Rummy P3ownd!!

[Nbadan]

doah!!

Speaking in Atlanta today, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was sharply questioned about his pre-war claims about WMD in Iraq. An audience member confronted Rumsfeld with his 2003 claim about WMD, “We know where they are.” Rumsfeld falsely claimed he never said it. The audience member then read Rumsfeld’s quote back to him, leaving the defense secretary speechless.

Of course, Rumsfeld did say he knew where the WMD were. From ABC’s This Week, 5/4/03:

STEPHANOPOULOS: And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction?

SEC. RUMSFELD: …We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Read the full transcript HERE.Think Progress

[Oh, Gee!!]

Jerry, just remember. It's not a lie... if you believe it.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Weapons of Mass DestructiOwN3d

[SA210]

video link

I love how Rummy was at a loss of words.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...otests.mxf.cnn


::crickets::

[boutons_]

rummy = war criminal for starting a phony war

[Nbadan]

, on the local news blimps they stopped reporting this story after mentioning that Rummy said, "I did not lie", so most people in South Texas don't even know the full story of what took place after.

[SA210]

, on the local news blimps they stopped reporting this story after mentioning that Rummy said, "I did not lie", so most people in South Texas don't even know the full story of what took place after.

"I did not lie" was a lie.

[JoeChalupa]

I watched the clip for some reason I kept switching to FauxNews but didn't see it being reported? That damn liberal media!!!!

[Yonivore]

I just watched their footage at the FoxNews Website. I can't imagine they'd post footage they didn't air.


Follow the "VIDEO" Link (far right selection in the red banner across the top) and look for this picture. Two minutes long. I wonder how much of the exchange was shown on the other networks and how it might have been edited.

[SA210]

I just watched their footage at the FoxNews Website. I can't imagine they'd post footage they didn't air.


Follow the "VIDEO" Link (far right selection in the red banner across the top) and look for this picture. Two minutes long. I wonder how much of the exchange was shown on the other networks and how it might have been edited.

Nice try Yoni,

but that Faux video link for some reason is edited. It doesn't show when Rummy was at a loss for words for that long period of time when the gentleman quoted Rummy stating they knew where the WMD's were after Rummy told him he hasn't lied and those were not his words.

Strange.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, there you go again. It was NOT edited and showed the entire exchange between Rummy and the retired CIA dude, sorry can't recall his name. No editing was necessary at all.
Why can't you just admit that Rummy got pwned? It really isn't hard to do and nobody will accuse of abandoning your loyal support for Rummy and Bush.

[SA210]

Transcript

QUESTION: So I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people, why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? why?

RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven’t lied. I did not lie then. Colin Powell didn’t lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate, and he presented that to the United Nations. the president spent weeks and weeks with the central intelligence people and he went to the american people and made a presentation. i’m not in the intelligence business. they gave the world their honest opinion. it appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.

QUESTION: You said you knew where they were.

RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and –

QUESTION: You said you knew where they were Tikrit, Baghdad, northeast, south, west of there. Those are your words.

RUMSFELD: My words — my words were that — no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second.

de..de..de.......d...d.dd..d.........

::crickets::

OWNED!!

[Ocotillo]

Time for the old man to go. Maybe if we can get him out before the election Bush will appoint Lieberman and we can replace Lieberman with a real Democrat.

[xrayzebra]

"I did not lie" was a lie.

Takes one to know one. Oh, am I am a Native American, I was borned in
Texas and raised in Texas and still live in Texas. Are you?

[FromWayDowntown]

Transcript

QUESTION: So I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people, why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? why?

RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven’t lied. I did not lie then. Colin Powell didn’t lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate, and he presented that to the United Nations. the president spent weeks and weeks with the central intelligence people and he went to the american people and made a presentation. i’m not in the intelligence business. they gave the world their honest opinion. it appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.

QUESTION: You said you knew where they were.

RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and –

QUESTION: You said you knew where they were Tikrit, Baghdad, northeast, south, west of there. Those are your words.

RUMSFELD: My words — my words were that — no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second.

de..de..de.......d...d.dd..d.........

::crickets::

OWNED!!

The exchange was interesting. What was more interesting was the coverage that showed Rumsfeld saying, verbatim, all of the things the questioner pounded him about. It was pretty damning to see Rumsfeld denying he ever said such things, only to see visual proof that he had. I don't see how that can be anything other than embarassing to the administration; I can also see why some would choose to deduce from that exchange that the Administration has been less-than-forthcoming in a variety of ways.

Rumsfeld either lied or he has an extremely short memory.

[FromWayDowntown]

I just watched their footage at the FoxNews Website. I can't imagine they'd post footage they didn't air.


Follow the "VIDEO" Link (far right selection in the red banner across the top) and look for this picture. Two minutes long. I wonder how much of the exchange was shown on the other networks and how it might have been edited.

I saw the entire 2 minute exchange on CNN last night.

I also saw that the questioner stopped asking questions when asked to and that he sat down and civilly listened to the remainder of Rumsfeld's talk. To Rumsfeld's credit, he had an out when the guy was apparently going to be escorted out of the hall; the Secretary, however, asked that the questioner be permitted to stay.

He's a former CIA analyst -- what could he possibly know? Now he's a traitor too. Questioning the Secretary about such things -- riduculous!

[Ocotillo]

He's a former CIA analyst -- what could he possibly know? Now he's a traitor too. Questioning the Secretary about such things -- riduculous!

He joins a long list of people who all of sudden hate America.

Richard Clarke
Joe Wilson
the first Secretary of Treasury under 43
Lawerence Wilkerson
the list goes on.......

[Yonivore]

Liberal Blogger Andrew Sullivan says the man who heckled Rummy was...

...not some crazed lefty. The man who demanded that Rumsfeld answer the questions we all want to have answered turns out to be the man who gave former president George H. W. Bush his daily intelligence briefing. And he was right in the exchange; and Rummy was factually wrong. Yep: Rumsfeld lied. Quelle surprise.

No not some crazed lefty. The man was Ray McGovern, who Conservative Blogger Sweetness and Light noticed awhile back was part of Daniel Ellsberg's Truth Telling Project. At the time, Sweetness & Light was commenting that the press had quoted two former counterterrorism experts in defense of Mary McCarthy but omitted one interesting detail, which may or may not be relevant. Here's ABC News report quoting the first expert, Ray McGovern to the effect that McCarthy had a higher duty to "defend the cons ution".

To supporters, McCarthy is a woman of conviction who exposed actions she believed were against the law.

"This a matter of principle," said Ray McGovern, a former fellow CIA analyst, "where she said my oath, my promise not to reveal secrets is superceded by my oath to defend the cons ution of the U.S." ...

Then Sweetness and Light notices that both Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson are associated with Daniel Ellsberg's The Truth-Telling Project. For those who are unfamiliar with the name Daniel Ellsberg, here's the Wikipedia entry.

Daniel Ellsberg (born April 7, 1931) is a former American military analyst who precipitated a national uproar in 1971 when he released the Pentagon Papers, the US military's account of activities during the Vietnam War, to The New York Times. His release of the Pentagon Papers succeeded in substantially eroding public support for the war.

Ray McGovern's role is described on this Truth-Telling Project web page.

The Truth-Telling Coalition, comprised of high-level national security truth-tellers, as well as non-profit whistleblower organizations, provides a personal and legal support network for each other and for government insiders considering becoming truth-tellers. Current coalition members include Sibel Edmonds, Daniel Ellsberg, Frank Grevil, Katharine Gun, Ray McGovern, Coleen Rowley, the Project on Government Oversight, and the ACLU. (Bios and info on members will be available on the Truth-Telling Coalition Website, currently under construction.) To see press coverage of the Truth-Telling Coalition, see the Press Coverage page.

While watching the video I fully expected Rummy to be massacred inside McGovern's kill-zone since McGovern had the ability to choose the very specific ground on which to challenge Rumsfeld. The verbatim transcript of the exchange is below.

Ray McGovern: "So I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people, why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? why?"

Secretary Rumsfeld: "Well, first of all, I haven’t lied. I did not lie then. Colin Powell didn’t lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate, and he presented that to the United Nations. the president spent weeks and weeks with the central intelligence people and he went to the american people and made a presentation. i’m not in the intelligence business. they gave the world their honest opinion. it appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction there."

Ray McGovern: "You said you knew where they were."

Secretary Rumsfeld: "I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and –"

Ray McGovern: "You said you knew where they were Tikrit, Baghdad, northeast, south, west of there. Those are your words.

Secretary Rumsfeld: "My words — my words were that — no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second."

Ray McGovern: "This is America."

Secretary Rumsfeld: "You’re getting plenty of play, sir."

Ray McGovern: "I’d just like an honest answer."

Secretary Rumsfeld: "I’m giving it to you."

Ray McGovern: "Well we’re talking about lies and your allegation there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq."

Secretary Rumsfeld: "Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a fact."

Ray McGovern: "Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That’s also…"

Secretary Rumsfeld: "He was also in Baghdad."

Ray McGovern: "Yes, when he needed to go to the hospital.

"Come on, these people aren’t idiots. They know the story."

(PROTESTER INTERRUPTS)

Secretary Rumsfeld: "Let me give you an example.

"It’s easy for you to make a charge, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform every day, when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective suits? Because they liked the style?"

(LAUGHTER)

"They honestly believed that there were chemical weapons."

(APPLAUSE)

"Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons on his own people previously. He’d used them on his neighbor (AUDIO GAP) the Iranians, and they believed he had those weapons."

"We believed he had those weapons."

Ray McGovern: "That’s what we call a non sequitur. It doesn’t matter what the troops believe; it matters what you believe."

The Moderator: "I think, Mr. Secretary, the debate is over. We have other questions, courtesy to the audience."

The counterfactual which proves Rumsfeld "lied" is this cited exchange from a DOD briefing:

George Stephanopouos: "And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction?"

Secretary Rumsfeld: " …We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

But the citation is not complete. If you read the full exchange, which took place at a briefing on March 30,2003 it will be abundantly clear Rumsfeld made these statements when neither Tikrit and Baghdad were in Coalition hands. Baghdad fell on April 8, 2003, more than a week after this exchange between Rumsfeld and Stephanopoulos. Tikrit fell even later. The verbatim exchange is given below..

Secretary Rumsfeld: "Yeah. Do it. His cir stance is not a happy one. We're within 49 miles of Baghdad. He's being closed on from the north, south, and there's so many people running around hyper-ventilating that things aren't going well. This plan is working."

George Stephanopoulos: "Finally, weapons of mass destruction. Key goal of the military campaign is finding those weapons of mass destruction. None have been found yet. There was a raid on the Answar Al-Islam Camp up in the north last night. A lot of people expected to find ricin there. None was found. How big of a problem is that? And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven't found any weapons of mass destruction?"

Secretary Rumsfeld: "Not at all. If you think -- let me take that, both pieces -- the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

And, now, for the rest of the story:

Secretary Rumsfeld (continued): "Second, the [audio glitch] facilities, there are dozens of them, it's a large geographic area. It is the -- Answar Al-Islam group has killed a lot of Kurds. They are tough. And our forces are currently in there with the Kurdish forces, cleaning the area out, tracking them down, killing them or capturing them and they will then begin the site exploitation. The idea, from your question, that you can attack that place and exploit it and find out what's there in fifteen minutes."

And now for the money quote -- stated way back on March 30, 2003 and immediately after the line McGovern used in his attempt to prove Secretary Rumsfeld lied:

Secretary Rumsfeld (continued): "I would also add, we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know. The exploitation is just starting."

Ray McGovern had plenty of time to do what I just did, to examine the transcript above. Go ahead, do it yourself...follow the links.

It's abundantly clear from the transcript that Rumsfeld had only intelligence indications that the WMD were "in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat". It was clearly a statement of belief that the WMDs would be found there. He also categorically warned Stephanopoulous the WMDs might not be found at all. "I would also add, we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know. The exploitation is just starting."

None of this means the points which Ray McGovern raised were invalid. But it is not obviously the case that Rumsfeld knew for a fact the WMDs would not be found in Tikrit, Baghdad, etc ... and lied about it. Rumsfield may have lied at some other time on some other subject, although I doubt it, but the proof is not to be found in the exchange above -- which is the "proof" McGovern used in his exchange.

What would be more convincing is some kind of do ent which indicated intelligence believed they would not be found in Tikrit, Baghdad and other suspect places and that Rumsfeld maintained the contrary. But the exchange above actually supports Rumsfeld's assertion that he maintained they were "suspect sites" rather than sites in which he had definite knowledge of their location. I think the assertion that McGovern "proved" that Rumsfeld lied is simply an assertion. And no, Ray McGovern was not some "crazed lefty". He was the best the Left had to prove that Rumsfeld lied fighting on his chosen ground. And he didn't prove anything.

[Vashner]

Don't with the Rummy es.

[Nbadan]

Secretary Rumsfeld (continued): "I would also add, we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know. The exploitation is just starting."

Oh god, not this again. Yeah, it was in the press alright. Worldnetdaily, FAUX News, and Newsmax

[Nbadan]

So according to Yoni, the Iraqi's moved, dare I say, destroyed, the suspected WMD's "around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Just to embarrass Rummy.

Could happen.

[Nbadan]

Current coalition members include Sibel Edmonds, Daniel Ellsberg, Frank Grevil, Katharine Gun, Ray McGovern, Coleen Rowley, the Project on Government Oversight, and the ACLU

Yoni should have spent some time googling Sibel Edmonds.

[George W Bush]

Rummy shoulda only spoke in front of troops like I do.
That's how I roll.



I'm George W Bush and I approve this message

[Mr. Peabody]

Liberal Blogger Andrew Sullivan says the man who heckled Rummy was...

Did you just cut and paste this guy's entire blog entry? Is one word of that entire post actually your original thought?

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Yoni hasn't had an original thought in years.