Reply With Quote
Shaq >>>>>>>>> Duncan
/end of thread
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere -- I couldn't find it, so I went ahead.
Link
The NBA has come out with a list of the 60 greatest playoff moments, and has revealed them in order from 11-60 (the voting on 1-10 is still ongoing, apparently). The list includes the Memorial Day Miracle and Rob's Dagger in Detroit (along with various other of Robert Horry's Greatest Hits). It also includes .4, as one might expect.
One thing that struck me in reviewing the list was this:
Which of these two is a better "moment":
Player A goes for 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists and 8 blocks in Game 2 of the Finals to tie the series at 1-1.
Player B goes for 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in Game 6 of the Finals to clinch the series 4-2.
In the rankings, Player B (Tim Duncan, 2003 Finals) effort gets #47 on the list. Player A (Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals) gets #37 on the same list.
Shaq >>>>>>>>> Duncan
/end of thread
Dream on..
shaq in his whole career is WAY better than duncan.
The issue with Shaq and Tim notwithstanding, I think the list is an interesting walk down playoff history. So many compelling stories, monsterous performances, and huge shots.
Perhaps. But is Shaq's performance in Game 2 of the 2001 Finals a better performance -- a greater moment -- than Tim's epic in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals? The panelists thought so; I'm guessing based on the notion that Shaq>Tim. I'd dispute it, but I'm not terribly objective about it, either.
I rated Horry's shot over Sean's too, and I was in vast minority in here. Looks like I was right afterall.
25. Robert Horry 3-Pointer Vs. Pistons; Game 5, 2005 Finals
Robert Horry delivers yet another memorable playoff moment, leading the Spurs to a double OT win and a 3-2 Series lead. In what will go down as one of the great clutch performances of all-time, "Big-Shot Rob" scores all 21 of his points in the fourth quarter and overtime, including a 3-pointer with 5.8 seconds remaining, to give the Spurs a 96-95 victory at the Palace, where the Pistons had been 63-19 over the past two regular seasons. Despite Detroit’s Game 6 bounce-back win, the Spurs would end any thoughts Detroit had of back-to-back championships, as they closed it out in front of the home crowd, 81-74.
54. Sean Elliott's Memorial Day Miracle; Game 2, 1999 Western Conference Finals
Having trailed by as many as 18 points late in the third quarter, and down 85-83 with 12 seconds remaining, Sean Elliott produced one of the most memorable plays in Spurs history. Elliott, coming off a screen in the low post, took a pass that was nearly picked off by Portland's Stacey Augmon. Elliott's momentum carried him to the sideline, where he pirouetted to avoid stepping out of bounds. On his toes and with little time to set himself, Elliott let fly from the corner. The ball dropped through, putting the Spurs up 2-0 in the series and serving as momentum that would result in the first ever le for David Robinson and the Spurs.
those are both some great stats though.
In NBA history, I'd say your right -- for the same reasons that I think Tim's near quad should be rated higher than Shaq's.
In Spurs history, though, I think Sean's is clearly the bigger shot.
Tim's shot right before .4 was so amazing. That would've been one of the greatest in Spurs history had Fisher not ruined it.
Yep, that and Manu's 3 in game 7 . . .
.04
BTW, I wonder what #1 will be...
Wow I still get goose bumps watching all three of those videos.. I have a feeling we have another run in us..maybe two...
If you've never seen #14 before, watch it. Now.
#13 gave me goosebumps...
Been a while since I've seen that vid...
I noticed they wussed out and had a three-way tie for #60.
I am glad that Hakeem's schooling of DRob did not make the cut.
That was sick...reminds me of the T-Mac game24. Pacers Defeat Knicks; Game 1, 1995, Eastern Conference Semifinals
Reggie Miller capped a 31-point game by scoring eight points over an 8.9-second span, wiping out a six-point Knicks lead and giving the Pacers a series-opening 107-105 win before a stunned MSG audience.
I agree..That was ugly..
That was the infamous choke sign game, right? e who?
I don't really understand why you are so convinced that Duncan's was more impressive...
Shaq had 7 more points, Duncan had 1 more assist. 7 pts>>>1 assist.
Furthermore...Shaq's was against a better team and more importantly, one of his defenders was a 2 time DPOY Center. While Duncan was going up against.........Jason Collins, and Kenyon Martin. It could be argued that Shaq's game came under more pressure as well since his team was trailing in their series...
And lastly, these moments are not intended to be statistically evaluated...they are based on memorability...while Duncan's near quad was talked about quite a bit at the time(moreso than Shaq's IIRC), it had several competeing storylines from the same game, courtesy of Duncan's own teamates...
David Robinson going out a champ in his final game for one...with a 17 rebound performance no less.
Stephen Jackson turning from Mr. Hyde back into Dr. Jeckyll and hitting 3 or 4 clutch 3's down the stretch.
There were no little subdramas competing with Shaq's performance.
I personally enjoyed Duncan's performance more, but I'd say Shaq's would have been the more impressive and memorable performance to the non biased fan. And statistically his was more impressive as well....7 pts >>>>> 1 assist, no matter how you slice it.
Last edited by whottt; 05-31-2006 at 03:30 PM.
I think Horry's overall performance was bigger and yeah, coming in a must win game on the road on the road, his shot was bigger as well....
But there is absolutely no doubt that Elliott's shot was the more difficult....and that's what makes his so memorable.
Context, more than anything else. A near quad in a clincher, as opposed to a near quad in a game that signalled the end of a series that had no real drama.
I don't disagree with your points (Mutombo v. Collins, etc.), and will readily admit to being a homer on this one -- at least in part. But whichever you put in front of the other, I don't see the 2 performances as being 10 spots apart from each other on a list like this one.
Man, Tim Duncan's Shot to Win Game 5 of the 2004 WCSF's should have been on that list... Cursed fate...
Why is Duncan's more impressive because it came in a series clincher?
The Nets were a freaking 49 win team...in actuallity the damn series shouldn't have even gone 6 games and likely wouldn't have had Pop not hated Steve Kerr preventing us from blowing double digit leads...
The Sixers were a much more impressive team than that Nets team...and IIRC Shaq's performance came on the road in Philly with his team down 0-1.
Duncan smashing a woefully inferior and over-matched team is not the same caliber as Shaq taking out a better team(record wise) on their own home court against a 2 time DPOY C.
I don't get that logic and I never have...
It's just like Spursfans making a big deal about AJ's shot against an 8 seed...
It's not a clutch shot, we were dominating the series...
In every playoff series ever played, someone on the winning team has hit the go ahead shot at some point, it is not clutch, it is not impressive, it is an inevitability.
The shots hit by Horry and Elliott OTOH, were last second shots that stole victory from the jaws of fefeat, in highly compe ive series the winner of which was in doubt...and I think you could say the same for Shaq's performance moreso than Duncan's.
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