4 down is a great play!

[Mavs<Spurs]

I think we should run 4 down every time.

AHF, comments?

[xcoriate]

I think we need to get back to it a little, not every time like we used to, but at least sometimes.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I think we need to get back to it a little, not every time like we used to, but at least sometimes.

It isn't a bad play. I actually do like it. Tim on the block can't be defended 1 on 1. We have 4 really good shooters to help spread the floor: Bonner, Finley, Manu and Bruce.


And it is AHF's least favorite play. He hates it. I think that he rues the day that it was invented.

[polandprzem]

In spurs system there is always a time fo 4-down no matter the play.
Almost everything goes throu Timmy.
But in todays basketball you rather want to quit on static 4-down. The thing that was pissing me of during this play is that other guys were just standing. We need more players movenment during that play. But it's a thread for December or so...

[Mavs<Spurs]

In spurs system there is always a time fo 4-down no matter the play.
Almost everything goes throu Timmy.
But in todays basketball you rather want to quit on static 4-down. The thing that was pissing me of during this play is that other guys were just standing. We need more players movenment during that play. But it's a thread for December or so...

I understand. It's the best play of all time.

[Mavs<Spurs]

A little humor to lighten the day.






Yes, it has drawbacks and you make good points. We probably agree that it is okay to run every once in a while, but not all the time because of the drawbacks (lack of player movement, very stagnant on offense, nothing going to the rim..., ).


Just having a little fun, that's all.

[clubalien]

If we move tim duncan to center I think we might nto end up using the 4 down play alot.

[v2freak]

It all starts with 4 down. See: '05 NBA Finals

I think the Spurs strayed from it last year, and I'd like to see more of it. There needs to be a balance though, isolation is not always effective

[Mavs<Spurs]

It all starts with 4 down. See: '05 NBA Finals

I think the Spurs strayed from it last year, and I'd like to see more of it. There needs to be a balance though, isolation is not always effective

I like and I think that the Spurs are at their best when they play inside out basketball. Tim Duncan is the best power forward to ever play the game and he is one of the best post players of all time. We have to take advantage of that.


Obviously 4down is not the only way that we can play inside out basketball, but it is one way. At times, it is helpful.

I don't like perimeter oriented teams. I agree with Pop when he says that he doesn't like a 3 if someone just heaves it up without anyone else touching the ball and without throwing the ball into Tim Duncan in the post.

Throwing it into Tim puts pressure on the defense. They almost have to double team him. When he kicks it back out, the shooter is normally more in rythym.

4 down does this.

I am being facetious when I say that we should run 4down every play. However, I do like it and would think that at certain times it can be very effective.

Even if we are not running 4 down, I think we have to play inside out basketball.

One of the reasons why Dallas lost is that they reverted back to being a very perimeter jumpshooting team as Avery admitted after their loss in game 6. Dallas moved into the elite team list when Dirk began to post up more and drive to the basket, especially when Devin, Jason and Josh also drove to the basket and didn't just settle for outside jumpshots all the time.

A team that relies too heavily on the perimter will have a hard time winning a series because they will have too many times when they are cold from the outside and they will feel the pressure more as a jumpshooting team.

[boutons_]

I'm ok with inside-out, I'm even better with Tim with the ball as playmaker/passer rather than trying to score nearly every time by himself.

I'm adamently against the way the Spurs most often run 4-down: Entry to Tim, then 4 Spurs stand around and watch Tim try to create something.

And Tim needs to have some fricking idea of what he wants to do as he catches the ball. He holds the ball way too long too often, the defense adjusts, rotates, doubles, whatever, and then he tries to force a dribble into the paint to get stripped, or takes one of the most gawdawful bricks, heaves, tosses, ball-shoves ever seen.

While EVERBODY wants rapid ball movement, the ball too often dies when it comes to Tim.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm ok with inside-out, I'm even better with Tim with the ball as playmaker/passer rather than trying to score nearly every time by himself.

I'm adamently against the way the Spurs most often run 4-down: Entry to Tim, then 4 Spurs stand around and watch Tim try to create something.

And Tim needs to have some fricking idea of what he wants to do as he catches the ball. He holds the ball way too long too often, the defense adjusts, rotates, doubles, whatever, and then he tries to force a dribble into the paint to get stripped, or takes one of the most gawdawful bricks, heaves, tosses, ball-shoves ever seen.

While EVERBODY wants rapid ball movement, the ball too often dies when it comes to Tim.

proper spacing means that if there is a strip, it came from a defender playing Tim 1 on 1. Sheed can do it, it was the only defense the Mailman ever played, but you're not going to stop Tim Duncan in the post 1 on 1 very often.

If there is proper spacing and Tim was doubled, then someone else is open and he can kick it out to that person. No strip.


Nobody advocates ballstopping. So, I agree that's a red herring or better a straw man opponent. No more littering of red herrings across the landscape, please.

1 or 2 dribbles when Tim is in the post will almost always draw the double which is one of the goals. Putting pressure on the defense is a good idea. Pressuring the defense to force them to double Tim and leave a shooter open is a good idea. The reason anybody else scores on our team is because of Tim Duncan. I hated to state the obvious.

Tim shoots a rather high percentage. You do like scoring, don't you?

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm ok with inside-out, I'm even better with Tim with the ball as playmaker/passer rather than trying to score nearly every time by himself.

I'm adamently against the way the Spurs most often run 4-down: Entry to Tim, then 4 Spurs stand around and watch Tim try to create something.

And Tim needs to have some fricking idea of what he wants to do as he catches the ball. He holds the ball way too long too often, the defense adjusts, rotates, doubles, whatever, and then he tries to force a dribble into the paint to get stripped, or takes one of the most gawdawful bricks, heaves, tosses, ball-shoves ever seen.

While EVERBODY wants rapid ball movement, the ball too often dies when it comes to Tim.

I also wanted to congratulate you on your recognition that the worst player on our team is Tim Duncan, especially when he has the ball.

That took unusual insight, very unusual.

[strangeweather]

In spurs system there is always a time fo 4-down no matter the play.
Almost everything goes throu Timmy.
But in todays basketball you rather want to quit on static 4-down. The thing that was pissing me of during this play is that other guys were just standing. We need more players movenment during that play. But it's a thread for December or so...

I agree:
Passing it in to Tim + motion and cutting without the ball = good basketball.
4 guys standing around watching Tim = bad basketball.

Done right, it's the best play we have when Bonner's on the court. We have two guys on the court who can receive the pass and take it to the basket, and two guys who can nail the open jumper on the missed rotation or double-team.