back set in a national TV game, too.

This, of course, isn't possible, but Van Gundy's point about serving the fans deserves more than a raised eyebrow in the league office.

Popovich has another suggestion that has significant merit, and could probably be accomplished by application of another parameter in the computer formula the league uses to help formulate the schedule each season.

The Spurs coach believes no team should be required to play the second game of a back-to-back set in a time zone east of its previous night's game.

That would eliminate situations like the Spurs faced a couple of weeks ago, when they arrived back in San Antonio after 3 a.m. after a late start in Phoenix the night before. They tipped off against the Lakers roughly 16 hours after landing at the airport.

The good news for the Spurs in the final month of this season: Their three remaining back-to-back sets are relatively easy.

Their next one involves a relatively short plane trip, from Portland to Seattle. The April 4-5 back-to-back gives them an extra hour on the trip from Salt Lake City to Sacramento. Same thing applies for their final back-to-back going from Minnesota to Salt Lake City, with an early start for the first of those games.

Of course, the Spurs lost to the Clippers at Staples Center one night after defeating the Lakers there. There was no plane trip in between those two.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/c...k.2e6a8b0.html

[whottt]

The Spurs used to rule the second night of back to backs....Last years 10-9 mark was subpar compared to their record in those games in previous years, in 03 we were like 21-4 or something on the second night of back to backs. And that 10-9 mark from last year doesn't mention that some of our best games last year were in the second night of a back to back...I think the back to back double OT wins were on consecutive nights.

It's never been a problem before this season...in fact in past years it has usually been an indicator of the teams' strength and mental toughness.

[NCaliSpurs]

The Spurs used to rule the second night of back to backs....Last years 10-9 mark was subpar compared to their record in those games in previous years, in 03 we were like 21-4 or something on the second night of back to backs. And that 10-9 mark from last year doesn't mention that some of our best games last year were in the second night of a back to back...I think the back to back double OT wins were on consecutive nights.

It's never been a problem before this season...in fact in past years it has usually been an indicator of the teams' strength and mental toughness.

We had 25 b2b games? I somehow doubt it.

[Rick Von Braun]

"It depends on what you want to do," Van Gundy said. "If that's your focus, you can do it. If you cut two weeks out of the preseason, those two weeks would cut down dramatically the number of back-to-backs you have.

This is a very good suggestion. Who cares about preseason games anyway?

[whottt]

We had 25 b2b games? I somehow doubt it.

or something

[Jimcs50]

Detroit has 21 back to backs, and Dallas has 19 this year, so the theory of good teams having 7 day work week is wrong.

They do not need this many back to backs.

There are times when SA does not play for 4 days or more. As JVG said, shorten the preseason, and make some other concessions, and you can keep the back to backs to a bare minimum. Also, never play a back to back where you play at home on the 2nd day....like the other night against the Lakers, where one of my employees went to the game and saw a horrible game, after spending a lot of money and time in going to SA for the game.

[picnroll]

After an intial 0-4 start in back to backs Spurs have gone 5-4. The only player by a long shot who has been consistent in the second game of back to backs is Parker. He had one stinker against Cleveland where he scored 4. and so so games of 10 and 14 points but in the other B to Bs he has had 17+ and usually 20 or more. Manu, TD, the bench is what isn't coming through more often than not.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We had a four day stretch without games earlier this year, also had a three day stretch, if memory serves me right.

You mean we get stuck playing b2b and have those breaks? Come on..

[Kori Ellis]

We had a four day stretch without games earlier this year, also had a three day stretch, if memory serves me right.

You mean we get stuck playing b2b and have those breaks? Come on..

True, the schedule is weird. For example, Seattle played on Thursday night and then they don't play again until Tuesday. And then they have a game on Wednesday. Why does that happen?

[whottt]

Spurs record in the second night B2B games since 02-03:

02-03: 12-5
03-04: 11-7
04-05: 10-9 Including winning a double ot on the road the night after a double ot on the road(and neither Manu nor Duncan played in the second game
). And we had a lot of b2b with Manu and or Duncan injured.


05-06: 5-8

Ok so after years where we had 17, 18, and 19 b2b's....we have 16 this year, an incredibly deep team, and are guranteed to finish with our worst record in b2b's in the last 4 years...

It's never been a problem before this year, even with tons of injuries...in fact the teams' performance in b2b's has usually been a bright spot...

Make of that what you will. I think it's a case of flipswitchitis.

[Kori Ellis]

It's never been a problem before this year, even with tons of injuries...in fact the teams' performance in b2b's has usually been a bright spot...

Make of that what you will. I think it's a case of flipswitchitis.

I think it really just has to do with the fact that Manu and Tim haven't been healthy all year this season. In past years, the Spurs had injuries here and there. But they never had 2 of their big 3 injured on an ongoing basis for months throughout the season. Add to that, an old bench and it's a recipe for disaster on backtobacks.

[picnroll]

It's not that complicated. Duncan is hobbled, particularly in back to backs. THat wasn't the case in past years.

[Fabbs]

San Antonio Express-News
"You see the difference," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "You just can't bring the juice for 48 minutes. It shows in the discipline on the court and the execution on the court. If it was possible to change the entire schedule for everybody to have fewer of those, the quality would improve, without a doubt."

Popovich has another suggestion that has significant merit, and could probably be accomplished by application of another parameter in the computer formula the league uses to help formulate the schedule each season.

The Spurs coach believes no team should be required to play the second game of a back-to-back set in a time zone east of its previous night's game.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/c...k.2e6a8b0.html

Also: Last week, Popovich said he had been considering holding both Ginobili and Tim Duncan out of the second game of the Spurs' remaining back-to-back sets of games. Duncan, in particular, has struggled in the second games of such combos this season. Popovich said Ginobili would have played had he been healthy.

So why is/was Pop being such a cement head about insisting Dunkar(31 minutes) and GNob (would have played) vs Houston?

[whottt]

00-01: 10-8
01-02: 15-5

Duncan may be hobbled this year...but he missed like 15 games last year, Manu was hobbled last year, Rasho missed games last year, Devin Brown missed games last year.

03-04 - Duncan was injured, Malik was injured.

02-03 - Manu was hobbled, Drob was injured, Speedy was injured.

01-02 - Bowen missed a ton of games, Drob missed some games. Not to mention that team wasn't very talented.

00-01 - AJ was injured. Malik was injured. Elliott was on one kidney...


And the simple fact is...on paper none of those teams were as talented as this one.

It's not a big deal, I mean this team is on pace for the best record in team history...but this idea that b2b's are this huge brutal thing doesn't hold much water...and there is no excuse for their record in these games other than the fact that they just haven't brought the effort on the second night like they have in previous years.

We have had fewer b2b this year than we have had any other season this century...we have a deeper team, and while Duncan may be hobbled...he's still in the lineup. As opposed to last year and the year before when he missed over 12 games each season. And it's not like we are losing all these b2b's to these great teams on the road...


This team just hasn't been as mentally tough in b2b's up to this point as previous Spurs teams...It's just that simple.

[Kori Ellis]

This team just hasn't been as mentally tough up to this point as previous Spurs teams...It's just that simple.

Ehh.. you may see it that way. I see it as Duncan and Ginobili have been hobbled from the start of this season and they have never got healthy. That's different than in past years when someone was out but then fully recovered later. Neither Duncan or Manu have got to that point this year. I thought Manu was getting closer, but now, who knows.

[whottt]

Ehh.. you may see it that way. I see it as Duncan and Ginobili have been hobbled from the start of this season and they have never got healthy. That's different than in past years when someone was out but then fully recovered later. Neither Duncan or Manu have got to that point this year. I thought Manu was getting closer, but now, who knows.

I'd argue that Duncan ever fully recovered last year...

I'd argue that Manu has ever been completely healthy during his Spurs career for a stretch of more than 10 or 15 games at the most...

Last year Duncan wasn't even in the lineup for 6 of our b2b...Manu was out of the lineup for 2 of them(both with Duncan out)...

We went 2-4 in the games Duncan wasn't even in the lineup...we went 1-1 in the games with both of them out...the loss was to Phoenix in Phoenix(right after the Malik trade) and we only lost by 6 points.

The win was the double OT against the Warriors on the road...Devin Brown and Rasho were also injured for that game.

No Rasho, no Duncan, No Manu, No Devin Brown, we win! And it was a double OT on the road the night after a double OT.


Sorry but hobbled may be one thing....but Duncan wasn't even in the lineup for 6 of those games last year and our winning PCT without him was about the same as it is this year with him playing, I believe, every one of our b2b...our winning PCT without he and Manu was better than it is this year when at least one of them has played in every one of our b2b's.

Last year we beat the Lakers on the second night of a b2b without Duncan...this year, we lose to them, at home, with both he and Manu playing...

This year, we lose to the Hawks with both of them playing...

No comparision and it's not just gimpiness...a hobbled Duncan is still better than no Duncan.

[T Park]

Lakers are a better team this year than last.

They lost to the Hawks last year and in 02 03, 03 04....

[Solid D]

Just think...only 6 of the losses by the Spurs this season were NOT on the 2nd game of a b2b.

[T Park]

yeah.

split those 8 losses, if you have a healthy Duncan.

your lookin at 56 and 10.

DAMN YOU PLANTAR!!!!!

[yeahone]

well we suck in b2b but got the best record in the west

[Obstructed_View]

True, the schedule is weird. For example, Seattle played on Thursday night and then they don't play again until Tuesday. And then they have a game on Wednesday. Why does that happen?

I don't know how the NBA comes up with the schedules, but...

Throw 31 arena schedules and 82 games into a computer, with requirements for division schedules and making sure to account for all the holidays, concerts, rodeos, previous commitments and you probably will get maybe a dozen different possibilities. You then have to throw out the ones that make the Celtics play 34 back to backs with 11 days off on two occasions. You then have to go through and find the big TV matchups, especially at the end of the year. The ones that are left have some strange things in them, but logistically it's pretty amazing that they can pull it off and keep it sort of fair.

[CubanMustGo]

Scheduling is a science (literally), and it ain't easy.

[ShoogarBear]

Scheduling is a science (literally), and it ain't easy.

Scheduling is a nearly impossible task, because of issues like travel, time zones, special requests (i.e., Rodeo Trip).

Utah, for example, doesn't want any Sunday home games because of the LDS population, so they have a lot of Monday home games (while almost nobody else in the NBA plays Mondays during football season).

I remember an article that said that computer algorithms can get you maybe 60-75% of the way, but evntually it all comes down to somebody doing it by hand.

[1Parker1]

^I'd apply for that job.