Greetings Spurs rooters et al. Fairly new poster.
Very happy with the season, esp the last week. Don't get me wrong.
But what we all want is another le, right. So improvement is a good thing.
Here is a disturbing situation i see as ongoing.
"Bricks" Finley the 1st half of the year was not good. Yes he filled in for GNob fantastically, but otherwise he was a bricklayer with no great D that i saw. Yet he got major minutes consistently. More then Shaggy Barry.
All Star break: Barry is essentially *told* "improve your game or you are toast with the Spurs." In fact he "was" toast with the Spurs, as it was New Oklahoma who screwed up the trade, or was it. Anyways, point being Brent knew he had to pick it up. Biggest consistent fault of his was being non assertive on offense, overpassing and not taking shots when he could.
Finley: Who knows what was or wasn't said at all stat break, but that leads us to
Post All Star Break.
Barry. Has been excellent all around. Not only taking shots, but creating his own shot. Both off the dribble and moving without the ball to the open spot. Defense and intangibles: Has been very good IMO. Key steals, great help D, a few timely blocks. Its been all good. I've always thought Barrys offensive mindset was in his head. He can create for himself and be a great passer AT THE SAME TIME in the same game. Witness Brent vs Clips this past week. Superb. Agreed?
Fins: He said the rest did him good, got his legs back. Since break is shooting much much better. Culminating with Clips game. Intangibles. I don't think Fins D and intangibles are any better then Barrys. I'm not dissing Fins, but I'm not gonna dis Barry either. I think D and intangibles are a wash.
So we leave off at the Clips game. Both Barry and Fins had great games. While on the floor together a lot of the game also.
Now here comes the double standard part. The very next night vs Lakers, Barry comes in mid 1st (or so). Does just what the Spurs wanted. Moves, creates, plays D. Hits a sweet jumper from the corner where, more importantly he faked a shot and then moved a couple dribbles over to get set for the shot. Finley meanwhile was having one of his brick games. Yet Barry gets taken out for VanEX (who sucked bad) and Finley stayed in. Barry got some garbage minutes in the 4th to make the final minutes look okay. But after his kick arse game vs Clips, combined with Fins off game during the Laker game, why does Barry get pulled?
Why is it that if Barry doesnt produce, he is out. If Fins bricks, he is guaranteed 20-24 minutes a night every night no matter what. Sure the Spurs are waiting for Fins to reach his potential and knock down some big playoff shots, as he has this second half. Well, what about Barry. He has the same potential IMO and has demonstrated it in last years playoffs.
Hmmn. Wasnt it Barry who just helped the Spurs to a tile? Especially vs Phx and Detroit, i thought Barry did very well. Again, why the "hook" looming over Barry but Fins seems to be given this guaranteed playingtime comfort level no matter what kind of a game and stretch he is having.
Asksing everyone but also Kori, do you ever get any tidbits on this subject?
Because Finley has proven that he can brick shots all night, but make a couple in key stretches in the 4th quarter, IE, the game against Golden State last week.
Barry on the other hand, lets his offense affect his defense.
Finley's D has improved since the beginning of the year to the point to where its DECENT.
Another Barry honk though I see has come in.
Phhhssssh. Finley got torched my MarshMello Anthony after Bowen went out.
And I've seen Finley miss plenty at the end this year also. He's hardly been a lock to hit em consistently at the end of games this year.
Repeat I'm all for both of them playing well, which they generally are since the break.
Well Im afraid to tell you, Brent Barry wouldn't do much better on Carmello afraid to break your heart.Finley got torched my MarshMello Anthony after Bowen went out.
And I've seen Finley miss plenty at the end this year also. He's hardly been a lock to hit em consistently at the end of games this year.
Won't see me argue against that.
But you gotta remember where Finley came from.
Dude averaged 18 to 20 shots a game in Dallas, now here hes averaging 12, some nights he only gets 6 or 8.
Finley is a volume shooter, in that, he can have a 10 of 20 night
but one half might be 5 of 15 the next half hes 5 of 5
Barry same way in Seattle, hence part of the reason why hes struggled IMO, BUT, Finley WILL shoot, Barry WONT, part of the reason i'll give Finley the nod, because he has the gonads to SHOOT, unlike Barry who at times, and has after the all star break, pass the ball up like a hot potato when given it.
IT DOESNT MATTER, ITS A TEAM BABY!
Nooo. Not since All star break. Maybe a few times Barry has reverted to overpassing but all in all he has been nails. 7-7 or so vs Seattle.
And is it gonards to shoot, or knowing he can brick and won't be pulled?
barry is afraid to shoot, thats the problem. even if he misses his first couple of shots, he hessitates the next when his open and passes it on.
Barry has had almost two whole seasons and a playoffs to show what he has.
I don't think it is wrong to give Finley the benefit of the doubt for at least half that time. Besides, Finley is the more talented of the two, and won't be afraid to shoot when it counts this post-season.
"give Finley the benefit of the doubt"
His career playoff numbers are below is career season numbers.
These playoffs as a Spur would be the perfect time for Michael to finally step up his playoff production.
Last edited by boutons_; 04-01-2006 at 02:13 PM.
I think Finley probably needed more PT simply to be able to get into the system. Barry already has that part down.
Since we got Finley, mainly for the playoffs, he needs all the time he can get to make the adjustments to fit in.
IMO that is why he got more minutes than Barry.
The only one I've seen Pop give any leeway as far as saying he has a double standard is Nick. Nick has a bad habit of taking bad shots especially from 3 pt range and so far this season I have yet to see Pop go off on him, especially on Nick's defensive lapses. And he has hung with him no matter how bad a game he is having, and that is why I just know that once the playoffs start Beno won't get off the bench unless Tony or Nick are injured or bad foul trouble.
Finley is ahead of Barry in the rotation.
Pretty simple.
Can't we like both? Is that too hard? One is a backup to Bruce, the other is a backup to Manu, and to me it doesn't matter which is which. If it was up to me, I'd play both between 16-18 mins a night, but it's not up to me.
The only guy on the team that gives me a facial tic when he comes in is NVE. I can't stand him. He's like our 5th best PG after Tony, Manu, Brent, and Beno. The only reason he's on the roster is because it was a package deal to get Fin, but I would not shed a single tear if he was in a suit the rest of the way.
Thank you.
My concern is if Finley does go Bricks in the playoffs. Is Pop prepared for that or is he going to sit and watch and insist Finley gets 20-24 minutes no matter what.
Yes we can absoulutely like both of them. Vs. Clips that was a game of beauty watching Fins and Barry work together.
Barrys hesitency to shoot is gonzo since the All Star break. Also in last years playoffs when it mattered, esp vs Phx he hit some big ones without hesitation. Plus while Tony Parker rules, it's nice to have a 6'7" Barry who can play the point excellently for spells. Take that, opponents with tall point guards like Shaun Livingston.
Sounds like we are all in concurance that NVE is the one thats sucking. Lets hope he can regain his game.
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Pop has simply given Michael the opportunity to learn the system and play within it. He gave Barry the same opportunity for the most part last year even when Devin Brown was playing better.
I don't have a double standard: I don't really like either one of them. I understand that they had adjustments to make coming off the bench, but an open jumper with the defense packed around Tim is just like practice. Sink the ing shot.
March stats for Hesitation Barry (16 mins a game) and newcomer Fins (25 min per).
fg %
B 41-79 52%
F 62-140 44%
That's about the same # of shots per minute with Barry hitting higher %. Great to see both of them up.
Treys
B 49% 23-47
F 40% 28-70
Again, per minutes about the same, yet Barry much higher.
Great to see them both up.
Assists
B 2.3
F 1.7
They both backup both Manu/Bowen. The swingspots are interchangable. In the playoffs, the Spurs like to go with a 3-man rotation at the swingspots. Manu and Bowen will up their minutes in the playoffs and there should be about 20 minutes available total for Finley/Barry.
That's not the case. They went after NVE because they weren't confident in Beno. Getting NVE wasn't necessary to get Finley. Michael has said several times that it was Duncan's call that helped him get here. NVE called him but didn't say/influence much.The only guy on the team that gives me a facial tic when he comes in is NVE. I can't stand him. He's like our 5th best PG after Tony, Manu, Brent, and Beno. The only reason he's on the roster is because it was a package deal to get Fin, but I would not shed a single tear if he was in a suit the rest of the way.
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