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I leave in Barry. He seems determined to show his stuff. Finley getting 30 mintues is a bit too high IMO. Him and Barry will split those minutes backing up Tony, Manu and Bruce.
Preseason is over. The real season is now starting.
How would you distribute the minutes in the playoffs? Here's what I'm thinking:
STARTERS
C Nazr Mohammed -- 20
PF Tim Duncan -- 38
SF Bruce Bowen -- 34
SG Manu Ginobili -- 32
PG Tony Parker -- 38
BENCH
PF Robert Horry -- 28
SF Michael Finley -- 30
PG Nick Van Exel -- 10
That's a pretty nice eight man rotation. I'm not a fan of a nine man rotation in the playoffs, but it was difficult to leave off Brent Barry. If Pop wants to do nine, then splitting those minutes 20 and 10 between Finley and Barry could work.
I leave in Barry. He seems determined to show his stuff. Finley getting 30 mintues is a bit too high IMO. Him and Barry will split those minutes backing up Tony, Manu and Bruce.
I see Bruce and Michael giving up some of those minutes to Brent.
Nothing wrong with a 9-man rotation in the first 2 rounds, even thru WCF vs Suns.
It will be very interesting to see how Pop distributes Finals minutes, which I bet he won't decide until he gets there.
Last edited by boutons_; 04-19-2006 at 11:49 PM.
Dude, Brent Barry is going to play more minutes than that.
I see Michael giving up some minutes to Barry. But I don't see Bruce playing less than 34. They'll run something like a 8 1/2 man rotationWith one of Barry or Fin getting less minutes depending on production.
brent gonan get around 2o minutes a game
It probably all depends on matchups. I'd be suprised if Tony/Manu/Tim play much less than 40 a game though if the games are competetive. This isn't some regular season crap. Gotta leave it all out on the court.
I don't know if we can even average 20 out of Nazr unless he steps it up.
And I agree there's got to be 10-15 minutes for Brent, even if it's only every other game or so.
I think you are 10 minutes short on your PF/C rotation timvp. 48 minutes for each pos ion X2 equals 96 minutes. Your rotation of Nazr/Tim/Horry is only playing 86 minutes, so either I'm misunderstanding or you miscalculated.
STARTERS
Nazr Mohammed - 26
Tim Duncan - 40
Bruce Bowen - 34
Emanuel Ginobili - 30
Tony Parker - 38
BENCH
Robert Horry - 30
Michael Finley - 26
Nick Van Exel - 10
Brent Barry - 6
PS - I would prefer to see Horrys minutes down around 26 and Nazrs around 22, but that would mean the Spurs would need 8 more minutes play at the PF/C slot, and in the playoffs I don't trust Rasho.
Nice catch. Damn, that's going to make it tougher.
STARTERS
C Nazr Mohammed -- 20
PF Tim Duncan -- 38
SF Bruce Bowen -- 34
SG Manu Ginobili -- 32
PG Tony Parker -- 38
BENCH
PF Robert Horry -- 28
SF Michael Finley -- 25
SG Brent Barry -- 15
PG Nick Van Exel -- 10
I wouldn't mind something like this. It requires some small ball, but the Spurs have been doing that all season. Kenny Thomas, Dirk Nowitzki and whoever the Suns throw out there can be guarded by Bowen and/or Finley.
It's scary how many minutes Nazr is going to have to buy the Spurs. Either that or Rasho is going to have to prove that he's capable of playing in the playoffs.
But then you are talking about a nine or ten man rotation and that just doesn't work in the playoffs.
Rasho should get 48 MPG!!!
[/Slovienian Posters]
I am a lot more comfortable with 9 or 10 than I am with the 7 we had to use last year.
I don't think it's so much that 9 or 10 men rotations don't work in the playoffs, so much as most teams don't usually have the talent, willingness to set aside egos, and ability to play reduced minutes, to go 9 or 10 deep in the playoffs. This team does.
I have a feeling that Barry is going to wind up getting minutes no matter what...
#1. He was pretty much the entire backcourt and swing rotation during last years le run.
#2. When Pop was asked yesterday who he was expecting to be the X-Factor he mentioned Barry. He pretty much called Barry out...Barry plays well when he is called out. Thing is...Pop didn't call Barry out to be a scorer...he called him out for 3's(of course), but he also called him out for his passing and rebounding. I don't think Pop aske for passing from Barry a single time last year...he's got him figured out now....what he can do. In a way I think Finley is part of the reason Barry is more comfortable now...he knows he doesn't have to be a scorer, and he also knows that he can still get court time even if he isn't.
#3. Finley and Van Exel...
Finley: I like Finley, he really is a good guy and he plays hard. Unfortunatley I am very aware of his playoff history...There is going to come a time(probably several of them) in these playoffs where Pop is going to have to make the call on whether or not to go with a cold shooting Finley, or Barry, who can still do stuff to crank the offense up shot or no shot. I hope Pop has seen Finley play enough to know what decision he needs to make when that time comes. It's not like Finley's track record is a mystery...he's not an unknown quan y, and it's not like he hasn't played on talented teams.
NVE - Man I whiffed on Van Exel. He's really lost quite a bit...way more than I thought. Still...I think he's got just a little left and he's been saving it...NVE has too much pride to totally coattail a ring...he's yet to play his best basketball this season...we'll get that in these playoffs....IMO, there's not doubt that he'll either win a game for us, or at least gets us back in one from a huge deficit.
Even still...no matter what he's got left, or how well he plays this post season, he's gonna get yanked several times in this post season for playing bad d or taking bad shots...It won't be that Pop hates him or anything...it's just Pop being Pop in the playoffs. He's gonna get yanked, and I expect that if Pop needs a backup PG in a high pressure situation, he's going to go with Barry over Beno. He might go with Beno once...then he'll figure it out.
Barry has been used this year as I wanted him to be used last year...as offensive grease...not necessarily a 20 mpg spot up shooter and scorer. He' adjusted to that role though, but he's also not asked to do what he was asked to do last year. Pop realizes he can do more than just shoot threes, can help the team without being a scorer, and I think Pop also realized he's not exactly a scorer...
So IMO, Barry will get minutes if only because he earned them last year, he is more comfortable in his role, and Pop has a better grasp on how to use him(and motivate him). Plus he's shooting threes at a 50% clip over the last few weeks or so.
I think we will have a 9 man rotation, or really close to it. And I think that gives us the best opportunity to repeat.
Last edited by whottt; 04-20-2006 at 02:37 AM.
I've never seen an NBA team go 10 deep in the playoffs and win an NBA championship.I don't think it's so much that 9 or 10 men rotations don't work in the playoffs, so much as most teams don't usually have the talent, willingness to set aside egos, and ability to play reduced minutes, to go 9 or 10 deep in the playoffs. This team does.
In 1999, the Spurs had an 8 man rotation of Robinson, Duncan, Elliott, Elie, Johnson, Rose, Jackson, AD/Kerr.
In 2003, the Spurs had an 8 man rotation of Robinson, Duncan, Bowen, Jackson, Parker, Rose, Ginobili, Claxton.
In 2005, the Spurs had an 8 man rotation of Mohammed, Duncan, Bowen, Ginobili, Parker, Horry, Barry, Udrih.
It's just not Pop's way to go 9 or 10 deep throughout the playoffs. That said, I WANT Barry to be in the rotation. And since the Spurs will go small a lot, I think he'll get a fair chance to show what he can do.
As far as Finley goes, I'm just hoping that either Finley or Barry show up. If they both do, which is very unlikely, the Spurs could breeze to a championship.
A big difference in Barry this year is that after the near trade, he stopped playing as scared. For his first year and a half on the team, he was scared to make mistakes.Barry has been used this year as I wanted him to be used last year...as offensive grease...not necessarily a 20 mpg spot up shooter and scorer. He' adjusted to that role, and limited minutes, and Pop realizes he can do more than just shoot threes, and I think Pop also realized he's not exactly a scorer...
Now he plays like he doesn't GAF. He just goes out there and plays. It's not really something you can see in numbers, but he's playing now like I thought he'd play when the Spurs signed him.
STARTERS
C Nazr Mohammed -- 15
PF Tim Duncan -- 38
SF Bruce Bowen -- 34
SG Manu Ginobili -- 32
PG Tony Parker -- 38
BENCH
PF Robert Horry -- 28
SF Michael Finley -- 28
SG/PG Brent Barry -- 17
C Rasho -- 7
everyone else gets microminutes
oh and: Rasho should get 48 MPG!!!
Unlikely, but IMO, more likely than we thought earlier in the year.I'm just hoping that either Finley or Barry show up. If they both do, which is very unlikely
If Barry can just stay agressive for pete's sake, and Finley keeps that confidence up, I don't see why they cant...
This might be the year Pop goes crazy with his rotations. Everyone is relatively healthy and prone to sucking at any given minute.
Come to think of it...I am not sure I have ever seen a team doing it going 10 deep either. Some of those 60 Celtics teams might have done it though, just to make sure all of their HOF'ers got court time.
A 9 man rotation OTOH I have seen...and I've seen in done on some teams that were dynasties...like the 99-00 Lakers...mebbe the 00-01 Lakers as well.
IIRC the 99-00 Lakers had Shaq, Rice, Kobe, Horry, Harper, Shaw, Fisher, Fox, and AC Green all getting substantial minutes.
I think some of Jackson's Bulls teams did it as well...they might not have had 9 guys getting at least 10 mins a game but I am sure a few of those teams had 9 guys that got consistent minutes and had a consistent role.
Jackson also has typically deep regular season rotations.
10 maybe...but I don't think he's ever really had a team he was comfortable going 9 deep with...It's just not Pop's way to go 9 or 10 deep throughout the playoffs. That said, I WANT Barry to be in the rotation. And since the Spurs will go small a lot, I think he'll get a fair chance to show what he can do.
Does this team have 9 guys that Pop knows he can put in and know he can win a championship with or at least be comfortable with? Well he likes Finley and Van Exel, and he knows he can do it with Barry, hence 9...he's got options and I think he'll be comfortable using them. I don't think he's going to like the play of Finley or Van Exel enough to stay at an 8 man rotation for the entire playoffs, he's going to have Barry as an option and I think he'll take advantage of that. Maybe not...
I can't see too many games where Finely, Van Ex and Barry are all cold from 3(at least not until Detroit)...as long as one of those guys is clicking from range our O should run smoothly...or in Van Ex's case...his tear drop too.As far as Finley goes, I'm just hoping that either Finley or Barry show up. If they both do, which is very unlikely, the Spurs could breeze to a championship.
One thing Finley can do...he can help us get a lot more easy wins than we usually get. I'm just not sold on him in pressure situations.
The best part about Barry is the versatility he brings you. You are going to have to go small for some times in the games, but you can afford it, especially in the first round. You force the other teams to play to what you have the floor, not the other way around. Barry and Finley will be a bit interchangable, depending on who is playing the best on a given night, that guy will see the most minutes. Nazr needs to give you somewhere between 20-25 somewhat productive minutes and you will be ok. It worked last year, no reason to think he can't at least not totally embarass himself again this year in the same situation. That being said, I'll go with this....
Nazr - 22
Tim - 38
Bruce - 35
Manu - 31
Tony - 37
-------
Horry - 29
Finley - 24
Barry - 15
Van Exel - 9
I think my math is right there.
You all will be surprised how many minutes Rasho will have.
No Dre7, not 48 but more than Nazr (except if Spurs will play against Suns too).
Last year Barry won about 4 or 5 games for us...many of those with Duncan on the IR...
This year he hasn't won a single game for us and has faced no pressure.
Now he plays like he doesn't GAF. He just goes out there and plays. It's not really something you can see in numbers, but he's playing now like I thought he'd play when the Spurs signed him.
And plus NVE and Finley do what everyone wanted Barry to do last year,(chuck shots)...so the crappy shot quota is being filled by other players(players who are this years targets of board discontent).
Barry isn't asked to be the bench scorer like he was last year, he hasn't faced a shred of pressure this year...and this team hasn't faced the challenges that last years team did.
I know Duncan and Manu were gimpy...but Manu is always gimpy, and gimpy Duncan is better than no Duncan, an no Duncan was what we had a record amount of last year...plus Parker is a stud this year.
As for the trade making the difference...It probably made some, but I think Barry responded well to pressure last year...I think he responded when he was called out last year, he responded when players got physical with him las year, he just didn't always respond by turning into a scorer...he hasn't this year either.
And he can average 20ppg for the rest of the playoffs and win the finals MVP, but barring an all time choke by Finley, he's still going to be traded if there is anyway humanly possible for the Spurs to do it...and he knows it. So it's not like he's playing this way to avoid a trade...there is no pressure on him now...last year there was, last year we won a le BTW, and he was part of the reason.
The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 10-11 deep. It was considered revolutionary at the time, and credited as one of the reasons for their upset sweeping of the Bullets in the Finals that year.
They had 11 players play at least 13 of their 17 playoff games. Of those 11, only one averaged less than 10 MPG.
Player/Games/MPG
Rick Barry 17/43
Jamaal Wilkes 17/30
Charles Johnson 17/30
Clifford Ray 17/29
Butch Beard 17/26
George Johnson 17/19
Jeff Mullins 17/18
Derrek ey 15/17
Phil Smith 17/15
Bill Bridges 14/11
Charles Dudley 13/9
Steve Bracey 4/4
Last edited by ShoogarBear; 04-20-2006 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Derrick Dickey listed twice
Trip down memory lane shoog? :p
Surely the reason teams tend to go only 8 deep is because of the talent drop off right? However given the talent this team has aquired. That talent drop off doesn't happen until a little further down the bench, I dont see the problem with a rotation of 9 theres still enough minutes to get everybody into the flow of the game if managed properly.
Nazr - Duncan
Duncan - Horry - Finley
Bowen - Finley - Barry
Manu - Barry - Finley
Parker - Van X - Barry
With Finley, Barry, Van X, and Horry as the primary contributors off the bench. Rasho and Fabricio to play spot mins. at the pivot as required.
I always have to debate whether the need to educate you children is worth the abuse.
Somewhat, but players and coaches will say that you need to get at least X number of minutes for get a rhythm, and so giving too many players too few minutes is not a good thing.Surely the reason teams tend to go only 8 deep is because of the talent drop off right?
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